2025 Na Content Drought.....

Post removed cause I'm mentality ill.

 

You're a big boy, and you have to understand that British content will always be a priority for DTG)

 

It's looking pretty barren to be sure. Maybe we'll get a Harlem remaster or something as a result of that VR spinoff. I think they might be a bit gun shy to do another new MTA route after all the LIRR2 drama.

Maybe another Metrolink route?

 

But we’ve got Thomas the Engine! How can you think about such an unnecessary thing as NA content on this happy day?

 

I mean it was the same way for TSW 3 and TSW 4. The only NA routes that came out during their life cycles was NEC: New York - Trenton and LIRR respectively. However, there were a lot of loco add ons, so I have a feeling that it will be the same this time around.

 

I do hope that we get more US DLCs again like we did in TSW2. It certainly feels unfair to have so little to look forward to on the US freight side of things.

 

There's also like no 3rd parties. His is the only one. So that leaves only dtg to create na content. Also given the current limitations and just general licensing, there's only so much us content dtg could do before they run out of ideas. They also couldn't only focus on us content

 

The winter survey asked a lot of questions about US content, so my guess is that DTG just doesn't know what kind of US DLC to make.

 

This was the LAST year I wasted my time with the "winter survey".

A completely useless thing in general.

A bit off topic here, but I would like to know if one (1) user could have answered that they are interested in a route (for example Kaiserslautern) without any new rolling stock.

As for North America, I think that those who are passionate about this country can definitely move to Trainz or Run8.

A company that finds more profit in developing things like "Thomas", instead of committing to the USA, has obviously done its financial calculations.

So far nothing to say.

DTG, as a company, is free to make the choices it deems appropriate.

All this helps me to be more careful in investing my money (which unfortunately I don't find on the trees, but which I earn) in DTG products.

 

Looking at all the indicators, Roadmaps, Reveals etc., it would be reasonable to assume that nothing new is in the offing for the coming year, at least until the next iteration of TSW in the fall of 2025.

Even the F59PHR is limited to the Metrolink routes, which are not themselves particularly exciting.

Other than that we North American players got a large goose egg from the Reveal.

And HIS's offering doesn't look close, given that we only have some 3D renderings so far.

It's pretty clear that DTG's focus ( excuse the pun ) is pretty much set in the direction of the European player base for the future, with a heavy bias towards the UK.

And in the absence of NA 3rd parties, things, as you say, look pretty bleak.

 

Edit: I just noticed how ranty my reply was. I'm going to move this to it's own thread to not derail yours.
Apologies.

In a nutshell, before the rant:
In 8 years, we've gotten 17 US routes.
That's about 2 a year. Less if you discount 2021's bump.
So, it's not unusual at all for there to be 1-2 US routes a year, and there were 3 last year.
So... we're on track.
If you care for the "why" you can read my other thread about player preferences.
If not, then that's my two cents.
In short, modern, European EMUs sell.

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/a-few-thoughts-on-tsw-content-crisis-or-opportunity.87977/










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For NA rail fans- have you checked out Railroader?

It's a bit of a different beast from TSW, as you're trying to build up your own short-line in the Appalachians during the steam-diesel transition era. Emphasis is on operations more than driving the trains (though you absolutely can drive them yourself), but the dev has been steadily adding features and improving the simulation throughout early access.

New experimental update just released adding passenger timetables plus some scenery improvements and bug fixes.

Very much worth a look if the era/setting interests you at all, IMO.

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1683150/view/498308432841933636

 

And we already have gotten 2 with San Bernardino and Boston to 'Wooster".

Plus we are getting a new Metrolink loco. So better than par for the course.

So far all DTG are making is one German route, one Dutch route and one UK route and a German loco.

So that is only 2 UK, 3 German, 3 US and 1 dutch route. Doesn't seem unfair to me.

You can't count 3rd party because they are always going to make what intrests them. DTG makes what they feel sells the most. And they don't force 3rd parties to make what they say.

 

Im not sure what you mean with DTGs German loco? I think i did not miss anything on the Roadmap or Season of reveals?

 

Yes sorry that is Simtrack making that.

So US is in the lead why is the OP complaining?

 

Same reason you keep seeing threads there's "not enough modern, EMU content"

 

Thats different because there is definitly not enough modern EMU content in the game.

No one wants older stuff, this game isn't about nostalgia...

But we are bringing you Thomas because so many loved him when you were kids.

LOL

I'm being sarcastic just so people know. Since you can't actually see or hear me.

 

I definitely enjoy the recent Amtrak, MBTA, LIRR and NJT offerings but I agree, there really needs to be more US content by now.

