Enough Is Enough Thomas And Friends Edition

Because it is a cheap shot. No-one on here would like to be told they should be sacked.

Who is the poster to decide that any member of DTG staff has underperformed, that would be for DTG to decide not someone angry on a forum who has decided to throw their toys out of their pram, it wasn't constructive.

 

This is so damn stupid. I don't know how much it cost, but put this thomas and friends thing in their roblox train sim world tycoon. I mean, nobody asked about thomas and friends here. Maybe those kids in roblox want it. Why does DTG not listen to our suggestions???

 

It's called 'market research and catering to the large audience'. DTG seemed to have concluded themselves creating DLC'S and content is 'too expensive for the core player base'.

 

This dlc is literally not that deep. It's only 1 dlc out of many realistic ones.

Also just so you know, dtg have brought many suggestions into tsw. Players wanted a route for example Brighton mainline and dtg delivered. Players wanted more features and dtg delivered. So dtg is listening to suggestions all the time

 

My advice to the people who sit on my side of the fence is to let people talk down to you in a patronising and dismissive manner, but sit, wait, and be patient and watch how the long game pans out. Give it a year and it'll be a case of "I told you so... ". Will the same people be willing to eat their own hat when the quality decline and casual gamer demographic appeal sets in? I think not... I'm willing to respect a difference in opinion but this whole thing of particular forum members treating and talking down to other forum members like they are wearing a dunce cap because they criticise something (which to me is valid and should be a concern) just gets under my skin a bit.

That's not to say there will be a decline in third party standards but just DTGs which seems to be going this way with their UK content, given the state of WCMLS upon release and this tripe.

I was once a massive defender of DTGs but they've really knocked my confidence in them as a company at the moment (if you can't already tell). I've become quite disheartened in the direction the game seems to be heading toward, by becoming a game for casual gamers and not your hardcore SIM or railway enthusiast player. I don't think that'll change in the coming months either unfortunately...

 

I just do not see why this is some form of death of TSW though. What evidence is there that they're catering to the "casual gamer"? Collectables? Points? Mastery? The stuff that's been there for years and yet the game hasn't died? I'm genuinely asking why everyone's so doom and gloom over this, considering we have had multiple fictional DLCs for Train Sim Classic, and that's now being branded the serious one because it doesn't (officially) have Thomas in.

 

And those on a similar wavelength to you aren't patronising and dismissive to others? Because as far as I can see, it is.

 

Thomas is just one of the issues for me...

There's nothing wrong with collectables in the game etc... They are just a novelty or extra for some people, but do absolutely do nothing for me, and I don't bother with them. The TSW5 decline seems to have started with WCMLS being considered acceptable upon release, and if it wasn't for the old sweats on here kicking up a stink it would not have been sorted or improved to the extent it was (and will be improved more) and we would of just of to have accepted it's quality. I think we will find the same problem with the next British route too... I think DTG outsourced the entire route to Rivet and knew the quality would be very shoddy, but in doing so would only be noticed by the more hardcore and not the casual gamer types who do not have the same eye for detail. Unfortunately this massively backfired and I don't think they anticipated the uproar it caused. Thomas is the next step in the decline of the game for me, it again, appeals as a novelty feature and is a stupid attempt to appeal a simulation game to a more casual/child audience. It might seem harmless on the surface, but if the same amount of effort that went into developing some silly novelty feature actually went into fixing the core features in the game I'd be far more impressed... It might seem harmless on the surface, but to me when effort and resources are put into some silly novelty side game, I fill in the blanks and can see where DTGs priorities are aimed... What next some cartoon based add on? Adult content losing its edge and becoming more diluted and losing its edge as a consequence of appealing to the casual gamer?

I think we are going to see DTGs overall quality become diluted, dishearten the hardcore players, but appeal to the casual less hardcore gamers who don't have an eye for detail and less room to complain and allow standards to drop in the long run.

Time will tell, but that's the feeling I get where the game is heading. Unless feedback is received on the matter and is actually listened too.

I've no issue with DTG adding Thomas to the their licences and titles but would of been better received by the community if it was developed as a separate game entirely and to leave TSW as a simulation.

 

Is that all of the community? As I'm sure I've seen several posts on here saying the opposite including me unless we don't count as part of the community!

 

This entire Thomas Thing has been such riff raff...over what?


Yes, DTG announcing it as a big reveal, was a very stupid decision, and should have been something announced in during the middle of it. instead of the end.

but the way some of the community has acted has been pathetic and cringe, taking this too much to heart..

there are bigger problems to be worrying about in this world, than some Thomas DLC.


On a side note, im enjoying the snow here in Manchester, it’s coming down quite a bit, not sure about anyone else

 

To be more specific then, I'll amend that to 'parts of the community'.

I've said all I can say on the matter from my point of view now and have been very vocal with opposing views, so there's nothing more I can add at this stage. So I'm going to leave this particular matter to reveal itself over the coming year...

