Do People With Real Steam Engine Experience Like Steam In Tsw

IF YOU HAVE EXPERIENCE ON STEAM ENGINES AND UNDERSTAND HOW TO DRIVE THEM BUY THEM!!!!

I Just Purchased the Peak Forest route and I wish I had sooner.

All I’ve seen is everyone saying that they are unable to complete the scenario’s and with Dovetail stopping the development due to issues I thought it must have been bad.

I have a little experience with Steam engines on a preservation line and lucky enough to have the opportunity to drive multiple times and Hats off to Dovetail I think the problem is they made it too realistic for players with no experience.

Managing Momentum and boiler pressure is no easy task but it can be done aslong as you watch your boiler pressure and start bringing it back up when it’s dropping too much even if it means you start slowing a little bit cos without it you’ll stop.

Little tip aswell for The blowing off pressure when stopped for a few minutes.

Apply combined brake 100%

Open Cylinder Drains

Keep in direction of travel 75%

Apply 20% power

You’ll drain steam out your cylinders and it’s quiet

Don’t forget to build pressure before moving again.

I Honestly Give Peak Forest a 10/10 it’s not easy but if you enjoy a challenge and keep an eye on your pressure you will succeed.

I see loads of videos of “the best train sim players on here” and they know nothing you see every one of them doing the banking scenario they slip the front engine and wonder why they aren’t gaining momentum.

Personally I think the steam engines Should have the EXPERT label because if you don’t know what to listen for and what you’re doing you may struggle and you can’t give a tutorial on how to do it right every time because where the reverser and regulator sit nicely for gaining speed or Boiler pressure is never the same it all depends on speed, load, and gradient.

Personally after playing a full steam route I want more engines like an austerity would go really nice.

And maybe the non experienced soon will have Thomas mode where the regulator becomes a throttle and they can finally fly up the hill out the quarry at 55mph

(THOMAS MODE: Full boiler pressure constant. No blowing off.) available to players without the Thomas dlc would probably be the only way to get people who don’t know steam engines but like the look and sounds the ability to enjoy them while giving the enthusiasts the real experience of steam.

 

Thank you for asking for more steam, lots of people want it but it does feel like it's been abandoned. I just hope DTG are quietly working on it behind the scenes, or are at least making provisions so that 3rd party devs can work on it. I haven't given up all hope yet we will get more steam. I think a J94 or a GWR Pannier would be my first choice for the next loco made.

 

I agree. I have no experience with steam locomotives, and from my own thread in the off-topic forum, I can see that very few people on here have actual experience with steam in real life. I haven't asked where people have got their expectations of Steam physics from though. I know DTG spoke to actual Jubilee drivers for Spirit of Steam.

I guess we're all just disappointed that we didn't get a proper manual fireman, or proper water controls like we were promised.

Deep down, I am of the belief that steam physics are broken because we kept asking DTG to change the physics model. It's probably not true, but I'm sure the original steam physics were fine. I also like to imagine that DTG may be able to just reinstate the original physics and claim to have fixed steam and we'd be none the wiser.

But yeah... steam is hard, and I'm glad you brought this up, because I didn't have the courage to.

 

I’m Glad I’m not alone Guys since writing this I’ve literally just ran up the bank again with limestone for fun and actually had to slow for the 15 like I think if they made an option for players to just enjoy simple steam with a full boiler pressure no matter how open the regulator is would be good maybe have steam off the rails means the locos are just Diesel engines that chuff so be it I think they’d win a lot of hearts and minds by giving people the option to enjoy it without having to get stressed out working with the fireman plus has anyone realised that you can stand at the fireman’s position and open the doors and coal goes in and it seemed to increase my pressure so maybes it works but in real life you would be a mad man to go out in an engine like this with less than a crew of three so why do people wanna try and do it themselves maybe on a narrow gauge steam loco bring firing into it but for a standard gauge loco I disagree I think people would be chewing off too much you’d miss a signal by watching the boiler or drain your boiler watching signals and with the hud off good luck remembering route knowledge, boiler presser, boiler level (are you on a hill cos if you’re going down hill you should have no water in the glass or very little) keeping an eye on signals, building your fire for a few minutes at a time you’d quit and go back to just being a driver in no time

ON ANOTHER NOTE

GUARD BRAKEMAN ON UNFITTED TRAINS
Would be amazing listening to whistle codes for assisted braking

FIREMAN MODE
Would need to have some input with driving cos if the regulator is fully open and you’re losing pressure you’d need to be able to stop the regulator happy driver

 

Mentioning no names, but I just watched a YouTube video where a long-time DTG ambassador had a mental breakdown and panic attack, because he had never seen a flashing yellow signal aspect, and couldn't decide if it was safe to drive past or not... Think it's about 5 years he's been doing this now?