For freight and even more US passenger stuff, including vintage trains, Train Sim Classic definitely has it, and with mods, it even gets better

 

If i had to guess, i would say because US only has a loco and gameplaypack on the roadmap, while UK has the most announced dlc since the beginning of TSW and Germany has 3 pieces. The main reason for that is not DTG, what also makes me think of this threads purpose, but the amount of UK 3rd partys. As far as i know HIS is the first 3rd party for ONLY US content. Germany has the most from TSG and also gains something from allrounder 3rd partys like Simtrack, Skyhook, Athena Sim.(they said they will do more than UK) and partly Rivet games.
I understand the OPs opinion that US could be left out over the next 1-2 months, but there will be more, not to forget they already got a Route only 2 Months after Tsw release. As far as i know, US dlcs are licence wise a bit of a problem, because the opperators of certain areas arent so cooperative.

 

Dont want to make a topic of it, but the "nostalgia" part is something i dont understand 100%.
For me Tsw is the perfect game to interact with the stuff i see in my daily life, so i want the stuff that we have in real life in game. I understand if others want the stuff out of theyre childhood, but to actually prefer a route set in 50 years ago and not like it is today, makes it completely useless for me. If my all time favourite route Hamburg to Kiel with Sbahn comes out, set in 1960-2000, i would completely lose my mind.
Old routes? only if they didnt change much from now to then, (like with Mittenwaldbahn). Old loco dlcs on modern routes? Hell yes!

 

In the end, everyone wants this. We attribute the happiest of feelings to our first interations with the railways.

 

I think when Trainz arrives on Consoles, North America will become much more important for TSW than now.

The first reason is, that the most income TSW generates on consoles. And exactly on consoles the TSW players have no alternatives, if it is about North American content (Run8, Derail Valley, TSC, Railroader and Trains at the moment are PC only). So that will change.

The second reason is, that Trainz choose a simpler way than TSW. While TSW has all new from scratch trains has to port there current content to consoles only.

And if you look in the Trainz DLC list, there is a lot of american freight and steam action such as Freight in the Rocky Mountains. And it seems in their dlc store are almost all American freight represented locos rep. Plus the Australian stuff.

 

Major problem to that is that they're dlcs in their shop is largly coming from 3rd parties that paternered up with N3V, with some of them having there own website (even some coming from N3V's very own dls) selling the same kind of packs as seen from N3V's own store.

 

I think they will find a solution. And for some 3rd parties like 3dzug it will be the chance to encrease their customers bas significantly.

 

Us needs more freight content in TSW going fwd ..thats where the drought is .I personally tired of the passenger train stuff ..freight is more dominant here in US and needs to be a much larger prescence in US NA content Dtg really needs to get US freight back in the game for next round of US content for TSW6 or what ever ..and the Santa FE gameplay dlc needs to drop in TSW5 cycle

 

Completely agree with mate. TSW want to be a simulator. A simulation has to show the reality. And if american freight is by fare the biggest rail content in the US it has to be in the simulation too. It's the same with PTC. If you have a simulation approach than you have to have it in the simulation too.

 

Jointed Rail...play with the best!
https://jointedrail.com/

 

To be fair, the people wanting that content don't really care if it's "useless" to you.... just like they don't want modern content you want and that's "useless" to them. =-) It's called compromise.

 

Yes and no. Whatever you don't simulate... you don't have to simulate. There are no routes with China in them in TSW... but does that mean it doesn't exist? No, it's just not there. If they're only showing Los Angeles and Boston basically...well those ARE mostly commuter and small amounts of freight (relatively.) So that's "accurate" for Boston and Los Angeles and Long Island/NYC.

That's why they are doing Boston, Los Angeles and LIRR/NYC.

Just avoid the mid-west and no one can say it's not "accurate."

I get that you want freight. I prefer freight myself. However, that's not what the TSW crowd is for the most part. We're a minority here.

Now will that change if/when Trainz comes to console?
I imagine it'll get worse because many of the freight people who ONLY have consoles will shift over there, rather than fight with DTG about more US freight in TSW.

Then TSW will become even more biased towards modern urban passenger routes as there will be fewer regular freight players with many going to Trainz.

That's not a bad thing if Trainz is really good.
Railroads Online is on console and has taken a lot of the people with consoles who want the older/steam stuff.
Trainz would take some of the US freight folks.

If another game turns out better, enjoy it.

I don't think it'll make DTG "compete" per se. There's still only so much player base and there's only so much development time, so to compete they'd have to take devs off of their more popular stuff to make freight content which seems unlikely. It's more likely they'd just double down on their money makers and let the freight people on console gravitate to Trainz.

Everything about TSW is focused towards the urban, (European) passenger experience ("timetable" means very little to freight for example but it's a staple of passenger routes, and TSC doesn't have that).

