Rivet Shouldn't Be Blamed For Routes

I feel like rivet will not look at these sorts of threads unless they absolutely have to. Which is ashame cause there is lots of feedback that could be helpful for them here. I do hope they, or another company, can fix the routes and trains they have so badly botched.

 

Yeah, I'm not denying that Rivet are at fault for the quality of their routes.

But the finger can't only be pointed at them like people are doing.

Both parties are to blame: Rivet for producing sub standard content, and DTG for allowing it.

 

Yeah I totally agree with you there!

 

FWIW Fife Circle is one of my favourite routes but I feel Rivet sometimes bite off more that they can chew. I remember someone mentioning the airport on the initial live stream and Jasper(?) mentioned memory limitations due to the amount of space the Forth Bridge took up. If they had decided just to go up to Markinch via Kirkcaldy, not bothered with the Dunfermline line and put the extra time into polishing up the scenery would anyone be made about the other half of the route?

 

That would terrible if they didn’t do the Dunfermline side of the Fife Circle… absolutely a big no from me. People would be going MAD if they cut that part of the Fife circle out.

 

MAD. Wow, fair enough!

 

lol, that sounds like DTG as well if you ask me.

 

Well DTG do way more than Rivet in terms of patches but definitely aren't perfect. DTG have their flaws and issues, but whataboutism isn't gonna change the facts or how players feel about Rivet

 

Yeah. It's not really...a circle... without that. They'd have to call it fife semicircle or something XD

 

That’s true lol !!. It would have been nice if they had added in the Sunday services where they do actually go around the full loop.

 

Do you have the Class 40 show up in your timetable?
Although not quite what you might be looking for it does a rail tour around the circle starting at Waverley and stopping at Dunfermline where you can just return to Free Roam when the menu prompts you and the timetable will allow you to complete the run in the same train. The maximum speed on that is 75Mph with the vacuum braked coaches and you should also be driving to the non HST limits. 4472 Flying Scotsman does the circle too with air braked coaches.

The approach to Thornton Junction (South Curve) is not signalled correctly so when you pass Kirkcaldy you're best to treat the next green signal as an irregularity and proceed as though it were a single yellow as in real life.

 

DTG carries blame ultimately as the producer of the game. And getting them to help with WCML was the nail in the coffin for that route.

However Rivet have to be blamed for their shoddy development practices and their complete inability to receive & learn from the feedback provided by the community.

Take the ballast for instance. It doesn’t sound like a big deal. But the ballast they use on their Scottish routes is completely wrong. We’ve seen it done properly on the Cathcart remaster. But despite it being pointed out they released Fife with that horrific sludge coloured ballast that makes the route looks hideous. Something as simple as that would buy them some praise.

 

Yeah... I couldn't agree less on that one. DTG also allow Rivets products in their game.

Of course not, they are going to complain about Rivet anyway, and cry for days when you criticise DTG for the very same thing. I bet ya that half of the most vocal people here haven't even played a single Rivet route, or at the very least not since Arosa came out.

 

Just because someone may not play or have bought a product doesn't make a product immune from criticism. That happens all the time with many games like the recent Test Drive game. Yes DTG publish Rivet's products, but those products are ultimately made by Rivet. At at least DTG do go back and fix some of their products of there are major issues so yes they do more than Rivet in that regard. DTG could do more, but they are definitely not like Rivet when it comes to updates

 

...but it doesn't make the criticism valid, half of the points here are invalid and prove ignorance, just hopping on the bandwagon and circlejerking away, that's not valid criticism lmao.

 

I don't think they are invalid. Many of the points aren't baseless. You may think it's unfair, but it's not difficult to understand why they have the reputation they have compared to the likes of Skyhook, JT and TSG. If they had released good quality products consistently or go back and actually address issues players have, then they wouldn't have such a negative reputation and most of their products wouldn't have either mixed or negative reviews

 

Why are you worried about their reputation - is it your company? It's their decision what and how to make it and yours to buy or not. These endless circulating fruitless discussions only make yourselves sick. To me it doesn't matter if Rivet or whoever, the whole game is borked and ugly anyway.

 

Have owned Fife on PS4 and more recently PS5 since the first sale after release and can promise you that I haven't noticed the ballast once let alone think it makes the route look "hideous". It just doesn't.

