Just Trains Making Wcml Over Shap And Br Class 87

More so I meant what rolling stock was being used, like is it using the coaches from SoS over ones included? If so, why? Thought there was maybe a deeper reason for it than "The SoS version is the one they used for a base". While I'm at it though I'm surprised they'd want the 50's condition Jubilee for that, I'd think the AWS equipped units from West Cornwall would've made more sense to use as a base layer.

 

I got the class 31 and 20 as part of a heavily discounted Tees Valley bundle years ago during the TSW2 days. Would’ve never bought them otherwise as I’m not really a freight player. But it’s incredible how useful these two locos have been. They unlock tons of layers and railtours on all kinds of routes. The 31 can even do some crazy passenger services pulling a Class 101 on TVL!

Regarding the Spirit of Steam layer, I don’t think there’s much to it. I personally wouldn’t want the only steam train I see on the route to be the Flying Scotsman. Probably rather unrealistic. So they went for consistency (same as in BPO) and made the steam layer dependent on SoS, with a Scotsman substitution option. Best option would’ve obviously been to have two separate steam layers with distinct services unlocked by SoS and the Scotsman, respectively. But perhaps that would’ve been too much steam

 

The base layer was constructed using the SOS Jubilee and coaches, therefor they are what is required to enable the layer. Anything beyond that (Using Flying Scotsman and the PFR Jubilee) is simply substitution which is a secondary process to the layer itself.
As for what the SOS layer unlocks, it's the railtour as well as I believe a couple of freight runs using vacuum braked wagons from it. I believe at least once I did see a 20T brake van appear somewhere.

There are other places where you can see the separation between loco and coach substitutions on a layer much more clearly. The best example I can think of are the BR Blue railtours on SEHS, where NTP is the base of the layer. You can substitute in all of the Just Trains Class 47s into its place, but the coaches behind you will always be the NTP MK2s as per the layer they come from. Basically loco substitution happens all over the place, but wagon/coach substitution happens incredibly rarely, so generally whatever you're pulling will always be the original wagons used to assemble the layer.

I would love if wagon substitution was a thing however, especially on German freight runs where several of the freight wagons have had sound and physics updates over recent years.

 

Why are the sleepper trains limited to 75mph

 

Uncomfortable for passengers in their beds probably! Plus there's no need for high speed running either...8 or 9 hours between London and Scotland is more than enough.

 

Fairly certain the sleepers were timed at 80 MPH, not 75. But yes, the rationale behind that was to provide a more comfortable ride for the bedded passengers though IIRC, 100 MPH was permitted if running late to make up time.

 

I never seem to run on time driving the sleepper trains always 5-10 mins late even doing 75 all the time

 

Yes, I had 80mph in my mind as well, with 100mph to recover time.

I used to use the Carlisle sleeper portion from time to time. You boarded one of the 2-3 sleeper vehicles in the Dumfries bay at the North end of the station, and got yourself off to sleep. At some time in the middle of the night you'd be woken by much crashing, banging and shouting as an 08 shunted the vehicles out of the station and attached them to the rear of one of the sleeper trains from Scotland. Once underway to Euston, you could (try to) get back to sleep.

When they withdrew the Carlisle portion of the sleeper (some time in the early 1990s), if you wanted to get the sleeper to London you had to go to Carlisle, then hang around on the station until some unearthly hour of the morning, and then board the sleeper from Scotland when it arrived (it still stopped). Obviously this did not prove a popular option, and a request was made to BR that a Carlisle - Euston sleeper ticket should allow you to get an evening train in the 'wrong' direction from Carlisle to Glasgow Central, and board the sleeper there, thus enabling a proper night's sleep. BR agreed, and some people used to do that. Whether it's still permitted, I don't know.

 

Much the same as happened at Perth @0100 in the morning when the Edinburgh and Glasgow portions of the overnight to Inverness joined. Only ever did that sitting up but the banging and jostling would have woken up anyone lucky to have fallen asleep by that time. That plus the slightly drunk oilmen jumping off to catch the Aberdeen service which connected out of the Inverness. And back in those days (late 1970’s), the Highland Main Line was still largely jointed track and none too smooth at that, so not really conducive to a good nights sleep!

 

Maybe they are called sleeper trains because there's little chance of getting any sleep on board them. So once you've arrived at your destination, the first thing you want to do is get some sleep.

 

Not quite a sleeper train but once when my mum was a teacher she was trying to get back to Llandudno junction during a snow storm and missed the last train late at night. She managed to convince the guard to let her onto either a newspaper or parcels train although they weren't actually scheduled to stop at Llandudno junction so they slowed down to let her jump off the train as they went through the platform in the wee hours Must've been less comfortable than a sleeper train lmao

 

In truth, apart from the crashing around when doing the shunt at Carlisle, I actually found Mark 3 sleepers very comfortable, and I generally slept well. Most recently I travelled on one from Euston to Aberdeen. I sat in the buffet car and enjoyed the running out of Euston, then headed off to bed. I fell asleep around Stafford, and when I woke up I peered out of the window and we were passing Stonehaven.

Back when I was getting the Carlisle sleeper, I used to particularly enjoy the last few miles of running into London. There was something especially exciting about the sleeper weaving its way between the packed commuter trains heading into the capital, as I sat on my bed wrapped in my blanket, looking out of the window! Some of the commuters looked back, in slight bemusement.