 

Trainz definitely dominates when it comes to US content. A few great 3rd parties that partner with N3V (formerly Auran) is Jointed Rail, RRMods, K&L Trainz. I saw Flamerailzzzz recently released a pretty nice NJT GP40-2 with working strobes as well as long awaited NJT Comet III - V coaches and cab cars and a Metro North Comet V. For years, I have been waiting for those ever since 2009. Periodically I check out the N3V forums but hopefully they really advance in the US passenger area, as some of the US passenger content dates back to the early 2010s. For Northeastern US passenger content, TSC is definitely the way to go for now

 

No Amtrak long distance trains. Name something more iconic about US passengers(TSW now is clearly about passenger trains, not freight) operations. And the official answer last time was something like "who needs 2 services per route?".
Not like "we would find the way to create home route for Amtrak diesel trains, and then we will add set of cars for long distance trains as separate DLC". Just no one needs it.
This is how important our requests and wishes are for DTG.

 

How would you do an Amtrak long distance route to make it both fun to play and business-sensible? These routes run from 830 to 2,730 miles long. DTG's standard segment length of 50-100 miles is shorter than the gaps between some of the stations, equal to an end-to end run between many other pairs (and what's the difference between an A-B freight run and an A-B passenger run?), and even those relatively close together are still going to have a bare minimum number of stops.

And two services per day, one in each direction, is standard for these routes. Except the three (Crescent, Sunset Limited, and Texas Eagle) that run three times per week in each direction.

So are enough people really going to buy a passenger route with few stops and as many or even fewer daily services to fund the development? And does this kind of complaint really show "how important our requests and wishes are for DTG", or how important practical and business realities are to some of the community?

 

Post removed cause I'm mentality ill.

 

I already plan on getting trainz console edition day 1 ..its just sad that TSW doesnt get more US Freight i got into TSW because of its US freight content Sand Patch Grade at that time my thought was cool beans....i can run CSX freight trains on SPG on my X Box 1 console , Then first time i went into the DLC store wowww quickly bought Horseshoe Curve then i was super cool get to run NS freitght trains virtually on a iconic route..3rd DLC i bought was Sherman Hill then loved the idea UP SD70ace to run ..then i bought CN oakville for GP9 U CN ..then along came TSW 3 Cajon pass putting BNSF freight and ES44c4 after tsw 3 DTG brought US freight to a hault very sad to see how they dropped the ball for US freight since and the future not looking bright as of late .....Butttt instead of more US freight ....We get little blue fictional kiddie choo choo content thomas and friend s ..it just keeps getting worse with this whole thing theyve bothched TSW 5 the WCML thing and all the other issues Buttt Thomas will save the day...forgot to add got Clinchfield for the F7 SD40 then Cane creek

 

But what's current for you will in 20 to 30 years be Nostalgia for someone else.

 

Well one way is kinda "boring" but practical. They have Amtrak that runs on Cajon Pass. It's a scenic long climb through the mountains so it's slow, but also there's some stops on the top end. I thought Metrolink went up there too, but there's nothing on the route.

An "Amtrak game pack" would enable DTG to sell a few trains with a bunch of layers without having to build a new route just for Amtrak.

 

Well the two are entirely unrelated. You're missing the majority of TSW content which is urban passenger routes.
You also missed Cajon Pass and Sherman Hill which are 100% freight.
Maybe they wore themselves out on doing 5 US freight routes and not getting the sales they wanted from their European base?

This is why I think we could use a survey to see where people are actually from, what they actually want to buy, etc.
Not that it'd be totally accurate because most customers don't come on the forum.
(There are not 100,000+ players regularly on the forum)

 

Did you forget how to read the full post? I know, my english is bad, but I sayed "home route for Amtrak diesel trains", which means some route with sufficient amount of Amtrak services leading by diesels(ex. P42DC), and then "set of cars for long distance trains as separate DLC". And you start to come up with some new routes separately for long-distance trains with 2 services per day. Are you from DTG? Otherwise, your answers sound suspiciously similar.

 

That is another problem DTG caters more to what European uk player base wants for US routes ..that is wrong as i am a US based DTG needs to appease to what US player base wants expects as far as content ..not what European. Uk germany or any other country wants for US ...N3v s trainz game has tons of US freight content and based in uk europe ..everything with tsw and forums etc just insane

 

They "cater to" whatever sells the most. Most of the player base is European. They tend to buy European stuff. I don't even think it's specific players or groups, more like "This sold well before...let's do something like it again." Just like any other company.
It's not a big conspiracy. Just tracking sales numbers.
If you happen to like things that aren't the big sellers, then it sucks but that's how companies operate.
Just like if Trainz or whatever focus on US freight and someone says "why don't we have more European passenger EMUs?"
Well....they'll prolly say "go play TSW then. That's what they specialize in."
It's like being mad because Ferrari doesn't make many pickup trucks.
It's just not their thing.
TSW has been marketing to a different audience than TSC or Trainz or Run8, and it has resulted in a different playerbase over time.
That's just normal.
It's also normal to shop around if someone else is offering what you want.
I just picked up Trainz on sale and haven't really had a chance to get into it much, but it looks a lot like TSC.
Seems to have quite a bit NA freight. In fact MOST of it is NA freight.
There's no avatar like TSW, but for those looking for something like TSC on consoles.... well then Trainz might be a good option for those console players who can't get on TSC.

