I was disappointed by this to be honest. The original annoucement included extensions to Manchester Airport and Guide Bridge. The route via Warrington was also to be included and revamped. After 3 years of silence this simple merge of Chat Moss and Huddersfield line appears... no reason to renew my subscription, that ran out this summer.
Same here. As was the case with the ATS Gemma project, there is also a deafening silence (so far at least) in terms of community scenarios for the merged line. (By contrast, the AP MML upgrade immediately attracted loads of scenarios.) On Manchester Airport: one cannot help wondering whether they killed that idea off in view of the recently announced ATS TSW route.
That is very interesting. I asked about it on the Facebook group and it was brushed away saying it was to complicated, too much work and I should be thankful for the Leeds-Liverpool merge.
That's not entirely accurate, there have been plenty of scenarios for GEMMA with the class 90, 321 etc. but the problem is there isn't the stock available to do modern day scenarios - need the 710/720/755s. I agree the TPE merge has been low key, and I got the impression from the stream that there isn't much enthusiasm to develop the route any further. That's just my thoughts - not based on fact.
That's a load of the word that the Sex Pistols were taken to court over; I don't have the route and was only passed the tracks.bin file to work with and had it back to the guy the day after. EDIT** tracks.bin file PLUS the track tiles
I think it's Leeds to Liverpool, because once you're in Liverpool why would you want to go anywhere else?
Hi, I am planning to download the route after the next update to hopefully fix a few ongoing issues. Fred
disappointed by Alan Thomson Simulation i was planning to get the route but i'm Not paying for £32.99 a subscription just to unlock this route Alan Thomson Paywall Simulation Next ATS Make This Route Free
You do realise that the £32.99 gives you much more than just the merged TPE route don't you? And do you really expect people's time and effort to put together the TPE merge to be done for free to provide you with something you want? I would say that makes you entitled.
I love the way people expect others to work for free. I know there are many who do create free things, but something like ATS has fixed costs that need to be met. It's a business. So instead of looking at the subscription as a £30 paywall, just think of it as the price of a route. While you have the subscription, it does also allow some really good discounts and access to other stuff you wouldn't otherwise have access to, and it lasts for a year, so if anything else comes out over the next 12 months, which is likely, you'll have access to that as well. I just take on out where there's stuff I need, and let it lapse when I don't. I'll be taking another one out for this probably, and I can guarantee you that it will not be the only thing I use it for, as I found it worthwhile the last two times I took out a sub there.
As merging routes (with matching origins) is pretty simple, and given that other merges (see Danny's work on the Steam Workshop for example) have been done as freeware the precedent would seem to have been set.
I expect several scenarios to be added to this route in due course. For me the route was free. I just happen to be an ATS subscriber at this point in time and am happy with their work. I have bought most of their purchasable scenario (WTT) packs and am pleased with them. Could I make them myself? Maybe. Do I have time to mess about with making my own Scenarios and Routes? I will when I retire. As of now I have disposable income, I do not smoke or drink. I am not happy with TSW5 so this is my choice. Respectfully
Looks like the Warrington section isn't used. I found a recent merge on the Workshop that merges Warrnigton Central to Leeds. Haven't downloaded it yet, but I suspect it uses Ordsall Lane Junction (the track exists in the Warrington route) to connect to Salford Crescent and on to Manchester Victoria to provide the merge. Since the Guide Bridge to Stalybridge portion is not on Steam (as far as I know), it would have to be custom done with the Piccadilly to Guide Bridge coming from the BR Blue route. I will have to look at that Workshop merge and see what it has. Benefit: it's free. We should be thankful to pay $42 USD as a "subscription" for an incomplete merge? And get instantly banned from the Facebook page for not being "thankful" for what we get.. I believe the person you were replying to already subscribed at one point and cleaned out everything he had access to. Therefore, for him to resubscribe would get him...this route. That's it. I can't blame him thinking it's not worth it. And this is why I always argued that the subscription model is a horrible one. I do hold out optimism that it will find a way to TSC, a la LIRR and our very complete Jamaica station there (hopefully without the lag), to give us the Manchester Piccadilly to Manchester Airport section onto at least the Warrington route (or even the Manchester to Huddersfield section since it uses Piccadilly instead of Victoria).
Not possible to connect Warrington Central to Manchester Victoria without a reversal. They are on two different lines in to Manchester.
So the Workshop merge had to go through Piccadilly, then? I wonder if the route is meant to allow for Piccadilly services through Victoria and onwards to Leeds since we don't have a representation of the Guide Bridge to Stalybridge section (well, we do, but it's in an ATS subware route to Huddersfield). EDIT: Yup, nailed it. So you either change ends at Oxford Road or continue to Piccadilly and retrace your steps. Or get the Huddersfield route from ATS and go that way. I wonder if that small segment can be copied in with Workshop-compatible scenery...
The Merge was to connect the ATS Chat Moss Route with the DTG Man Vic - Leeds route. Nothing to do with Warrington AFAIK there is no route by ATS from Manchester to Leeds
Manchester Victoria is part of Manchester. I know there is also the Manchester Stations to Huddersfield which connects both. The question is whether anyone will ever merge the merge with the Huddersfield route and thus add that portion of the route, which would in effect complete the route (if you ignore the missing Airport portion as someone could otherwise merge Stockport in). Otherwise the Workshop merge allows for services the back way from Piccadilly to Leeds. Not sure what scenery is like at Ordsall.
