A fictional route with fictional trains (like SCR on Roblox), I personally wouldn't mind as long as the route is at least minimally realistic so you can believe exists in real life BUT the route would have to be free or really really cheap, there's no way I'd spend more than €5. So it should be done by a third party because I can't see DTG doing a free route.
It's funny how much love the Forza Horizon games get on this forum in other threads, when those racing games have Hot Wheels and Lego addons.
From my perspective, it wouldn't actually be too difficult to fill in the blanks based on design principles of the era, of simular trains. With the train not existing.. only having been a concept, it allows you to technically have more freedom on how the design is carried out, rather than having to beholden to every bit of little design detail of a reference. Audio, of course, is the biggest nightmare. Because there ISNT any audio of it that exists. However, you can definitely remix audio from other trains to make it semi-believable. At the end of the day, because the train doesn't actually exist. It would probably be judged off of how believable and how fun it is to drive.. rather than how accurate it is to the source material if there even is any substantial amount to judge it off of.
I think designing a new train or loco from scratch sounds rather fun. You can make it as quirky as you like, extra powerful with a silly horn, or sleek and swish. The world's your oyster for the creative one who can do such things. Fictional routes too, built to your own specifications. I'd be interested if the price point was right and game play good.
Thing is Forza Horizon isn't really a racing sim, it's a hybrid between hardcore simulators and more arcade style driving games. I would actually say it's closer to Derail Valley if trying to compare it to a train sim. The fairer comparison to TSW as far as racing games go would be something like Assetto Corsa or iRacing, and I don't think either of them have ever really done such DLCs. Flight Sim also comes to mind, but then the few cases they have done fictional content has been as freebies. Which I take as Microsoft thinking there isn't much of a audience willing to pay for such additions.
In Flight Sim's case it's going to be tied in with marketing deals. But also there's the crucial benefit that you don't need to charge money for a Dune DLC if those Dune fans have to buy Flight Sim or even better when you're a publisher as big as MS, a Game Pass sub to play it. You make the money in terms of extra sales and subscriptions, especially the subscriptions that don't get cancelled.
Well yeah, they do make money, but my point was just that Microsoft don't think customers would pay specifically for just a tie-in aircraft in the same way they do for Local Legends, and what not. It's not like that's just some blanket thing that's true of all tie-ins, I don't believe those Forza addons were freebies for example.
Pretty sure in the case of the Flight Sim DLCs, in each case, the money that exchanged hands will have been Paramount and Warner Bros respectively paying Asobo a bunch of money from their marketing budget to fund tie-ins to promote their respective films (Top Gun and Dune) Whereas with Forza Horizon, it's more your usual licensing deal for a tie-in of something which has cars. So there's an actual expectation of sales meaning they need to deliver a substantial amount of game content for the money.
I don't think it's a terrible idea, I think the key is a sympathetic fiction kept in the realm of a 'what if' basis in this reality. Take this image for instance, I found it on a FB group; Clearly photoshopped but It's not totally outlandish and could exist. Looks similar to the tandem Traxx model proposed for India; Or something like what this guy Karl Saiz did, made his own for a personal project, the Br 179; Even making his own version of the Taurus cab car; Even if it is another 66, make it like an AC powered version, with a pantograph and all the trimmings. A Do-Do configuration? Yes please. Or even the coveted (by me) double blunt 91... Double yes please! A mk3 cab car? I think you get the picture, there's plenty of ideas to go with.
Not really interested in fictional content overall. That being said I wouldn't turn down a Railway Series accurate Island of Sodor route that were true to all of Rev. Awdry's original notes, maps, etc. Licence would probably cost an arm and a leg though!
in my personal opinion, the nature of any simulator is to represent the real world, fictional trains would totally break this essence of being a simulator we are not talking about gta where everything is a satire of the real world but rather a simulator that aims to be faithful to the real world as it is so my answer is definitely no to fictional trains
One of the concepts I was looking into very much was Indian and Russian styled locomotives. The concepts below are quite interesting to think about!
not a bad suggestion, especially if it was made by someone who really understands the technical aspects of real locos... so they could pretty much "develop" a loco that doesnt exist... yet... like a loco they would love to drive if it existed
Fictional as in "what if X got implemented" or depictions of prototype units is fine provided they're done to a high standard, and can prove very interesting. Fictional as in "pulled out of their butts" is a hell no. I can close my eyes and dream of fictional stuff all day long.
No thanks, it is a Sim so it needs to be as close to real as possible without being GTA or Fortnite. I can accept an Taurus and IC coaches in OBB red replacing RJ services but I would not want an entire fictive train or stupid livery in my game.
That's only because DTG can't/won't get a license for other freight brands. They have a limited license for Freightliner which allows anything up to the green liveries which are being phased out, so a Class 57, 70, 86 or 90 could be on the cards if they slightly backdate the routes or use artistic license with the time period. GBRF have Class 73s (the locos that should have come with the RHTT pack), 69s, 57s, 92s, 60s, and 99s (not the MS Al Andalus Express) coming soon. DC Railfreight have 60s and 56s. And, of course, DB themselves had 59s up until recently, along with 60s and 90s, and even now they have a handful of Class 92s in service. I think there could be a place for trains that almost existed. The Class 424 could be quite interesting, but would be hard to do because of how few photos exist. If they really want to play it safe, there was a prototype Class 170 with a layout closer to the Class 172s that was never put into production. I think the Jet Train would get a pass because of how silly it is. It's easy to ignore, but like the Super Class 47 it's so funny it's hard to not like it.