There’s something great about sleepers and I’m really pleased they’re seeing a bit of a resurgence in continental Europe. I hope we see the same in the UK soon (and it’s great that we held onto a few of our sleepers, when at one time it looked as if they might all go).

 

Modern coaches and locos/trains certainly send me too sleep

 

coursetim

If it was a mail train, they could've run nonstop and delivered you're mum into the line side TPO apparatus.

 

Now that'd be an experience and a half!

 

Looks like DTG haven't been able to fit in a Class 87 railtour into the upcoming WCMLS upgrade next week (too much of performance hit on consoles/lower power PCs). So if you're looking for a free roam service that should hopefully path well, here's an upcoming real life one in January: https://inter-city.co.uk/journey/the-capitals-scot/

 

While Preston-Carlisle with all its lenght and variety of rolling stock and service patterns still perform solid. How is that even possible ?

 

There are a lot more services on the WCML south than Preston to Carlisle. Also more trackwork.

 

To an extent I agree, but I’ll make an exception for mark 3s - they’re the best coaches ever built for UK railways and (as coaches go) full of character. Also, I’m not sure they can really be considered ‘modern’ anymore!

 

Had an amusing funny moment earlier. Tried the Class 47 Scenario where you have to rescue a train. Stopped to get ready to change cab ends and as I exit the loco, I end up dropping down over the bridge, rather than the trackbed and no way back up.

 

If you are on PC you can press Ctrl + 0 to return to the cab, not sure if there is an equivalent for consoles

 

I think that may of happened to someone else on that scenario. Sure I remember reading something similar earlier in the thread.

 

There is. It's called using a keyboard

 

I will say - they look really sleek. Back when I first saw them and knew nothing about UK railroading, I would have never guessed they originated in the 70s. The outside vaguely reminded me of Germany’s Metropolitan coaches from the late 90s, which might factor in why I thought the mk3s were much younger originally.

 

who would've guessed the class 86 would be announced on the 6 with mk2f coaches to bout

 

This is truly an amazing piece of train and route building and proves that Blackpool was no fluke. Everything about it is near enough perfect, the length, the multiple rolling stock, the extra skins - everything, the detail is astonishing. JT's work needs to be the template for all devs going forward, TSG's work is also good. Certain devs that have produced at best patchy results over the years, really need to examine what JT do and either try and emulate them or die. There are no excuses anymore.

 

OldVern finally gets his Mk1 buffet car too

 

OldVern finally gets his Mk1 buffet

 

Oh someone was faster lol

 

Absolutely thrilled with this announcement! Loving the addition of the mk2s as well! Really lifting WCMLOS to a whole new level!

 

Now just the Windermere branch please (or how is it called)

 

OHHHH YEAAAAAHHHHH

I much prefer the 86 to the 87 so I am very happy and excited!!!!!!!!

 

Excellent!

 

Is there a release date for the 86?

 

I don't think I saw owt about a release date.

 

there’s a lot of announcements and hype of late but no pricing or release dates.
Because DTG seem to underwhelm and disappoint lately you sort of expect it with all they’re announcements. I know JT pulled it out the bag mine you.

 

Just trains post just says next year

 

I think you will find it is called marketing, most companies do it! I haven't been that disappointed, except maybe with WCML south and that is being redeemed.

This add-on will be the icing on the cake for WCML and looks fantastic. always loved the 86's and the 2F's will add some more variety and realism to the route. I would love to see an 81 or 85 in the future.

 

When I saw 2f, I thought oh a dock tank, or tender engine. Perhaps a pilot engine for the 87

I've not seen any headboards on the expresses, that could be a neat feature.

 

Odds it'll be available on Gen 8? I hope not, because it shows they probably could've got another loco into the core route rather than charging for an add-on

 

Unless I'm getting the class 86 sub classes mixed up wasn't some of the 86/2 able to go 110mph, ik about the 3 class 87 prototypes but i swear I heard from somewhere that there were two sub classes that during the 80s operated at 110mph.

 

To sate my curiosity, could someone talk me through all the plugs and cables on the 87?

I’m assuming 1 and 3 are likely part of the same system with one box being a dummy for the plug. The 2s seem obvious duplicates. So that leaves 1/3, 2/2, and 4. What are each of these for?

 

One each for charging your phone, laptop, e-cigarette, and the last for your portable mini fan you bought on Amazon for 3 quid

 

I think:

1 and 3 - original multiple unit cables
2 - RCH/TDM (time-division multiplexing), used for sending control signals
4 - ETH (electric train heating), for heating coaches

I'm not entirely sure though, someone correct me if I'm wrong

 

Looks as if SoS is needed for the freight layers too as I’ve just downloaded WCL and I’m still not getting said layers

 

Also, I don’t suppose anyone can show me how to cold start an 87 as I never seem to have any luck getting the pantograph raised on it haha

 

Maybe there will be a JT reveal part two!

Though seriously, if imminent I will hold off buying anything in the Xmas Sale and using up my Steam credit, same with the other items of interest. So a rough idea from JT would be useful and appreciated.

 

I don't even know how many more services we're talking about. Although, others have said that the shunting services are very good.

 

Think it may be a few of the Speedlink freight workings as well as others

 

Best estimate we have is 'due to release next year' from the Facebook post...