DTG have made the Man Victoria to Huddersfield & Leeds Route. I doubt that somebody would connect the DTG Liverpool - Warrington - Manchester line with a Freeware line to Stalybridge then another DTG route to Huddersfield & Leeds. What would be the point? And why would you also merge the Just Trains route in to all that to get to Stockport? None of the services from Liverpool & Manchester to Huddersfield and Leeds go thru Stockport.
There are services that come from Nottingham and go to the airport reversing from Piccadilly. I think Liverpool also runs services that way, and I believe services also go around Piccadilly with termini north and south of there. So yes, there would be a point to connect to Stockport if someone felt like doing the ECML thing with it, but it is probably better served with scenarios across multiple routes. There is an OTS map after Leeds to York, as well. And yes, I doubt anyone will merge Manchester Stations to Huddersfield to add the Piccadilly path (which is also a Liverpool to Leeds service, not all of them go via Chat Moss) unless it's available on ATS as a subware option alongside that route. If someone ever takes on the track addition without the ATS scenery and redoes that, however, that would be one way, but again there has to be someone willing to do that who wants to run those services.
You information about railway services in the UK is totally WRONG. [1] There are No services from Nottingham to Manchester Airport - never have been. [2] The services from Nottingham normally start at Norwich and run via Sheffield and Manchester to Warrington Central and Liverpool. [2] ALL Liverpool - Manchester - Leeds - York services run via Chat Moss & Manchester Victoria.NON run via Warrington Central.
I do remember looking at timetables from 1994 and seeing Nottingham as a terminus in multiple entries, so they go somewhere in the area. I am also pretty sure I've seen Liverpool-Leeds services through Piccadilly. It doesn't have to be a service that runs today to be valid. If I wasn't due somewhere shortly, I'd take a look, so I can investigate further when I get home.
I think Cyclone is following the internet rule: How do you get the right answers? Not by asking the right questions, but by posting the wrong answer. (As people are more likely to give a valid reply when they can set something straight )
I presume you realise that because trains terminated at Nottingham does not put them anywhere near the route this thread is about? GET A MAP of the UK Railways.
I had the wrong terminus. Newcastle is what I meant. See page CE18 from September 1994 as an example, 1M47, the 13:14 from Newcastle. So I had the wrong terminus city. But trains do run through Warrington Central between Leeds and Liverpool, which the 13:14 (1M47) from Newcastle proves. Middlesborough three columns over runs to Manchester Airport. There are many other examples like this, and this would be why running to Stockport on the other line (Hope Valley), would be a suitable addition leaving only to add the Airport branch currently being worked on graphically in TSW. The point is that it's possible if someone figures out the merge. Will it happen? Who knows, but it's usable. Maybe one day Wilmslow will be possible en route to Crewe, but I have doubts that connects to Leeds and Liverpool services to make it viable.
Not at all. It's still on Hope Valley. I am aware there is another line to the west that connects to the Airport. The Stockport line would be more for AI purposes.
Stockport isn't in the Hope Valley; it may be part of the Hope Valley extension to JT's Midland Main Line but so is Man Picc... Stockport is totally irrelevant if you want a route to go to Manchester Airport.
Once again you are showing you ignorance of the UK Rail system. [1] Yes in 1994 trains from Newcastle ran via Piccadilly & Warrington to Liverpool. Today it goes via Manchester Victoria and the Chat Moss line via Newton-le-Willows to Liverpool Lime st https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C43446/2024-11-18 Which is the point of the ATS Merge and This Thread - or did you forget that bit when going off at a tangent? [2] Trains from Middlesborough ran, and still do, to Manchester Airport. [3] Never has a service from Leeds and beyond ran to Stockport instead of Manchester Airport. Finally the merge of these routes with the Hope Valley line would not happen as it does not make any sense.
So my point was ATS seem to have done half a job and moved this work over to their new TSW route. I am hoping they come back and add in the Boston/Hope Valley Airport (Manchester )
What are you arguing about? My point was that services do exist that could use a merge of Piccadilly between Leeds and Liverpool. I suggested adding to Stockport for AI purposes, and obviously the airport route would be scratch from the yard (the yard is included in Hope Valley, hence the suggestion of a merge). I don't get why you are trying to suggest someone is ignorant when logical reasons for such a merge exist. Like I said, "the service does not have to run today to be valid".
So this thread is about the Chat Moss Route merging with the Manchester Victoria to Leeds route. That required the ATS Route and the DTG - Payware route so that is two routes to purchase To add the section from Liverpool via Warrington to Piccadilly would add a third Payware route The section from Piccadilly to Stalybridge is a Freeware route and it would need modifying to merge. Assuming the Author was agreeable. There is no point in adding the Stockport section - a fourth Payware route - if it is just for AI.
Correct, on the third route and a freeware route for the Piccadilly-Stalybridge. Though my idea was adding Guide Bridge from BR Blue initially, but using the freeware would work too since it would need to be consulted anyway. And again, if the author is amicable. I only suggested adding the JT Route because we would need the Longsight yard, If that were used, we would have Hope Valley as a requirement already, hence why I said add a little more for AI use since we won’t have scenarios that way. If the yard is done from scratch, then sure, the requirement can be nixed.
Have you checked that those routes that oh-so-easily merge together in your head are actually compatible?
