Excuse For Dtg Not To Produce Longer Routes.

In the constructive spirit, after browsing through the JT manual for WCML over Shap, I have to say the one route DTG made that stands out as too short, is PFR. Completely illogical start point at the south end and indifferent end point at the north end. WCMLOS only serves to reinforce that PFR should have allowed us to drive all the way from Derby to Manchester. Imagine if JT had started their route at Lancaster (or even worse Carnforth), ended at Penrith and not bothered putting a significant proportion of the timetable services on the Morecambe branch!

 

Route length isn’t important to me.

The single biggest thing for me is quality, quality, quality. I don’t expect perfection, but I certainly expect a very strong effort. More JT like content, less Rivet like content.

The problem with DTG is that they are seriously inconsistent when it comes to quality. When DTG does a great job, I’m really impressed. It’s just a shame this isn’t always the case.

 

And that they start and finish logically, as I said above. Yes there are instances such as TVL, NTP, even SoS should have gone on further but as they stand still provide a sensible start and finish point. PFR does not. Same could be said for Rivet with Bernina,what on earth possessed them to start the route at Ospizio?

 

Yes, I would agree with that. Starting and finishing in the middle of nowhere is a bit odd and just doesn’t feel as fun as starting or finishing at a terminus/major station.

 

What route is PFR mate?

 

I have an Ice Cream shop, we only sell Vanilla Ice Cream
If you want to buy Ice Cream its got to be vanilla
There's no other shops, if you want to buy Ice Cream

Everyone loves vanilla ice cream, we sell tons every day.

 

Peak Forest. Started at Ambergate where the line branches from the MML but it was never a major station and most express services didn’t call there. Around 8 miles would have brought them into Derby. Other end they finished at Chinley where the Hope Valley joins. Slightly more trains called there but still not all and around 20 miles would have taken the route into Manchester. Obviously the top end would have entailed more work but there was really no excuse for not going to Derby and when the project was whiteboarded the emphasis should have been given on linking two major cities with the lovely scenic section in the middle.

 

Ahh yes I get you now, not got that tho been told it looks like a great route. Not a fan of Bad Start and end points.

 

Kinda gutted they ain't extending MML as it is a really good route but just not longer enough.
This game is missing a route to give the Class 43 HST a really long run but we just seem to have 30 minute runs and its like why are we not getting any big routes.
Hoping JT do a BR HST Route in the future and I know they would give us a long hour and a bit run.

 

I see a pattern when it comes to route length and quality. Look at pfr. It's a fairly short route and hardly any traffic and the quality is above standard. Goblin line, again short with little traffic above standard.
Wcml not really long but longer than the others, really busy timetable (not finished) and a complete mess!
Conclusion... dtg just don't allow enough dev time for routes these days.
Not for UK content anyway.

 

An Exeter to Plymouth route in BR era would be perfect for this!

 

YES! Be a great route that would be!

 

Even as far as Newton Abbott with the Paignton and Kingswear branches would be great.

 

I wonder if internally they already knew steam development was being cancelled and just tried to cut their losses. I'm not particularly bothered by route length, but PFR was certainly an odd route all-around. That being said, i did like the ambience and atmosphere despite not being a huge steam fan myself. I still hope we see that 104 pack and updated timetable someday.

 

Still holding on tightly to the hope steam development is paused rather than stopped and I wish someone at DTG would clarify this once and for all. I just want to know if we can hope or completely move on from it.

 

You're making a strawman argument though. No one said it was impossible or even super difficult, just that fewer controls was more convenient to a controller....which you just admitted. By saying that it's easier to use a keyboard (which very very few of console owners have), it made the case that EMUs are more suitable to console players. It's not like the whole phenomenon of simpler controls for console is a new concept just for TSW so I'm not sure why it's some huge point of debate. Anyone who has played the same game on PC and console has seen the difference first hand. I didn't say EMUs are terrible or inferior either, just different.

 

*points to*

What do you think? Is it a good pick?

 

Its been mentioned, more than once, on multiple streams by Alex and Matt, that DTG are currently not working on, or planning on working on any content for steam. The only content that theoretically could feature steam in the future (although none is currently on the roadmap) would be from third party developers. Given that DTG have also said that steam did not sell to expectations, that also might be a factor that a third party developer would decide not to do steam, they have far too much to lose.

 

This would be my next wish for JT. Riviera Line Exeter to Plymouth and also Paignton. Both Class 50 and HST (Blue and Intercity). About 50 miles total I think, so they could also add the Exmouth branch, perfect for the Skipper Pacer!

 

Steam is dead in TSW. I doubt we’ll see anything new, unless a third party developer gets simugraph to work properly with steam.

 

Your wording on the previous post seems to indicate otherwise.