I still like the idea of more "game packs" like an Amtrak game pack that revitalizes the US freight routes and draws people in to buy/play them more in TSW. I'm not sure that many of the people in their "camps" (urban passenger vs rural freight) often get outside those bubbles and give the others a chance. A pack of Amtrak locos that you can layer onto the other routes (plus a few sales or freebies like the Sherman Hill one) could open that up.

Interestingly enough, it remains to be seen what the impact of the "Thomas Crisis" will have on the game. The influx of new people might be a positive if they're coming from a relatively unbiased perspective and "new to trains." To be fair, Sodor from what I've seen is pretty rural and freight focused (for a TV show.) Lot of variety of characters. It's definitely not just a bunch of EMUs in crowded urban centers... so potentially that's a whole generation of kids discovering what they like, and that includes older stuff, steam, freight.... and more complex scenarios which could bleed through into the regular game that is right now very rigidly timetable-focused.

I'm cautiously optimistic.

 

I did read it and interpreted it as best I could. Your explanation above does help clarify what you meant, but I'm still not sure how that's a feasible product.

I am not, but maybe there's a reason for that.

 

Why not? All we need is Chicago. TSC can release unbranded products, but TSW can't? I mean Metra license looks like pain in the ars(or someone just isn't trying hard enough), but DTG always can do what their like to do most of the time - release new route with reskins(F40PH and MP36PH locos + Gallery cars) in colors "slightly similar" to Metra + Amtrak P42DC with Horizon and Amfleet(Ctrl+C - Ctrl+V) coaches. So the only new things would be P42DC + Horizon coaches.
I won't even be angry if it will be divided to Deluxe pack for TSW6, like WCML(some Chicago based route with something looks like Metra trains) + Class 390(P42DC + Horizon + Amfleet).

 

Like I told you before it's not about sales figures. It's about sales figures and costs ratio. And as long there is no competition on consoles DTG will continue the easiest way for the. But it seems console competition is on it's way.

With competition it's like at real train engineering. Look if there would be GE in America only. There would be most likely 1 way for future sustainable freight locos in Northern America. But there is a competitor, EMD. So both are developing Battery and Hydrogen locos.

 

Exactly. Even real railways were invented in England and DTG has their base there the UK stuff in the meantime is almost such big like the american and german stuff together.

 

But as I told YOU before...we're saying the same thing. Profit is the sales minus the cost. However, since there aren't huge differences in costs across the studio, it boils down to sales by default. Your post didn't actually say anything about costs or sales that was new information. Yes, the European market is bigger than the US market, and the UK market is even bigger. I said that.
What is your point?

You see "competition" but there's ways to respond to it besides "invest more."
There's also "cut costs" and "get out of the market."
For DTG in particular, just not doing US freight is the easiest option.
It cuts their costs and frees up more resources to make more urban passenger stuff.
Besides, if freight somehow becomes popular later they can always have third parties do it.

They're not heavily invested in NA freight right now, so it doesn't make sense to invest more in it when the competitor is almost ENTIRELY that focus. It's not a good business decision to fight your opponent where they are strong and you are weak.
That's the worst business decision.

 

If it is economics. Yes you can cut costs by cutting content. Yes and you can increase the profif in that way. But there is one important condition, there should be no competition like for TSW on consoles at the moment. As long there is competition, the easy way from above is possible. But it will cost you income too. Because the customers have will go there, where they get what they want.

And sure competition will let the profits of the former monopolist shrink.

That all is economics base knowledge.

 

As a lifelong resident, I would love to see Chicago, but sadly Metra and CTA aren't cooperating. Between those two local operators, our status as Amtrak's national hub and our huge amount of freight traffic passing through, I'm sure DTG has tried very hard.

Branding is one major difference between TSC and TSW. And simply ignoring branding that's difficult to get could be seen as disrespectful and damage both existing and future business relationships. Not a good way to go.

I might have misunderstood and thought you wanted full or partial long distance routes rather than just the equipment layering on current routes.

 

Is there some other main stations in US with big amount of Amtrak diesel trains per day?
LA with Surfliner? But P42DC is a rare guest(long distance only?), cause PS mostly operated by SC-44.
DC with the NER heading to/from Virginia?

 

Some possible examples:

1. Washington Union Station
2. Philadelphia 30th Street Station
3. Baltimore Penn Station
4. New Haven Union Station