So yeah, if any route looks cool to you, chances are you'll probably like it, regardless of what the "experts" say.... and if it's 50-75% off during a sale, you've got nothing to lose.

 

I've mentioned this before over the years, but I think it's worth stating again. I think DTG were wrong to dive in with both feet on full-sized mainline engines for their first attempt at steam.

They would've been better off doing an extension of the IoW to include the steam railway, added a 57XX Pannier to WSR, or even going narrow gauge and developing the Corris Railway for TSW. This would've saved the cost of developing a historical-era mainline route and focus on introducing players new to steam to locomotives on a smaller, simpler scale. Then test the market and watch the feedback... was it good, bad, lukewarm? If good with constructive criticism, then work your way up to a larger preserved locomotive, maybe something mainline certified for layering onto other routes.

The Spirit of Steam was just too much, too soon. Peak Forest would have been the better first time steam release, but I would've added one steam locomotive, and a couple period diesels to give players new to steam the option to try steam at their own pace or ignore it completely if uninterested (and still feel like they got their monies worth).

 

I also like the Peak Forest i bought it not long after it was released..i had played spirit of steam after it was part of the preimium pre order pak for tsw 4 and getting the Flying Scottsman ..ive found it just takes more skill and patience to operate steam more efficiently in TSW ..sometimes i think also why there is a lot of dislike or fustration with US freight cause it takes more skill and patience to get long heavy freights moving and the braking going down grades ..

 

Yeah I think having tricky timetable’s and tricky signals are really difficult.

But with Peak Forest having no timetables on the freight services it’s perfect for learning to run a loco.

I feel like peoples anger and frustration are all really just skill issues but I’d love to see Dovetail Let a real steam driver try peak Forest like they did with LNER and get a proper opinion and show how well a steam driver does on the route and I think with the upcoming expansion it would be great publicity filmed in an engine shed with a loco behind it marketing magic
let’s see what the guys who know best say

 

Too realistic? In the same post you say to keep the pressure from growing too high you put both the brakes on and the throttle. There is nothing realistic about being forced to do that.

I agree they are fun and work best on a route where you are climbing with heavy trains but without the manual firmeman and control of the water we are just balancing the controls so the pressure either raises or stays level and that is it.

I agree about some of the ambassadors not having a clue.

 

Precisely that my friend they all see 50mph and blast everything trying to reach that I’m quite happy just keeping the 8F between 160-260 ps and I quite often by just keeping my pressure up I’ll end up hitting 40mph cos my engine has the power.

On another Note COAL TRAINS HAVE NO BRAKING you use the loco only or if u click a couple of brakes at the back that can simulate the guards van.

First time I drove them didn’t check if they were vac fitted and got pushed into a SPAD so slow and steady definitely prevails with the coal trains

 

I can say I Contradicted myself there but I meant the driving experience of them not the pressure systems and I’ve known drivers do this in mid gear but on here it doesn’t work venting the steam so brake on and in gear it has to be

 

Can only compare with TSC, mainly good stuff like Bossman or Victory Works, or MSTS/OR before it. The steam simulation in TSW is at best inferior, at worst total rubbish. DTG need to get their act together and follow through on the promises that were made when SoS and to a lesser extent PFR were released. Sadly it seems TSW is moving to a state where it indulges the whims of those running the development (endless electric commuter routes) rather than providing a broader, diverse experience and tasking those responsible for programming the game with sorting out steam simulation.

 

You say at “best inferior and at worst total rubbish”
Can I ask what makes you say that?
What makes it so bad in your opinion?
Just genuinely interested to see why people hate them so much no bad vibes just curiosity

I personally I haven’t got spirit of steam or WCL rail tour after I’ve heard so many bad things but I have peak Forest and Flying Scotsman and enjoy them both.