Not exactly more or less suitable as it takes only one button to change the braking mode.

Maybe another time.

 

For me it is such a shame, I really enjoy the current steam locos and really want more to be made. I know Trainz simulator is more of an arcade sim but I am looking forward to that coming to Xbox because I know there will be much more choice for steam on their DLCs.

 

Is all this debate just for entertainment? Is there any way to make DTG simulation faster, better and more professional?

 

Is see a lot of people here saying: "route length is the most important for me, so a long route will sell really well" "no quality is the most important". I don't really agree here.

Some were wondering why Kassel-Würzburg or the LGV were the most played route. Well simply because of what trains are included.
The TGV is one of the most known train ever and is present in 7+ countries. Of course a DLC with it is going to sell well even if the quality isn't there. The forums are just a really small part of the playerbase and absolutely not representative of what players really want. We are here because we love the game, of course we are going to critic it way more than others.

Sometime all people want is just a train that they recognize and love from real life and just simply drive it without anything else.

 

When talking about routes length, I think one notion should not be overlooked : « le voyage », that is traveling, and the associated romanticism. That's why there is always something special about night trains, or L'Orient Express, etc.
Maybe a sort of merge function, like portals linking adjacent routes would one day be the solution, as there is more and more content available.
I love the feeling of having no limits, as in Flight Simulator where you can do Paris – New-York if you want to.
I personaly don't often drive the Caledonian Sleeper in TS, and when I do, it's almost never the full ride to Fort William, but just having the possibility to do it, I think it's great !

 

Maybe upskill yourself and get a job at DTG?

Matt gave several posts on the reasons why routes aren't extended to where ever and yet loads of folk just ignore them, literally in the same thread. You can't please all of the people all of the time.

 

I have often thought the same when people asked why DTG 'stopped' doing French routes after only one or when the next one is due. I always reckoned that DTG have never actually done a French route metaphorically speaking - they did a TGV route because the TGV is a contender for the most recognisable train. The fact that it was in France was coincidental, so to speak.

 

It's not a surprise that they keep focused on the countries where railfan is a common thing (namely UK, US, germanic countries and Japan).
You can take a look at the production of model trains, it overlaps.
And as for the LGV, one could say it's one of the most "british line" in France (remember the London – Avignon Eurostar), the other one being Bourg-Saint-Maurice in the Alps.

 

There are a lot of French railway magazines... someone in France must be buying them.

Is it the case that people mainly buy routes from their own country? As a Brit I actually enjoy the German content more. I've not always got much from British routes - perhaps because I know many of the British routes very well already and I can spot the compromises and imperfections. At Peterborough I was even annoyed that my favourite cafe wasn't there and signage was in the wrong place. You can know stuff too well.

I'd definitely buy a good French route - it was such a shame the TGV route was so poorly done and didn't involve the more interesting coastal section towards Nice. There are several good commuter routes out of Marseilles that are interesting too. North near Calais there are several routes familiar to British rail fans... the beautifully restored St.Omer station (think palace rather than station) would look fantastic in TSW and is on a part-time TGV route.

 

Same with Steam, and US Freight it has been explained why they currently are not making them

. But again if it's not an answer people like they seem to ignore it. Or can't accept it.

 

I agree with strange terminus' it is one of my pet peeves. But they have done better the last couple of years.

As an alternate to long routes what if they made say a part 2. With route hopping it could be a way to do it.

Examples: ECML-Kings Cross to Peterborough. WCML-Milton Keynes to Birmingham. Kassel to Mannheim.

But you would have to spread out the releases so that there would be variety for all users still. One every year and a half or so.

But I would like that. Or even more commuter lines for ones we already have so you can make mutiple runs on the network.

I love being able to go from Worchester to Providence, or Lancaster to San Bernardino, now.

 

Yes, there's a lot of expensives magazines about railway here. But you cannot find them everywhere, and not all of them.
With few people that are ready to spend much money for their hobby, you have a market...

 

At least with US freight I can always rebuttal into ways DTG could implement them into commuter routes an such.

Or ways to maximize efforts on existing stock.

 

With regard to French routes, well we know that SNCF are troublesome now as regards licensing. Wonder what the situation is with FS though, Italian State Railways? In terms of a line on the Med there was a lovely old route east out of San Remo that hugged the Riviera along to Genoa. Fairly certain I recall seeing a cab ride of it on YT. Though much of it now closed and realigned that would hit a real sweet spot with many I’m sure.

 

dtg have explained only they are able to fix steam since it's a lot of core elements and simulation

 

Maybe some of us simply don't believe those answers, rather than ignoring them.

In the case of US freight, for example, there are several ways DTG could resume production. In fact they have added some freight services to existing routes which they were not doing before.