 

I'm buying it day one. Sod it. It'll annoy people when it's released and I find it hilarious.

 

Without this coming across the wrong way, I am sure many (dare I use the word most?) couldn't give a rats arse whether you buy it or not.

Not directly firing at just yourself here, and I am only skimming these threads, but something that really sticks out is the extremism on both sides of the fence, which, as I have said, will not get us, as a whole, anywhere. Some of the posts from people who are sticking up for this DLC are just as laughable as the petition set up by the poor lad with the Man City profile picture.

 

To start, I do agree that this should've been a separate thing.

On the quality thing, it's perhaps good to remember DTG have always been hit and miss. The one that springs to mind is the Class 321, which (aside from the cab model) recycled traction sounds from the class 455, and the door sounds from the class 483 (it's been a decade and I'm still puzzled by it). A little bit later, Weardale & Teesdale released, which is an anbsolutely fantastic route.

Hopefully, Cardiff will turn into another Cathcart; chastised and shredded at announcement, but actually ended up being pretty well received. Perhaps I'm overly optimistic.

 

For me it was the DTG made Class 456 from South London Line and Class 465/0 from Chatham Mainline that were some of the worst representation of rolling stock I'd ever seen in TSC! The 456 was a really rushed bodge job... And the original 465/0 used a recycled 166 cab I believe! The minute the AP 456 and Class 465/0 enhancement packs come out, I got them as I could not stand DTGs attempts at either! That was going back about 13 or 14 years ago now I believe so it shows my age!

 

Remember the time they tried charging £11.99 for a FCC reskin for the 377?

Also SLN was 2014 and Chatham was 2016. Are you not thinking of the really old 465 for London - Faversham from 2013?

 

We wanted NYT but were given a quarter-baked route infested with bugs. We wanted ECML South (London to Peterborough) but were given a bland section instead. The second I reached Newark Northgate, I just quit and called it a day, and of course, we wanted the Class 390 to only have the route selling its soul to the devil by the infamous "Rivet" leaving the route infested again with bugs and missing services from the timetable. We should be careful about what we wish for going forward. I can't think of one route apart from the Goblin Line that has been successfully made by DTG in-house since SEHS, London Commuter and Nahverkehr Dresden.

 

Weirdly enough the original 465/2 wasn't to bad it was actually pretty good. It was the 465/0 variant for the London to Rainham route that was utterly horrendous. Must of got the dates mixed!

I was guilty enough to purchase the FCC 377 at full price as I was a 19 year old and completely impatient for any Steam sales! Would never do it now at that price!

 

I can guarantee whoever buys this will be denounced as some sort of fanboy or DTG pleaser, or whatever names are being used nowadays. It's bound to happen, if history is anything to go by. I can already hear some of those comments as I speak.

Honestly, some - actually most, and I'm probably right in saying that (not that I care if I'm not) - just like to take it all too personal to the point they act like we're against them for doing what we want with our money.

 

Oh the extremism from both sides has been hilarious, it's the most fun I've had in weeks.....I need to get out more lol.

 

Er, snow did you say? My eyesight must be failing me. You should pay a visit to the US Midwest. We'll show you what snow looks like.

 

Yeah. Right now it looks like The White Knights are slightly ahead of the Forces of Darkness.
But it's still anybody's game. Place your bets, though it's looking increasingly like the old Mexican Standoff.

 

I think people are focusing too much on Thomas and not the mountain of content coming in 2025, there's really something for everyone.


In terms of content variety we have never had it better, whether or not these products will be any good is yet to be seen but there's more to it than just Thomas

 

I've re-evaluated my opinion of DTG regarding the TTTE DLC, I thought they were complete clowns for mis-reading their community so badly, turns out they pulled a blinder of publicity genius, this topic has had more foot traffic on all media platforms than any other DTG announcement, in regards to advertising there is no such thing as bad publicity, only publicity, well played, well played.

Now if they got as good at actually making TSW as they did hyperboling it then we'd be onto a real winner.

 

Yes, several us have pointed this out but some don't want to listen, we just get told that this is the start of DTG abandoning "serious" simmers.

There will be even more than that to come from DTG, I suspect this might only cover the period up until the summer.

There is something for everyone, almost, a period steam route is sorely missing.

 

I am really looking forward to the Manchester Airport Commuter, Mannheim-Kaiserslautern and the Cardiff City Network. They really excite me, especially the MAC route.

 

Class 20 is a glorified reskin.
Class 104 is pretty much vapourware.
Cargo Line is yet another wagon pack with no new UK freight loco.
Tadami is borderline vapourware.
Cardiff City is a poor substitute for one or more full length Valley Lines (though admittedly the 150 and 153 look to be okay).
Manchester Airport is another electric bus service using an EMU that already exists in game.

