Enough Is Enough!!! The Ongoing Saga!!! It's Almost The 3 Year Anniversary

I bought a T5 drive which my TSC install sits on, loads up and plays pretty much as quick as on the main drive.

 

They are for the most but the leaves are still on the hardwood trees in Canada in the game; Dec 29 looks like July 29

 

I don't know if it belongs here, but during the holidays I had a look back at TSC after years with focus on TSW. And I must say... now I'm dissapointed with TSW, even I just played "Quickdrive" in TSC. There are so many routes, locos and repaints worldwide I almost forgot about it. Downloading a repaint is sometimes even easier than with TSW. In TSW I never had the feeling of travelling really far with high speed trains, other in TSC, where you can drive e.g. from Frankfurt / M the whole track up to Düsseldorf (for example, with route hopping). And what I also found interesting that many of the big stations or interesting routes are just converted (more ore less) from TSC to TSW. Where is the really new content? For German regional trains, we have always the same Dostos and EMUs.

Of course, the routes from the beginning to today are longer and more detailed. But after already more than 7 years the functional range is still not on the level of TSC. What TSW has in advanage for me are the graphics and more realistic signaling and safety systems. Also you can rely on more modern implementation of the trains (quality level). But I miss the long routes and the range of the wide community-driven contents.

 

I have dipped in and out of TSC which can be satisfying with route length etc. Problem is no timetable mode, TSWs single best attribute in my eyes. TSC even in quick drive mode is either empty or predictable. TSW physics apart from Steam traction are better. In TSC I managed to release the brakes on a Sherman hill consist immediately and start moving. That's not good at all. TSW could do with AP developing for it as the level of detail they get down to would be appreciated. That would provide a contrast with the direction DTG are going in.

 

I agree. There are 3rd party developers for TSC providing scenarios, but they are limited and require a rather big investment when you don’t own the required content. The timetable mode is much easier.

What do you mean by „AP developing“

 

Routes made in tsc to tsw is not just a simple port or conversion like you are implying. Tsw requires everything to be rebuilt from scratch and there's so much more content to create. Tsc also has over a decades worth of content and tons of 3rd parties. Many requested dlc in tsw is already made in tsc and only creating brand new content never done before, there would be nothing left to create. They couldn't just get a brand new license or create a new country just like that. They couldn't also do like all steam era routes or something cuz then variety decreases.

 

I do find it odd that you can "forget" how diverse the content on TSC is! Anyway - Just remember - the origins of that game are 2007 - thats 18 years ago - and people have been modifying it and releasing content for it ever since - TSW is a lot more complex, i.e a lot harder for the every day man to mod and much newer!

 

To some extent that is because DTG sat on the tools for several years. Then released the route etc. editor with TSW4, but no instructions not even a PDF sheet just a very brief YT clip. Nothing since. I tried briefly and failed, not because of the difficulty but the simple lack of instructions or attempt to customise UE naming conventions to a more user friendly form (actors, WTH). And as we have seen from recent reports get so far and get stuck, or one wrong/missing step and the project crashes. And DTG haven’t even officially enabled cooking yet so no one is going to waste hours on a project you can’t share with others.

As has been said, the editor was a cynical marketing tool to sell TSW4 and/or a means of recruiting anyone who could make any semblance of headway to the paid third party programme. So unlike TSC there is unlikely to ever be a plethora of freeware and independent payware route builders.

And as for third party rolling stock, well again we are hardly awash with new independent content. A few wagon packs, a DMU which has sunk into development hell and, um, not much else.

 

While I agree with most of your post, I have to say that actors aren't just for scenery. You are able to place down scenery models without them being actors, but it is not recommended for a variety of reasons.

It isn't DTG's responsibility to rename things in Unreal. TS' editor had a number of odd names for things like lofts too. It's worth noting that pretty much any Unreal 4 tutorial will teach you early on how to use actors. Actors are incredibly useful when used properly.

The lack of documentation for regular Unreal features like scenery is not an issue, because it's easy to learn it yourself. The problem begins with signalling and track laying really. To be fair though, only RailWorks came with a proper manual for the editor which is quite outdated now. Most people who have learnt how to build routes in TS are either self-taught or used online tutorials.

 

OK this could be true: The most interesting routes were covered already in TSC and it would be no oppertunity for TSW to create just the boring routes

It's sad that from the beginning with the MSTS the routes became more realistic and more beautiful, but always shorter. I remember my first add-on for MSTS with the route "Cologne-Aachen", which covered not only the main track, but also the small routes to Jülich and Heimbach. Maybe DTG and its providers should offer more "linked routes" in TSW.