 

In one of the marketing videos for Spirit of Steam, they did just that. They had an actual driver say it was good.

 

I’m gonna go look for that but maybes it they did a big comeback with the NYMR and Piglet trying it Boom nobody would say it’s LOVE cos if the A list train mechanic and driver says it’s good then it’s got to be he’ll probably laugh at how unrealistic the pressure systems are cos I know it generates steam faster than in real hence the always blowing off (which people complain about) but before that it wasn’t providing enough steam (heavily complained about)

so I think people need to stop being so rude and expecting perfection no wonder the developers don’t do anything nice for the players cos I’ve seen the live streams and people are just nasty for no good reason and talk about things they know nothing about.

For Example Scotrail Class 170
Everyone says the sounds are wrong

I live in Scotland home of the the said 170 fleet
I can tell you the Sounds are good genuine recordings no synthesiser

People in Australia were saying they were rubbish and everyone jumped on the band wagon we unfortunately seem to be a generation of sheep nobody forms there own opinions anymore.

And anyone who dares to say otherwise just gets spammed.

 

well unfortunately I switched it off
I would think anything to do with the associates of that video was lies so maybes they should get a new improved partnership and I think ALL aboard NYMR would be great steam trains into Whitby Pacers and 158 AI Traffic, STEAM and Diesel gala wow that would be good

 

I love the 4F and it sounds very good below 25mph but my issue with that and apparently FS suffers from the same issue. They have basically infinite boiler pressure and the safeties are blaring all the time. It doesn't feel like there is any skill to driving those two locomotives.
I don't mind the Jubilee and 8F as much

I've had a few footplate runs up the bluebell with 80151 and 73082 (Camelot) and the firemen weren't ever shovelling like hell the whole way it was about preparing the fire for the trip. And that was fairly large trains up a steep gradient.

I wouldn't mind the current set up so much if they'd just have set the limit of boiler pressure below the safeties on the FS and 4F just because a really key point of dealing with boiler pressure is to do with the injectors and the fireman side in my experience. If a fireman shovelled like that they'd probably be shot!

I just don't feel like steam works well enough with such a basic fireman set up which is part of the issue. And I think the only reason they released the flying money pit was for the income not for any kind of serious go at steam with the simplified physics Imo.

We've also had developers like JT publicly come out on the forum and say "Steam is borked in TSW". The state of it was a shame as I would've loved to see Victory works content in TSW

I will say despite this I love the PFR route and am very disappointed there are no plans as of yet to fix it up. And I don't mean the physics I mean AI sounds, Custom liveries, full conoflats etc. It's a shame because they both had potential to be such amazing routes.

 

Inaccurate physics, compared to TSC and MSTS or even earlier games like Simudrive or Steam Express. Full regulator on 75% cutoff should put the fire out the chimney above about 5 MPH.
Virtually impossible to run out of steam, regardless of what the boiler pressure shows.
Sound breaks down into a wall of white noise above about 30 MPH.
No management of fire mass or boiler water level.
Does not consume any coal or water.
No change of exhaust colour after putting coal on the fire.

Probably more but IMHO more than enough to relegate TSW steam at best to an arcade level experience.

 

I also wish to add as a side note many people are angry and frustrated about the state of steam because it has been totally abandoned and we've all been shafted by DTG as a result.

We were all eager to purchase the content and support DTG with our wallets which we did. We were sold the product with many features promised to which a fair few are still missing and the routes are still a bit broken. Then we get told there are no plans for any more steam content and have all been left high and dry.

Route features that are still broken:
No blood and custard Mk1s in timetable
No AI steam sounds
No loaded conoflats in timetable
No Creators club liveries in timetable
No Manual firing (Key selling point)

The reason people are upset with steam was because we purchased content with our money upon promises that haven't come to fruition. The routes are still in a poor state. PFR is beautifully made but with those bugs and an awful timetable we're forced to wait for a third party paid dlc to hopefully improve the route.

While there is a lot of hate on DTG not all of it is completely unfounded especially in the case of steam where they refuse to even acknowledge the mess they've made or put together a serious explanation or apology.