 

Who says I was worried about their reputation? Also so what if it isn't my company. I and others just pointed out the issues of Rivet games and pointed out the fact that compared to other third party devs, they aren't recieved positive for the most part. Their products mostly have mixed or negative reviews. Just because people don't have to buy a product doesn't mean they can't have an opinion. This like saying that if someone has a positive opinion on a product but doesn't own it, then they can't have an opinion

 

Never said you can't have an opinion. Just wondering why you are wasting your time with stuff you don't like. You can say a million times that Rivet weren't making good products in your opinion but that's pointless if you don't draw your own consequences. I did and I'm done with TSW completely.

 

If you read my first post on this thread, I did say that I have not bought another Rivet DLC after getting Scotrail Express when it came out early last year along with explaining why I disagree with the op of this thread. Also I was responding to a person who literally quoted me along with answering a question you literally asked me so I can respond if I want.

 

The problem is, this name calling about 'Rivet bashing' by some members of the community, and trying to completely invalidate any arguments about Rivets quality without providing counter evidence. Could they expand on what makes the points made by users questioning Rivets quality invalid? As all I've seen is those who make arguments against Rivets quality make clear and specific points about their shoddy work and give good and clear examples.

All I've seen from most of the people counter arguing in Rivets favour, is them pointing fingers and calling people 'Rivet bashers', which comes across as slightly antagonising and high and mighty... Trying to invalidate people criticising Rivets work without providing a good counter argument. Could they possibly argue why Rivets work is good and why they feel it's at a acceptable standard?

Because at the moment it just seems like the said people are talking down to others and making sly comments at others to go against the grain, but then not provide a case or argument for the actual point which is Rivets quality as developer.

It's seems that the only ones name calling and being harsh (without any substance to their argument) are most of those standing up for Rivet.

I'll happily debate with people like an adult, but I've not seen a strong argument for Rivet so far...

*Just to edit, I respect the people counter arguing who have been polite. My post is aimed at those adding nothing but only name calling*

 

That debate won't have any outcome.

 

Gotta admit, I just got Bernina on sale and it's pretty effin' spectacular. Not just the Alpine scenery (night and day compared to Arosa), but the automated announcements and good sound mix (don't know if it's accurate, but it sounds good), combined with Rivet's characteristic first-rate rolling stock modeling, make it a real winner in my book (for a relaxed no-drama sightseeing run).

 

H’mm I’ve been on the fence about this one, not so much Rivet quality but the length. Might pencil in for the Xmas sale though, as it isn’t going to get much play time currently with WCMLOS just landed.

 

I personally think arosa and brrnina look well. (Sure arosa has not the nice mountains since its a old route, but in winter both routes look very atmospheric to me)

The allegra is ok for a TSW train, but Rivet again did the bare minimum on the freight wagons. Since Rush hour, german tsw trains have the advanced brake system (pgr + Brake weight change from empty to loaded).

The Rhb freight wagons have a lever to switch the brake weight. Obviously for Rivets standards this isnt modeled.
Overall im glad there is at least a dev making swiss content.

But hell looking at the many signalling errors on Rivets fullscale uk routes, i rather think they should have stayed away, because rivet isnt coming back to fix it....

 

Here to show the brake weights. Not sure which one is now on those wagons simulated, but the player cant set up the brake force to a loaded or unloaded wagon. (Possibly rivet didnt even know what this lever means)

 

Well took the plunge and dropped 15 squiddles on Bernina yesterday evening. Only done the intro train ride so far but from what I can see looks okay. Hopefully get a bit more done today though it’s competing with WCMLOS for time and this is where only having one save game slot becomes a real PITA. Can’t have more than one long run on the go to jump between as the fancy takes you.

I suspect so far as Rivet Swiss routes and trains are concerned they have a different and, with respect, slightly more artisan team than the lot they use for the UK stuff.

 

Actually I think they don’t have separate teams for their content. I think they have route builders, audio engineers, loco artists etc. and do one route at a time. Their cycle has been Uk/Swiss/Uk/Swiss/Uk so the next route should be Swiss again- which I think will be announced in the beginning of December (hopefully Albula)

 

Not so long in miles, but plenty long in minutes (a full all-stops run is about an hour and a half). 30km/h doesn't cover much ground in a hurry.

