Enough Is Enough!!!

Did you try deleting any offending trains occupying the section in front? I had this at Preston on the first WCMLOS Journey run but after deleting the stuck train and despite being thrown in out of the driver’s seat with dire warnings about failing the Journey, the signal cleared, I sat back down and moved forward into the station to finish and got the Journey ticked off.

 

Ran into a similar issue with the massive 3 hour long run with the 47, and same solution, deleted a offending train (It was a set of 101's that had gotten stuck I believe) and finished the service as normal. Frankly I almost never use the free roam tools for actual free roaming, but it's such a massive help to "fix" broken timetables.

Edit: To be clear I'm talking about Just Train's WCML.

 

Was that 1M05 by any chance?

The train in front does eventually move, although it makes you 15 minutes late.

 

Yes! Think if you run even slightly late, it gets in front of you wherever it should be regulated. Good in some respects as the AI signaller is thinking dynamically but it does cause a flutter after 70 minutes of driving that you may have wasted the run. Player really needs more info as to why the signal is red and about the offending train in front. Almost certain when I hovered over 6V75 in the 2D map it said no more instructions but I might be in error on that due to the red mist was rising!

 

Something like the contact dispatcher feature returning more text than "wait for the signal change", but a whole sentence at the bottom text field about the situation (that is used for scenario messages).

 

I did the old 2021-22 method of walking to them and putting their reverser into forward; I didn't realize these stuck trains can be deleted.

 

I love how this thread has turned into a general discussion thread.

 

That happened around a hundred pages ago.

 

After the recent North London Line add on has been announced (i always forgot the official name).
I just want to question has developers and Highers ups who looks over the 3rd party development. Have they not learn from Just Train's over shap? Talking about the full complete recreation from TSC here.

I am grateful that a single person can create such a good looking route but it shouldn't be used as an excuse stop criticism like this. It makes the route so disconnected from each other (sorry but route hopping doesnt help that), the incomplete route makes the route looked "half baked" as some might say. Even Alan Thompon's' upcoming manchester route shouldn't be excused for this.

Like yea if you're a first timer making routes for TSW, i agree start with something small. Then start with something small. But if its a route that its just going to be made and is not a full complete route. Then dont give us a incomplete half baked route. And when you're 3rd party developer use that benefit as you have even more time than DTG to produce route and your route might even be better than them if you make them well and give us a full route (and plus they couldnt be asked to make longer routes, theres a thread about that and is a question that i also asked during a qna).

 

I agree with this entirely. Unfortunately it seems asking a reasonable question about what is likely to be at least a £25 release is seen as anathema by some elsewhere on the board. This route also demonstrates why there needs to be a middle ground for TSW where third parties can release as freeware if they like or put on Marketplace albeit for Steam/PC only. Perhaps an inevitable consequence of TSW being multi platform and DTG therefore very much controlling what and how gets issued for the game.

As has been mentioned, the release of WCMLOS has been a game changer for DLC in terms of quantity, quality and what you get for the money. This doesn’t just apply to NLL, but other forthcoming bus service routes like the ATS Manchester urban route or DTG’s own Cardiff City network - albeit a diesel bus service!

 

I still cannot believe this thread is still going. Is this the longest thread to date does anyone know?

 

Nah, regardless of the start/end points i'm looking forward to seeing more of it.

 

It's only just over a year old, so I bet there are some route feedback threads that are longer. They also liven up when there is a remaster or a loco DLC.

The title of this thread has some urgency to it, so strange that it still goes ;-)

 

And I do want to thank you for bringing this up during when ATS’ Manchester route was announced. I was kinda inspired by what you have said back then and agree with you a lot on that.

 

It is already for quite some time

 

TFL are absolutely convinced it's called the 'Mild May' line. In the south of England, May is usually warm for me, so they might as well have called it the 'Freezing Summer' line. In the realm of reality, we call it the North London Line.

Spoiler

Its marketing name is the Mildmay Line. Its official name is the North London Line. The Overground names are (mostly) terrible and many people including myself agree that they were picked only to support the political agenda of those in charge of London. To be fair, I don't like the Elizabeth Line name they gave to Crossrail either as I don't believe National Rail lines (which Crossrail is) should be marketed as if they were part of the Underground. For that reason I will continue to use the real names of the lines.

And as some fun facts, High Speed 1 is actually called the Channel Tunnel Rail Link (I don't use that name to describe the route though), and the route code for the Brighton Mainline is actually VTB. Many people incorrectly believe it is BML, but that is the route code for the Bournemouth Main Line, also known as the South Western Main Line.

 

Have always maintained as an “operational” sim, they should be using the ELR or closest equivalent rather than the marketing or even slang (who remembers St Pancras to Bedford being termed the “Bedpan” line?).

 

I thought you were taking about the East Lancs Railway haha.

I remember the Bedpan line and heard a couple of reasons for it to have that name, the obvious one was that it was St Pancras-Bedford, the unofficial one was that it was a toilet lol

 

Sorry, should have clarified - ELR = Engineers Line Reference.

