Excuse For Dtg Not To Produce Longer Routes.

I was thinking, don't we have drones now? Is there any software that can use drones to scan the ground data of the route in all directions and then import it into a computer? Then the developer can use this data to correct the route.

 

So, once a year we're treated to a route from JT, made with passion, care and dedication.

For the rest of the year we'll get routes from DTG and its other partners, mediocre at best with some simply unfinished with incomplete timetables and replete with floating scenery and trains crashing into cars at grade crossings among other deficits and a general lack of attention to detail.


But we're expected to pay pretty much the same price for both?

Not a happy future methinks.

 

All these incidents can only be blamed on DTG. Why can't DTG provide good development software (efficient and intelligent).

 

With DTG their routes aren’t always terrible, there is however, always little gems now and then, take GOBLIN, Semmering and Salzburg - Rosenheim for example, arguably great routes.

but it’s definitely apparent they slip behind sometimes, like what happened with WCML S.

 

Comparing it to ECML is pointless as it came as part of TSW4. People do want this as is clearly evident by the fact that it's being made.

It's had a successful stream which followed months of great previews and communication and genuine excitement. It'll sell incredibly well because people who don't like the 1980s can just spawn newer stuck and blast a 390 up there for example.

 

If there’s a mod to reduce gamma exposure in TSW then I’d be all for that, but let’s be honest it wouldn’t look as realistic as TSC lightening. I blame UE4 for that. It excels in the lightening department for other AAA games, but not for this game IMO.

 

I would love longer routes. It's all about the tech I suppose

 

I would say that is very unfair, I would not describe DTG routes as mediocre at best. Their quality has improved of late, WCMLS aside.

Yes there are issues but I would not describe them as mediocre. I am managing to enjoy most of their content anyway.

 

I think ats will be doing this with longer routes. I have a feeling this will happen.

 

Fly a drone too obviously along rail lines and around stations in the US, you're likely to get a visit from grim-faced men in dark suits.

 

Relevance??

 

It still costs the same to develop it so you have to account for those costs as well, not only quality. Otherwise, you would have really short routes with 1 train but high quality and paid at a premium

 

Drones won’t work, will never work. And will never be used probably on TSW routes. The best option is being there in person.

 

Makes no sense to me. Perhaps someone could translate it for you.

 

Goblin was amazing, so like the real thing.

 

still livid how they just asked Rivet for help with this route.

I know we are really living in a different world now we could say. But did they have the proper time when they did WCML route to Brimingham back in TSC but then say nah just end at Milton Keynes now in TSW due to just the lack of time they have? Like if they did TSC why would it be more stressful when doing the TSW version? It really feels just like an excuse to just say "out of scope" and really feels like everything feels so disconnected in TSW without these long routes unlike TSC.

 

it was honestly a terrible decision. DTG definitely, for now at least, learnt their lesson trusting a third party, who can’t even do a UK route properly to do something as anticipated as WCML S,

And I don’t care if I’m slandering rivet once again, the truth is, they’ve completely lost their trust in this community.

in terms of the Leven branch, they seemed to have changed the 170s PIS, which is good, but I’m really not holding my breath, I’m preparing for disappointment, as I have with every one of rivets products.

 

TSW routes take longer to make than TSC ones because there's more detail has to go into them with things like the vegetation etc. There's also a lot more setup and work required for stations, hence station count being a factor of route length in TSW and not TSC, and there's also a full 24hr timetable to make.

 

It’s not illegal though if you have green/neutral zones. Always check the app first.
I fly my drone over rail way lines all the time. If there’s no flight restrictions on my app then it’s perfect fine. Plenty of stations too I could’ve taken my drone up.

 

then.. honestly why not do the same thing with WCML:S. Just that they don't ask for Rivet for help with anything and let said another party to manage the scenery and etc. Would that be a problem solve? That is if said another party can spare time to help DTG that is.

 

?
I was replying to your comment about it only going to Milton Keynes. Them hiring an external dev or doing it all in-house wouldn't change that. It'll have been decided to only go to MK from the start.

 

Rivet weren't the only ones involved. They've also helped on other DTG routes. People seem to forget that, almost as if Rivet has become some sort of scapegoat.

This constant Rivet bashing is getting a bit old.

 

Old, yet also true, And they’ve dug it themselves, the community wouldn’t be as hostile towards them if they just addressed and fixed their issues. It’s understandable why people are so upset by them.

 

I understand you Jack, but they don't listen to the community and do updates to improve their routes. Don't give 2 flying F's.

 

Like, don’t get me wrong, they can do solid routes sometimes, IOW 2022 and Bernina were not too bad, but they just really let themselves down, with a lot of things.

 

I understand that, but it doesn’t need throwing around everywhere. I'm not defending them, they definitely can do better.

But almost every sentence I've read lately includes some sort of disdain towards them or comparison to others.

I don't understand the obsession in pointing out their shortcomings all the time, it's just weird.

 

In my opinion, for rivet, they should stick to the small stuff, or what they do best.



Bernina line was okay, I think was a generally acceptable route, maybe they could go down the path of focussing on Swiss content, rather than UK, find better life there. There needs to be someone doing Swiss routes, since Bernina, there has been none. Rivet could be great at filling the void.

 

ah i see- still its just not a good run on WCML when it only goes up to MK. I would rather play the TSC version over the TSW.