TSC needs to be supported the next years, because both TSW and TSC have other advantages.

 

Sad thing, because as I said, development of the platform then becomes very slowly and there is no positive pressure (or motivation) to get moving with new content.

 

Around 8 months to TSW6 !

 

Oh, they are working on it, as we speak, regardless of topic.
They are polishing up the broken stuff then an announcement of the new train and route from Japan, as it "may" be bundled with TSW6. Yes?

 

A little more Dystopian...

 

The routes get shorter with each platform, I have often flagged this up as an issue but people shout 'it's more difficult now' I acknowledge that to be the case but it doesn't make the end product any more interesting when it's shorter with every evolution. Glasgow to Edinburgh is a solid example. MSTS Making Tracks version came with both Falkirk routes and a ton of rolling stock, TSC version came with both Falkirk routes and the Grangemouth Branch and track but no scenery to Stirling and several items of rolling stock. The TSW version is Falkirk High route only with a 385 only and that's before looking at shortcomings well documented.

It's no good trotting out excuses if the software is so complicated that the regular DLC releases are are getting shorter and less value for money every time. Feels like shrinkflation even if it isn't.

 

Can't wait for the reactions to tomorrow's roadmap

 

Hopefully there's something positive, there's too much negative energy lately.

 

I'd quite like to see a release date for this Welsh network. That would be amazing

 

Despite its compact nature, this is the one I’m quite looking forward to, mainly for the 150 and 153. Fingers firmly crossed though Rivet have not been allowed anywhere near them and they are all new models and sounds. As noted elsewhere, can’t believe DTG have created two new rolling stock assets just for this little route and would like to think something more expansive is on the whiteboard. Add a TfW SHG conversion of their 158 and you have a nice little fleet ready to tackle the Marches Line or Shrewsbury - Wrexham (Bidston) - Chester.

 

It absolutely is good enough, because it's not "trotting out excuses", it's the truth. It is utterly impossible to create a MSTS size route for TSW and sell it for the same price, since the graphical quality is vastly increased and it takes far more time to create every asset.
Or do you have a solution you can share with us?

Since you described increasing quality in return for shorter routes as "less value for money every time", it seems like the increase in quality from MSTS to TSW holds no value for you, which is perfectly fine. In that case, why not just abandon TSW and go and play MSTS/OpenRails instead? There is a huge library of addons for it.

 

Ok so if this carrys through to the next simulator platform the routes and content will be even shorter again.

No thanks

Will play what I choose thank you and comment accordingly having been around and spent a lot on DLC for all platforms.

 

I like the idea of some fresh thrashy sprinters. Plus a network is always a fun wee drive. It's also good to see Wales is finally getting some love

 

Short recap of the January Roadmap:

Mannheim-Kaiserslautern releasing January 30th, has only reused content (BR 425, ICE 3M, BR 185.2 AGAIN, BR 111)
Mittenwaldbahn releasing in February
Recap of Season of Reveals, with new screenshots of Mildmay Line and Class 86/2
Next patches are optimizations to WCMLS and FTF
Spotlight on some PC Editor creations
TSW Tracked (looks like a Spotify Wrapped ripoff ngl)

 

Let me guess, the BR 185.2 that is reused have the same too loud buzzing giving you a headache after 5 min too.

And another thing from the roadmap
Manchester Commuter was on 0-3 months in November now it's release date TBC.

 

Thomas comes next year(whit TSW6) i've readed correct?

 

believe that’s a typo, seems to be copied and pasted from the reveals

 

And it suggests that players are driving an average of 13000 kilometres per play session too. DTG still not very good at counting.

 

I also can’t believe WCMLS so popular. As they say, lies, damn lies and statistics.

It probably scored highly from players keep going back to see if they can get a bug/crash free run!

 

Well my theory about them sacking most of the developers is well known. Now it seems they have AI doing the PR as well!

 

No Wales news. Sad

 

We don't even know what did they account for? Is it all the TSW routes available including SEHS, London Commuter etc? It's may be fair to say WCML South had an atrocious launch as to why it's likely less popular than Frankfurt - Fulda. Though I guess the love affection for the Class 390 still carries on as well as playing on one of the UK's flagship route, despite the timetable is still half - baked.

 

To be fair the times I have fired WCMLS up it has more or less behaved itself. The 350 and 390 are both reasonable trains. It’s the shoddy Rivet route building that lets it down and of course the core performance issues, which are actually worse on the Shap route.

 

I've found myself going back to WCMLS quite a lot as it goes. I like it. I don't know why but I do. And I'm on Xbox Series X too.