Actually ELR could also be East London Railway, from Shoreditch to New Cross and New Cross Gate. Now if matey had done that, set back when it was still LUL with A60 stock, instead of the partial North London Line, I’d have been queued up on Day One.

 

I think comparing just trains which is an entire team and their full time job to a one man developer team doing everything by himself on top of his personal life is extremely unfair. Just because a route is short doesn't mean it's easier. Sure maybe he could have done a much smaller route but doesn't mean it's easier.

 

Didn't take long for the unofficial spokesman to turn up.

As previously stated, if you're doing something for money it doesnt matter whether the developer is one person or two hundred. He put himself forward (or was persuaded by DTG) which means stepping up to the mark and being prepared to deliver a complete product that runs between logical end points. He could have said, "No, Willesden isn't good enough, to be meaningful this needs to go to Richmond."

 

Contrary to what I said in the NLL thread, I do have a lot of respect for him now that I know it is him doing the majority of the work. But that is a respect of him as a developer, and it doesn't mean I'm a fan of the route itself. Even if it's good quality, the fact that it's half a route where no services (to my knowledge) terminate at one of the end stations is a huge issue. If he knew (or DTG told him) that it could only be x miles long because the route needed to be released by x month of the year, surely it would have been a reasonable thing to change what route was being done. I'm not sure exactly how long the ELL/Dalston to Clapham section is, but I'm pretty sure that it's shorter than the full NLL. It's self-contained as well, and could have used existing SE and Southern stock for AI.

The 'London' thread also has screenshots of Blackfriars and mentions of the East London Line, so there clearly was some interest in making those parts of London.

 

That is completely unnecessary and somewhat supports what the OP was trying to say in that other 'hot' thread you've also been dabbling in. It's just mean-spirited. I know you're better than that.

 

I have to say personally the route could and I hope it will be really well done. The scenery and everything could be beautiful and the timetable is obviously a very full one with layers on other pieces of content. I just personally feel it will always have that air of the missed opportunity. Personally if it's not your full time job just take the extra time with it. Work on it as a passion product.

As no matter how good it is (And I do hope it's brilliant) it's just always going to be "I wish it was the full route".

Don't get me wrong I'm all for more third parties and more content. I just don't want them to feel like they need to rush it or cut corners.

This content isn't my cup of tea personally but I wish him all the best with it none the less and I hope it has a smooth release.

 

Not gonna lie i kinda regret joining the TS community server and bringing the topic of NNL... i tried making an argument about the NNL about the topic of "one person/new developers shouldnt be excused for a disconnected route" and everybody there just went curshing all sorts of augment on me and constantly used the argument of "one person". Honestly really feel like everybody there are justifying the whole disconnected route thing and passion rules over everything and they dont deserve criticism at all.
I really question do people there who supports routes being disconnected, limited play value, defending what might be criticism just like to "dont ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next product". Or maybe I just dont know how to argue/counter well. Does passion justify everything??? Ignore criticism no matter how bad the product maybe?

I know development time for TSW is limit (maybe for DTG) but are we not here to ask for more? Cant we allow more end to end routes?

 

Feel your pain. But don't let it get to you as it's not worth it. If you disagree and hand out any form of criticism you're made out to be a rude and over expectant person who has no self awareness for people's feelings... It's ironic that the same people who lecture others about about what they perceive to be nasty and over the top, are the same ones that make small digs at people who take a different opinion or stance on a subject.

I've just learnt to grow a thick skin to it, and don't let it effect my personal judgement or critical feedback.

 

adding on to the 2nd part. Gameplay pcaks are honestly dumb apart from a few instances. I heard the recent german gameplay that includes a new loco and carriage set was pretty cool. And I still think the SE white and grey (even though they could've taken the chance to give us more variant for the 375) and europhoneix 37 is a pretty cool gameplay pack worth picking up...
I dont feel anything worth towards any cargo line and 66 for justification for 5 pounds. Like everything there is more of a payware reskin more than anything and best it should've been a free update. Think about it 5 pounds for a single reskin of a cargo wagon. But all the traction (or at least of what you're using to pull it) its the same old 66 I know 66 and maybe 59 is massively used in the UK for freight but still. And does anybody even mess about with scenario mode even? Apart from getting mastery (some are interesting some just makes the part of a route look busier/prettier). Most of the time I just go and play timetable mode. Should time and resources that is used on making scenarios be instead spent on something else?

Gameplay packs can be used, or honestly just have that merge with loco add-ons. The only thing that i think makes gameplay pack worth a bit of money is that they give us more carriage variations. i.e some MK1, MK2 or Mk3 (and even the german double deckers for commuter runs, i heard theres more variants too but was never considered to be made) variants we never got from a base route, if they dont want to provide us a loco (or in a bad way, have a loco that is separately sold) then thats a way to sell gameplay packs, and reason why i point out that its carriages that should be is because sold in gameplay packs because part of the element in TSC is being able to ride trains. Maybe I am just the one who likes to nitpick about carriage variants, but then again the interior of certain carriage variants are always different compared to other of their same kind. And so maybe the ride experience is a bit different. Why not make use of that. And just put any sort of reskin to be free updates. (and i think there was also a MK1 in BR blue gameplay pack for i think the ECML if i aint mistaken. The more i think about it i think that gameplay pack could work because apart from BG, we didnt really get BR blues for MK1).