 

I am still convinced TSW 3+ lighting is designed by someone whose experience of the world is staring directly into the sun from dawn to dusk every day.

 

Haha yes, that’s a pretty good comparison.
Either that or they spend most of their life in hot country, where the sun is always shining brightly and that’s all they’ve ever known.
By the time TSW6 releases we will all have to be wearing sunglasses to play the game

 

Up to a point that is true but it's a myth about scenery; there is just as much detail placement in current TSC routes, often more in fact such as animated trackside gangs and working diggers etc. The only difference being the the TSW ones are more high res and detailed. But both assets have to be physically placed on the map. Also don't forget the TSC routes are often longer so that balances things out a bit. Another thing TSC yards are always more populated with rolling stock than TSW ones are, and scenarios are designed to take advantage of this fact.
Perhaps a good example is the upcoming route and train being built by Incredible Trains which is solely one talented guy on his own. The fact that he can not only build a detailed route in what seems to be London (not exactly an easy subject with just empty fields), but also building his own train as well. This seems to explode the myth that longer routes are not possible because of time constraints, even with a team of multiple people.
In fact to me it's more likely profit related, in other words get 2 dlc out for sale instead of one.

 

Static stock, in TSW at least, is placed during timetable creation, not route building.

 

Hence building a TSC route takes a lot of time, yet we routinely have routes longer than TSW. If they can do it....

Look at what the guy at Incredible is doing solo, not only what appears now to be a route set in London hence with very detailed scenery, but also building a train to run on it as well. Rather raising a big question mark about TSW's lack of longer routes. Bit of a myth really, it's got more to do with selling 2 dlc instead of one.

 

Same with TSC, albeit scenario creation.

 

You just keep telling yourself the same things over and over. Matt talked about scope regarding ECML in this very thread and it's like you didn't even read it. The commercial prospects for a one-man studio are just not the same as DTG, who have to pay a bunch of salaries and overhead for the entire franchise while ensuring the codebase doesn't collapse as more and more DLC gets bolted on.

Yes, these are problems of their own creation, to be fair, but it DOES explain why they can't spend 12+ months creating one route like JT, or the Incredible guy (which, again tbf, we've no idea whether it'll be good or not yet as we haven't seen it)- they'd go broke under their current business model!

I guess i don't even understand why it's still a controversy at this point- there's now a fairly robust 3rd-party dev scene for TSW- let's let them all cook- maybe there's the 150-mile route of everyone's (or at least some people's) dreams coming sooner rather than later?

 

1) We don't know how long till it releases
2) The thread for his London route was started in May, but we don't know how long he'd been devving it
3) We don't know what the scope is.

 

Even if placing static stock in TSC was somehow inherently more advanced and time-consuming than it is in TSW, which, as we can gather from the quote below, it isn't...

...then it still wouldn't matter at all, because placing static stock takes up an incredibly small portion of the time spent on timetable creation, let alone of that spent on the entire route.

 

Let's go back to the original question, what can we do to help DTG develop longer routes efficiently? The premise is that there will be no additional development costs and no additional developers. For example, if a US freight route with a route length of 300 miles (already approved) is developed, everyone can express their opinions and views. Note that the development time is three months (including testing time).

 

It's on the roadmap now.
London Overground with Class 378 and VERY detailed London scenery
He likely has a job outside this.
You don't want longer drives?

 

Do you have to be so aggressive?

It's really not that complicated, of course DTG could build longer routes but if they did they would sell for a similar price. Hence it makes more sense for them to build 2 shorter routes in the time that it would take to build one longer route and make near on double the money.
I don't really care what Matt said, it's basic economics and obviously he's talking from the side of the company that makes that profit. Don't be so gullible.
If they built longer routes and charged a bit more for them then not so much dlc would need to be "bolted on" would it?
I don't think you'd find a person on this forum, excepting a few DTG apologists, that wouldn't want to see WCMLS go to Rugby. GWR go to Oxford and,ECML go to York. All of these would have been achievable if they slowed down their dlc [EDIT - Jan - Inappropriate] a bit.

 

I agree DTG do farm out dlc’s far too quickly and make a burden for themselves, prime example being WCMLS, the time they’ve finished fixing that with all the extra man hours there’s not going to be much profit left!
Also many of the routes are unnecessarily short too, like the examples you mentioned with weird starting or finishing places.
I’d like to see less dlc but with longer routes and better, more consistent quality.

 

I think it's a no brainer that we need longer routes because I can't imagine any right minded train enthusiast wanting to end their Class 390 run from Euston at MK without even a stop.
[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]
Of course DTG can do that and make a profit.

 

Where has the 387 been confirmed? How do you know it's very detailled?
Also, I really don't appreciate it when people twist my words to make an argument or put words in my mouth.

 

Actually, I was having an online conversation with a TSC/TSW route builder via social media. Drones could help with the manual collection and interpretation of images right now. Network Rail would not be able to stop a Drone operator flying it within legal heights adjacent to their permanent way.
In the near future Drones could actually be very useful at cutting out much of the manual adaption of the environment next to railways but the AI tech isn't there yet.

 

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]

 

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]

 

And what was it about?

 

Just some people getting unnecessarily angry and throwing insults at each other. But nice of Jan to unlock the thread