 

There were also expressions of surprise that WCMLS made it through two rounds of the tournament. Good recent example of how some people's priorities aren't everyone's, and how "not good enough for me" =/= "not good enough".

 

I find WCMLS is now a very good route. They have done a lot of work on it. The timetable is a lot busier.

I think it just shows that we shouldn't assume that what seems to be the majority opinion in this echo chamber is so.

 

As I said, the 350 and 390 bring you back to it. Though mildly disappointed last night continuing the Journey to find the next element was a shunt move at Watford to the Abbey platform and er, that’s it. Next element is an ECS move from Bletchley TMD to Bletchley station. Not much imagination, there.

 

The issue they have is that they haven't controlled for release dates. So obviously the routes that released as core routes are going to have higher play time. Because they're released first and people buy them as core routes. So you're right the statistics are not representative of real numbers at all.

If they controlled for release dates the statistics would be much more accurate. For example you'd divide total play time by days released and have a time played per day which would show a more accurate representation of time played across every route. Not that DTG would ever do that because it might show their core routes are nowhere near as successful as they claim to be

 

i swear every time when there is a "fanboy moment" it drives me insane
like this bloke over here.

After some influence from other Train Sim related videos, I am glad I started to jump ship to TSC and bit more redundant when looking at TSW, for my case it was starting to buy less DLC and invest more on TSC. I will give you a short description as to pretty much what TSW is. "Putting lipstick on a pig". I honestly feel like the main selling point here is merely just "wow look at those pretty graphics, ignore how our old game have a longer version of this route." And jesus the amount of times that there are reused assets in routes and trains and heck in more cases, no new train at all. Some are excusable some just outright aren't and get really kill an interest for a player other than a specific location is in there.

Anyway, I am moving a thought in a recent post in another thread said how when people uses the word "fanboys" are petty. There is a reason why this community uses the word fanboy to describe somebody, over protecting and shutting down any criticism towards developers because criticism would "hurt the devs", encouraging developers to be more lazier and lazier with the routes and buying anything and everything that TSW pumps out and possibly more that I cant think of. Even if the "fanboy" doesnt buy a specific add-on and would yell at people that would give criticism to "if you aint buy it, dont buy it" which still doesnt work because if your praising a poor route that much and you're not buying it what exactly give you the rights to praise about it. I disagree anything to what a fanboy would say because the things they say is honestly ridiculous that is honestly frustrating to even read it out. If we dont have fanboys this community would've been a lot more enjoyable.

 

And i just want to keep emphasising.
for 29.99 pounds for WCMLS on TSW but only going up to milton keynes with pretty graphics.
for 24.99 pounds for WCMLS on TSC but you can go all the way up Birmingham with maybe some EPs here and there to enhanced your experience and guess what, you dont have to pull out another 14.99 pounds to get the pendolino. That is what you call a downgrade. But hey DTG already balled from making full routes again because excuses.

a good example of at least what I think TSW should've done over TSC.
for 24.99 pounds for WCML Over Shap on TSC.
for 32.99 pounds for WCML Over Shap on TSW.
ignoring the fact both of version of the same route is created by different developers. At least when paying for Over Shap on TSW alone, basically has what the TSC version originally have, there might be some rolling stock differences here and there. But at least the route coverage is the if not nearly identical to what the TSC version have. The more noticeable coverage that was cut was the line from Morecambe to the harbour (idk what that line is called). Even without the class 86 and mk2D/F. This is what you call an upgrade from the TSC over shap to TSW's version of over shap.

And when fanboys keep yelling at people about appreciating the developers who make routes for the game, how about lets actually appreciate the developers that makes and those route that are actually an upgrade from the TSC versions.

 

Unfortunately, haters such as yourself cannot grasp the fact that there are people who actually like the game, and denounce those that do as enemies of the state as if its some sort of crime.

Maybe accepting that not everyone is the same would make this a better place, rather than haters like you waging war on anyone who disagrees with them.

 

The spur at Morecambe on the TSC version of the Shap route is to Heysham. I believe JT left it out as by the time the route is set, the section was virtually mothballed.

As regards the TSC version, well in fairness without any mods it is looking a bit dated now and some of the track laying and curvature is a bit dodgy. Out the box you also only get the usual limited number of scenarios, not the all day timetable. However at least TSC has a useable player editor, unlike TSW where the editor put me in mind of what the people do at their workstations in the TV show Severance! Also TSC you can download the Workshop version which includes the Windermere Branch.

Main advantage of the TSC version is it runs smooth as butter, no rancid stuttering or sound distortion.