I did manage to find these on the SREMG website (the closeup of the dash is from Dawlish Trains). Could possibly the only photograph in existence that shows the saloon. They only ever did one car (note the class 73 in the background of the middle pic btw), so still very much open to interpretation. Apparently South Eastern were interested but of course ultimately went with completely new units (is this the unit that killed off the SR tradition of taking parts off retired trains and putting them on new ones?).
Yeah, I'm decidedly in the minority on the forum. Not sure that's player-wide since most aren't on the forum and prefer things the forum seems to abhor though. I think a good compromise would be to keep the "fictional" stuff in it's own packages. Fictional trains only on fictional routes. If you don't want it... don't buy it. Other games have taken this route, and people that don't like it don't buy it. Meanwhile, others get to enjoy a taste of what they want even if licensing/research issues can't be resolved. It gives dev teams a chance to have some fun and try out new things too. I don't really see the arguments against things "being in TSW" that act as if it's one monolithic, integrated product. It's not though. Each route is a distinct product that only crosses over if there happens to be a layer. (Free roam is entirely up to you too) Meanwhile, a Rivet route is different from a Just Trains route so they aren't at all the same thing. Long story short, if you're going to go "fictional" I'd keep all of your "fictional" stuff in specific routes that are entirely fictional. Inspired by real world yes, but clearly labeled as a creative exercise. If you want to do "generic wild west theme route" or "generic magic railroad that goes to wizard college, halloween land and north pole" or "island of talking trains" or even "generic Chinese city" then go for it. Just make it clear it's NOT a real place. You can't claim something clearly fictional "isn't realistic."
Yes, those are the only photos I've seen too. It's interesting how similar the interior is to the 458/5s, since the seats are the same and the layout is close. The Southern Region tradition of reusing parts wasn't a great one. Each 442 needed a 4REP to be scrapped to be built since they reused parts from 4REPs. Some of the parts were so old that by the end of the 442's life there were parts that were approaching 100 years old. It didn't help that each 442 was different in some way which meant maintaining them was a pain in the backside.
I mean... two fantastical routes already exist in TSW..... I mean if you're going to complain about not being immersive... it's literally a model train set in a living room for Christmas elves.... Might as well have Hogwarts or Willy Wonka or the Nightmare Before Halloween. Although if it were possible to build Sodor that would be an amazingly potentially lucrative deal that would get a lot of fresh faces into the game. Grab your customers young and keep em buying! ;-0
Yes. Now that I think about it, I might have been thinking of the 455s from the beginning. Or maybe it applies to both, which wouldn't surprise me - the 455s reused 508 coaches as well.
True, I don't fully see the vehement rejection of the notion either, like no one has justified it beyond ' hell no, this is a simulator, I don't want it', as if the mere suggestion of it will infringe on the existing trajectory of 'realism' within the game. Somehow I doubt it, especially if it's treated as a separate clearly marked product you didn't have to partake in. We all have our own interpretation of fictional but I consider it overdramatic to treat a suggestion like the thin end of the wedge. You could say that about the Roblox world they've built. Seeing pre release photos of the LNWR 350s only for the brand to pull out leaves a sour taste, and yes we can use CC liveries or do it yerself, but it's not quite the same is it. To get around licensing issues would be a boon for a start and I dare say the modern Island Line was a good compromise and fully within the remit of what we're discussing. Just because I had the idea, this is my kind of fiction.
You are correct the 5WESs couldn't enter service because they needed parts from 4REPs they replaced. The 424 goes way further though. They took a 4CIG, ripped the mk1 body off and replaced it with a Turbostar body, and dared to call it a new train.
One thing that isn't clear is whether or not the 424 actually worked. I've seen conflicting accounts. I assume it couldn't be driven from the new cab, but it would have been very interesting if it did work.
I believe that some people may be worried that if one fictional train is created, it may become more common and a habit. I see their point, though the suggestion just is things to make on the side, not affecting any "realistic" based products.
I still stick with my original point. And would also add once the game starts adding fictional rolling stock, it stops becoming a realistic simulator and is bordering on becoming a borderline arcade-ish game. In terms of fictional trains, the only possibility that would attract an enthusiast like myself is ones I'd class 'semi fictional', such as the Express Networker proposals from the 1990s that were cancelled shortly before privatisation and due to the recession of the time. Or the proposed Strathclyde Sprinter. Here are some pictures:
Well you can't win with some people even if you clearly spell it out :P Keeping it separate is the compromise. Plus it's already an 'arcade-y' sim style game, leaning more toward the sim, there's plenty of functions that don't work, the controls are simplified for consoles, and we have the default option of using the hud rather than be purely focused on the loco desk, track side signs & signals. The 471 would be an excellent addition though. Love wrap round windows a la Clacton Express & Wessex.
Valid points, and the livery thing is an important point to me because people "mod" the game all the time. I'm not against that. Just saying that it's a single player game. No one SEES anyone else's content. So no one has to look at whatever crazy mod/livery someone wants to put in the game, and likewise you don't SEE anything you don't buy in the game. So it's not like you're suddenly going to be inundated with content you didn't buy....