Maybe they will resume route production using existing catalog stock, again something which they seem unwilling to do at present.

 

It would be nice if they fixed it and didn't leave a huge and important chunk of railway history out of their plans and leave what little they have made not working properly.

If they can't fix it, then that is another issue.

 

All the new routes seem to include steam railtour services. If they were really that embarrassed by their steam locos why would they continue to include them on those?

What I think they should do is go back to basics, scrap the firing mode idea for now so it is just purely driving (and the firing/physics taken care of in the background) and make more locos to that template. I think that would satisfy most who want more steam.

I am not a game dev though so all of the above may be completely impractical as things stand though!

 

In another thread, Matt [EDIT: Lukas] explained that heretofore they have avoided routes in Baden-Wurttemburg because the BaWu state government, alone among the German Lander, charged exorbitant rates for geodata. That has now changed, and routes to Mannheim, or the Hollental etc, are now feasible.

 

firstly its not 387 but 378
secondly it's the Overground lines of London that he is doing
thirdly we already have the 710 and aside from freight nothing else runs on the Overground except the 378
Would you care to bet money against it?

Creation Sharing - London | Dovetail Games Forums

 

Just wanted to ask Matt and Genuine question, I understand with all the realistic constraints it makes the job a bit more difficult.
But if Theoretically you didn't have any time constraints and you had lots of time, would it be possible to do London Euston to Birmingham New Street?
WCML is much better now with all the updates and much more enjoyable as it isn't as laggy and barely any frame rate loss.

 

"BUT I WANT IT!"

Everything that isn't what I "want" is a "conspiracy."

 

It doesn't take a game dev to continue to make what they were making before.
It's the question of is there enough demand to justify new development, and will the purists not attack it again?

Railtours they can use content already made (which they aren't embarrassed about and costs nothing) to make a few people happy without drawing the wrath of the purists for creating a new "abomination."

I still think it boils down to sales, but can we PLEASE not have another thread turn into a Steam argument?

It's valid only because it's "similar" to the longer routes thing.
They both don't have enough return on investment to make economic sense.

But people don't want to hear that so they assume there are "conspiracies" out there.

No, it's just how businesses run and assumptions based on personal desire are often wrong.

Just because "Bob" the player wants X thing, doesn't mean that "everyone really wants the same thing."
Often they don't.
So it doesn't sell.
Then "Bob" gets mad and says it's some outlandish conspiracy to deprive him of what he wants.

It applies across the game.
It's a big part of why I started the Autism thread. Being neurally atypical is often related to a strong focus on personal desire and less ability to read the social cues of others. I don't think it's an intentional intent to be confrontational or selfish... it's just not being as able to relate to other people and see things from their perspective. They aren't bad people... just very focused on what they want to the exclusion of others.

 

I don't think it's gonna happen tbh. Not dtg in house routes anyway! 50 odd miles is the limit, maybe the occasional longer A-B high speed route with bland scenery.

It makes sense to churn out 50 miles at 30 odd quid. 100 miles at 30 odd quid doesn't make no sense.

Wcmls for example. Euston to Milton Keynes seems short but with the dc lines it's a lot of track for the money.
I can see it going further in the future but not as a extension. Another route using route hop for sure. People will buy it for 30 quid undoubtedly.
They wouldn't buy euston to Birmingham for anymore than 30 quid though.

 

Nothing is stopping them extending it every 50 miles or so. They have that "route hopping" so they'd just say "hop to the next one at the next station."

 

I would personally pay more for longer routes, if WCML had gone to New Street or Wolverhampton, whether I'm in the minority I don't know.

We were having similar conversations in the early TSC days but we ended up in the end with Waterloo to Portsmouth, Euston to New Street and Victoria to Dover, so maybe in the future who knows.

If extensions were more viable that would solve the problem.

 

DTG has said there's no stomach for most people paying that much or more for longer routes.
Proving that wrong would be the hurdle to get over.
I've suggested crowd funding or preorders as a way to prove interest, but people have been against that and want DTG to "make the first move", invest all the money and take all the risk. Doesn't seem fair to me, but it is what it is.
It wouldn't be just $60 either since they already have 90-100 mile routes. "Longer" than that would be more like 200 miles...which wouldn't be twice the normal... it'd be 4 times the normal so more like $120.
That's a BIG investment and there aren't a lot of people willing to shell out that kind of money.
But you could try to prove them wrong.

 

I would be genuinely curious to see sales figures for WCML Shap.

 

That's always how capitalism works. Producers float a product or an idea to consumers, raise the flag to see how many will salute and at what price. Producers make the investment, take the risk. Sometimes it succeeds, sometimes not. Market research can help them choose what to make.