 

IMO the best idea for a gameplay pack was the RHTT, and that should've been the templates for what those sort of packs do as far as I'm concerned. Focusing on more obscure equipment that maybe wouldn't be able to be sold at full price or couldn't be included with base routes for one reason or another. In that case it made sense to me because the moves themselves aren't nessicarily as interesting to normal people as the big freights or fast expresses. But also because you're really only get good value out of the pack if you have a good chunk of routes. Plus while maybe not the most high effort thing, you're still getting a nice little set of cars with a unique interactive element.

 

i can somewhat agree. But the class 66 ruins it for me. I still thinking it would've been more fitting if they that pack included class 73s while also include 66 formations when you buy the pack for routes outside of 3rd rail. Pretty sure class 73 running RHTT (at least recently in the south) is a bit more common compared to other locos?

 

Depends on the location, I live in Leicester so it's been solid 66 action on RHTTs for years, though I do remember when 67s did them for a year or two.

 

Did muse earlier that a set of blue/grey Mark Ones - much needed on the BR Classic era routes - would be a nice gift from Santa. With or without a buffet car! Let’s hope DTG surprises us…

 

The gameplay pack...

• The Christmas train is stupid.
• The wagon reskin is cool, I guess. It's good that they haven't bundled a new Class 66, and the weathering looks nice, but I think it would have been a great opportunity to have different weathered variants as a rake of identically rusted wagons will get old quite quickly.
• The BR111 and n-wagen coach pack is probably the most compelling of the three options, but it would have been nice to see a more modern interior in it.

I don't bother with the TS Community Discord. The mod site is great, but the server is mostly filled up with DTG brown-nosers from an outsider's view. I am part of the server for the giveaways, but other than that there's not much of a reason to be part of it.

That said, they're not entirely wrong about the solo developer thing. Because DTG's idiotic rules mean that any third party developer that wants to make money on what they create has to go through DTG, they are beholden to them for releasing it. DTG have, to my knowledge, a set number of releases each year and a third party developer must fit into one of the release windows or wait for a free one later on. If IG wanted to extend the route to Richmond (which I have no doubt he'd want to given the opportunity), DTG may have forced him to delay the route by months, if not a whole year or more. That's not sustainable. Seemingly JT and TSG were able to negotiate a longer development time with DTG, and as a result their routes have been larger and more complete when compared to those by DTG, Skyhook and Rivet Games.

To be fair to DTG, releasing DLC on storefronts that they're not in charge of is difficult. They've spoken in the past about problems they've had with late changes to DLC, or delaying DLC, or getting DLC to actually work. I don't know myself, but I expect DTG have to comply with rules regarding what they can release and when. The system, whether or not DTG can change it, has caused a number of issues with DLCs by third parties, most recently the Fife Circle and a few others I can't talk about.

 

This really makes me wonder how much a hurdle the forced requirement of console releases is for attracting developers. I could imagine even developers with experience and resources not wanting to go through that. Makes me wonder if any developer deals have fallen apart due to the console release slot requirements.

 

I understand you 100%. I felt the same when others were "it's just 1 person" etc. It's like you can't have an opinion sometimes

 

Are theyever going to fix the live map freezing.

Just finished a run on WCML Shap, opened the map to see where my next train was, and it froze. An hour and half wasted just because they can't be asked to fix it.

 

I find toggling the labels always unfreezes it, might be worth trying next time.

 

Did that.

Pressed every button under the sun, but no luck.

 

Yep same here, works to get it going again.

 

In the meantime, performance is going sideways. Started a run on LIRR (the new one) and zooming in the cab, textures blur out until you zoom back out again. Departing NY Penn the tunnel wall textures kept blurring. Never been an issue on PC before. Oh and the stuttering and sound squelching is very much present on that route too.

 

LIRR 2.0 on PS5 is unplayable for me when I’m doing a service starting/terminating at NY Penn, it always crash at the tunnel entrance, it’s quite a shame as the route looks nice but chances for any fix are slim to none.

 

Yes think I will abandon the run and do something else. It's no fun anyway with the safety systems constantly bothering you.

 

Yeah and with the safety systems always on, it makes both M7/M9 unusable elsewhere. Sadly the crash issue won’t be patched…

 

I know we've been over this before (one year ago) but - I can't get over it - Almost Christmas and the trees in UK look like late Sept-early Oct

 

They look like that where I live to be honest with you haha.

 

It's because the game just has 4 seasons rather than gradual change between them, winter doesn't start in the real world until 21st December, after that the trees will probably be more to your liking.

 

Winter only starts on 21st December on the astronomical calender - on the meteorological calendar it starts on December 1st!

 

Well, I'm not a weather man so will stick with the original dates.

 

Or how about the daytime high temps of -3°C in Los Angeles. It's not Canada.