About the only two items guaranteed to pique my interest are the Mittendwaldbahn from TSG and the JT Class 86 and stock pack. Though the latter also dependent on DTG getting to grips with the performance issues. Dutch route of some interest but as has been stated, not the most exciting or iconic section of Holland's railways.

So DTG are going to have to work harder than that to get my money in 2025.

 

His point, though, is that everyone is focusing way too much on Thomas and nothing else.

 

I don't agree with anything you said. You are getting up in arms over nothing. Comments like those are common with products that may under deliver or go against a central theme of a product. Products that come to mind are the Star Wars Sequels and Joker Folie À Deux which were movies that were poorly recieved and resulted in people calling for executives and the directors to be sacked. It may be harsh but it is understandable why someone may have a view like that

 

My biggest concern around Cardiff Sprinter is that it will be a repeat of the WCMLS saga... A 'release in a very poor state, and fix later because old sweats are moaning' type attitude, but take peoples money and then claim that the number of new players in the game is a good reason to dismiss legitimate concerns around quality issues!

 

Regarding tadami, dlcs don't get made in a single day. For a very small 3rd party dev new to unreal engine and tackling a long and highly scenic route with new train is going to take a while.

 

"Release now, Fix later" ought to be DTG's motto at this point. They have been doing that long before WCML came out.

 

Almost is right. There's no sign of a US route.

 

I could have guessed you wouldn't agree with anything I said, and frankly I am not bothered!

 

Yes agreed, I have very much got into US routes since in the last few years and hope there will be something mentioned on the next roadmap, especially another freight route.

 

Which no-one has ever said!

 

The Tadami line had some new screen shots showed in the reveals last month and we were shown an imagine of a new wagon for the PFR pack. It seems a lot of trouble to go to for something that they aren't going to release.

You have developed for train sims yourself so I imagine you should know more than anyone that things take time.

 

But you just admitted that Mittenwaldbahn and the 86 interest you so you've proven my point.

Class 20 a reskin? You're having a laugh

 

Bothered enough to respond however

 

No, really, not bothered. I doubt there is anything I ever have said you will have agreed with.

 

I don't think CCN will have a detrimental effect as much as WCML South. The only reason people kicked up a stink was just because it was a major flagship UK route as well was one of the most requested at the time. Same can be said for NYT which is also a major US flagship route, but was released in a half-baked state.

 

Yes they did there are 3 or 4 in the suggestions thread from 2022-2023.

Nowhere near a majority but Thomas has been requested a few times on Streams as well. I know on one of Matt's 24 hour streams there was lots of discussion.

It was a couple of years back though.

So its unfair to make the claim no one has requested this.

 

Why cant they cater to both?

I mean like MSFS does.

 

There's no reason they can't, but within reason.

Now correct me if I am wrong, but MSFS has larger resources and staff for multiple projects. DTG seem to focus on a single project at a time and throw resources at it.

If DTG can't improve the AI timetables in multiple add ons as one example, that are in urgent need of an update and haven't got the resources to do that, then they wouldn't be able to jungle both, it seems very much one or the other.

Not against the idea, I just don't believe it's possible with DTGs current resources by the evidence of them not revisiting previous routes for needed updates.

We seem to get drip fed updates over a period of time rather then urgently (I'm not against that policy by the way, just on the subject of resources).

 

As far as I'm aware DTG has several different teams working on different projects already.

For example the team going over bugs is separate from the team doing the Wales route.

I believe right now they have a team doing bugs, a separate team working on each route that has been announced and team that has already been working on Thomas since November.

Not saying it works efficiently currently but they do have 200 employees so they aren't that small.

But yes MSFS has way more resources but also they have been at it since the 80's. Perhaps in the 2050's DTG will catch up.

But to say it should only be developed for the hardcore simmer, then it should have only been released on PC and your narrowing the game down to a niche game.

Where the whole concept was to finally break out of being a niche product and start to make more $$$. By bringing in the whole console market. I can honestly say that true hardcore simmers don't use consoles.

Also I'm a casual simmer so I'm a little heartbroken you would want me to be kicked out of the game.

 

For all those saying 'why all the backlash'

we waited 20 days for this reveal to end all reveals (literally)

could it be the SWML? It's been requested for a very long time and would certainly prove a hit, providing a fitting end to this "advent calendar".*

could it be the entire Metropolitan Line? The community would love it and again, it would be a worthy final announcement.*

could it b- No. A fictional tank engine. If it were in the main body of the event, sure, but as the grand finale which many serious rail enthusiasts are very much looking forward to - it's another massive DTG disappointment.

* - just as examples

 

Yes a hit for some on the forums but there would have been plenty of non UK simmers who also would have been disappointed with that.

 

Those were just examples, have clarified

 

World hunger? War in Ukraine? German government fallen? Grooming gangs scandal? No, we have to get our knickers in a twist over an imaginary shunting engine. Jeez.