 

Rivet's Bernina Line is one of my favourite routes and certainly my favourite non-UK route.

I just wish they would concentrate on Swiss routes, as that is what they seem to be best at, and someone needs to be doing Swiss routes!

After Rivet's site closing down I'm now having trouble finding any information on what Rivet are working on, and I would love to be able to see if and when they develop another Swiss route. If I am missing some information channel please someone point me to it..

 

The (half) route might have been okay, but the Allegra left much to be desired. Poor sound and physics the typical Rivet power surge, to the point where even the speed set throttle was fluctuating wildly and frequently overspeeding the unit.

 

Haha I'm overspeeding on the route right at this very moment. I guess for me I'm less focussed on the train accuracy and more interested in how the landscape is modelled, and in that respect I'm very happy with it.

 

I think rivet should give up on rolling stock and timetables entirely and just do scenery

 

They don’t get that right at all their scenery is a joke. Bernina is not bad but the trackside houses are all make believe and not in keeping with the route. They even put red roofs on them.

As for WCL they made a mockery of the beautiful St. Ives

 

They also made this real image of Penzance.


Look like this Rivet stick to scenery. No way!!

 

With Bernina Linie they did produce excellent scenery. So it's not all bad.

However, I'm still happy that there is no new Rivet content on the current roadmap. Most if what they produce can't compete with other developers (including DTG themselves).

 

Hmmm, except that no-one else so far as I know is producing Swiss routes. Why don't we allow Rivet to make Swiss routes but only Swiss routes?

 

Due to licensing there’s unlikely to be that many Swiss routes. SBB have said no, we don’t know about BLS or the other private companies but at the moment seems just RhB.

 

that ETCS wound is still open to this day :'( ... which is a shame cos ETCS is the safety system for the future, more and more countries and lines adopt it, not only in EU... so sooner or later it should find its way into TSW, I hope

 

How about those who don't like Rivet just not purchase their content, it's not like it's compulsory. Seems a simple solution to me.

 

If Rivet can produce routes to the standard of Bernina or IOW2022* then I'm fine with them continuing and actually would be happy if they did.
If we continue to see quality as poor as the (at-launch) Fife Circle or Edinburgh - Glasgow (which I think has decent scenery but the 385 and timetable ruins it), then it's a no.

Rivet are inconsistent and it's no coincidence that their largest routes (Fife, WCL, EDN) are the ones with the biggest problems. Bernina is smaller and is wonderful, as is IOW2022 (which is a second attempt at the route, I suppose, but still.)

As for the thread's point - Should Rivet be blamed for their routes? Absolutely.
The "blame Rivet" attitude after WCML launched was pretty poor because nobody actually knew what it was Rivet did on that route - but in the cases of their own routes then absolutely do.

I understand Rivet are limited in many aspects but doesn't excuse them from all criticism nor responsibility. [Image Related]

 

Lmao. I can use tsw to hopefully learn for when it comes to our fleet in the UK lol

 

dont use TSW for that lol... I believe it is only ETCS level 0 and 1, and even that is bugged (doesnt give warning of speed restrictions in enough advance, which leads to unnecessary penalty brake applications)

 

In my opinion both iow dlc titles are very well made. At least i enjoy them alot because at some days i need a break from the busy mainlines. The world offers a lot of small enclosed railways & lines, which are Rivets strenghts.

That has to be said.

 

I'm joking dw lol

 

After the mess of WCL, l refuse to buy another route from Rivet. But watching the streams and the YT videos and comparing their work to Drivers eye view videos and cab rides, they get about 5% of the scenery right. On a positive note their Station replication and that of important landmarks like the Forth Bridge is pretty good.

I truly hope Rivet do not release another route anywhere!!! However their locomotive work while not fantastic is acceptable. They should just go and take lessons from the Just Trains school of design!!!

 

Refuse to buy another of their routes. It means you don't have to worry about their content then does it? Those of us who actually get something out of their DLC can continue to do so.

 

Trouble is when someone does a route, it's seen as the definitive version and that section won't be done again.
This is why I think wcml south should've gone further - the next section will start at a relatively minor station near London.

 

This just sounds like a attempt to deflect criticism. Rivet's reputation is already tarnished on these forums and elsewhere. Telling people not to buy their stuff isn't gonna change one's views or makes them immune from any criticism