 

Or consider that hate isn't how everyone feels, Where's the fixes and value for money? Many of us just want improvements having spent a lot of money over time. Frustrated is another way of describing it with out getting too dramatic. I will continue pushing devs and being vocal if a product isn't good enough.

 

The next German modern route has no new stock just 'improved' versions of older stuff. There must be enough day one crowd buyers to make this business model work as I wouldn't touch it at full price without a new Rolling stock item. We are where we are and it would be great if things improved. Spent some time on TVL yesterday pondering wether I should try and make a realistic timetable for it now more stock is about such as the 142. Its frustating that only a fraction of trains are timetabled. Very much on the fence over wether it's worth it or not.....

 

+1
I don’t consider myself either a hater or a fanboy, just a customer. If I was the former, then just uninstall the game and go away. Most of us post constructive criticism because we want the game to improve and reach its full potential. Some of DTG’s priorities in that respect do seem a little bizarre and it can be hard at times to see why some people blindly support everything they do. Perhaps “fanboy” or I guess these days fanperson is going a bit far but it can be frustrating to see abject praise heaped when so much needs sorting out. At least one poster who I always had great respect for and seemed to take a middle ground, now seems to have gone on a vendetta blaming users’ hardware when, 1. Previous iterations of the game never ran this badly, 2. The stutters and sound squelching are at irregular intervals. If the PC or console was responsible it would be happening constantly, not when the code bunches up and freaks out. 3. PS5 uses standard hardware and still get issues. 4. The numerous “one unders” on several routes can hardly be blamed on hardware, but shonky programming and/or route building accompanied by a shoulder shrug from the EP at something which could be quite upsetting for anyone who has experienced a fatality. 5. The preponderance of identikit routes (honourable exception to TSG and JT) can’t be blamed on hardware either.

 

There are better ways to go about it than resorting to petty name calling just because someone views something in a way you don't like.

 

I enjoy the game and I play the game.
That's why I get so frustrated at it because it could be so much better than it is. There's so much potential for TSW and I'll continue to voice my opinion to try and help DTG improve on it.

 

Well put, if I hated it I wouldn't play it. During the no old UK content years it got uninstalled for a while.

 

TSW have the advantage of an already set timetable mode of you can drive on, or go into it and manually spawn in a train for a quick drive and have timetable mode trains be a.i trains. These are the main 2 functions I have mainly and mostly use throughout my time with TSW and what I honestly like and what I wish something TSC would have. Not that you can walk on to the platform that is. The only downside is that you gotta buy a lot of trains for the different ai trains used in other scenarios.

to be honest, the only one only advantage I can see with reusing rolling stocks. Is that at least you get those old rolling stocks that you dont have at first when they were first release, and you get a new route. Thats it. For example that very silly Manchester route. I did not have the Northern 323. The only reason I would get them is because 323s are working with northern now thats it. Other than that I wouldn't even consider buying it, heck I might as well buy some similar route on TSC which is worth more of my buck. (And i checked. the manchester route that connects to manchester airport doesnt seem to exist for TSC).

+1 from me too.
As a customer, TSW have broke and lost me ever since the WCMLS doesnt go to Birmingham, the countless times that routes just cuts in such unreasonable places because excuse excuses and excuses and fanboys kept overprotecting. Certain trains wasnt bought into the game which bugs me to no end because TOCs dont like the idea of trains being preserved in a game (ik its outside of the developers fault but still viewing this as a whole). Even when they put very detail in sceneries which is one other standpoint of TSW compared to TSC, some parts of different routes arent even done well and is just flat grass textures, if i want to look at flat grass textures I would rather look at them from TSC. Thats most of the reasons why I can think of I am disliking TSW as time goes on.
I still wish to buy the SCR 158, the centro 323, island line and the upcoming class 86 and Mk2D/F. The first 2 are at a very low priority while the last 2 have a proper purpose. One is for the GWE Remaster the other is a desperately needed rolling stock for modern railtours, I simply couldnt stand Mk3As on railtours anymore. And god the amount of times the class 66s are constantly being reused in every damn UK route. At this point DTG might as well have the Class 66 sold just like what they did in TSC, buy it as a sole add on that can be used to be layered on to multiple routes.

Mainly the route cutting shouldn't even be happening in the first place and thats what I see fanboys keeps encouraging the developers to do. And jesus look at WCMLS, having the community to help shouldn't even have happen in the first place if the route was done right at launch.

As I stated before about what function in TSW that I actually enjoy and regularly uses. We all have the rights and allow to voice opinions to the developers to what they can do better. Unlike fanboys who kept praising developers mindlessly like what OldVern have said in their previous post. And fanboys just kept shutting down people who give their opinion and criticism which are actually useful.