If you have time for a full read through most of not all of the issues are in this thread here
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/dtg-have-abandoned-steam-in-tsw.77537/

 

Despite everything that may be wrong, I enjoyed it a lot and I would like to see more steam content definitely. I see many layers enjoying themselves with games like Railroads Online and Railroader. The physics and steam simulation are way off what we get in TSW. Why are these people happy and are we so nasty about it? I really do not understand.

 

Route features that are still broken:

No blood and custard Mk1s in timetable

LAZY not fixing it cos it’s simply done

No AI steam sounds

i Did think I didn’t notice passing trains so I think that’s fair to expect thanks for pointing it out

No loaded conoflats in timetable

I think a tractor model would be nice
Even some crates

No Creators club liveries in timetable

I think it was TSW3 so there wasn’t a creators club I can’t get liveries on TEES valley because of the same reason

No Manual firing (Key selling point)

I wouldn’t wanna fire and drive on my own but if it was promised well it looks bad when you don’t deliver it

 

It is quite sad to see the social media content which was released around the time of SOS, so much build up and excitement, only for it to be snuffed out.

Not many things make me angry but I do have to say that I think DTG did make a mistake in building up SOS and the introduction of steam in TSW and then leaving it not properly working and the route having a very poor timetable which would have been a shadow of the real life one. I would not have bothered purchasing SOS if I had known what was to become of it and steam in general. If they at least fixed the AI steam sounds and the physics and added some more to SOS at least we would have one worthwhile steam route, even if no more were produced.

I hope that maybe one day DTG will do a U-turn or some of TSC's third party developers would get on board.

I do think DTG will have egg on their face if the likes of Simrail manage to make a success of steam.

For now steam is the only reason I have TSC installed as there is so much great content.

 

Steam is what I want to play the most and I am half tempted to buy a pc so I can get TSC and have access to all the choice. I am going to give DTG this year to bring steam back. If they don’t then I’ll either go to TSC or another sim altogether.

 

This thread is the only one about steam that's positive in any way.

 

I dunno if they’ve been working behind the scenes or if people just don’t understand steam physics but I was impressed I only got PFR to make the steam gala timetable work and not a straight run for Scotsman on WSR

And tbf have been so overwhelmed with what I got

I expected a baron land with no traffic
And broken steam physics cos every video on YT says so

but I see a lovely railway chiselled into a mountain moss on the rocks lovely Victorian stations and some in disrepair and some unique stations forever immortalised in TSW so we can walk about and actuality enjoy the scenery

Yards full of wagons

busy shunters and banking engines that couple up to you if you continue from the light engine to quarry timetable

I think people were too busy hating what they didn’t have instead of appreciating what they do have

and the ambassadors don’t do any justice to the steam as all I’ve seen is hate except a certain one who never says a bad word no matter what the dlc IYKYK

I think people with actual steam experience who play the game need to be found to be an ambassador as these clowns struggling for pressure with the regulator wide open that’s not how you’d handle an engine you try and keep it as little reg as possible get going then compress it 5% and open up a little bit and repeat I rarely open up on that hill anymore than 40% they blame the steam physics I blame the “ambassadors” supposed train sim pros for giving it such a bad rep

 

I got an 8F to 170mph at the Training Centre. In real life it would have topped out at roughly 100 less. At 170mph, the loco would have disintegrated itself.

People who actually know how a steam locomotive drives universally agree that TSW's steam simulation is cosmically inaccurate.

 

Don't get me wrong I brought PFR day one and I love the route it's beautifully made for the most part. I love the scenery, the stations are beautiful as you say there is plenty of stock in the yards. I like the 4F a lot as well.

My only real gripe aside from the physics/firing was just there wasn't much in the timetable. You don't tend to see many AI services out and about. I also would've loved to have some small Goods trains with the 4F as well as it's a bit quarantined to shunting and banking.

I enjoyed the scenarios too especially the one where you run a drop off goods train down the route shunting wagons in and out of all of the small yards along the route. My favourite scenario by a mile!

I will be buying the 104 pack as well when that's eventually released.

Also just a side note with the creators club liveries I meant that liveries made in the livery designer for the wagons etc dont show up on timetable which was another selling point.

 

Yes apart from a couple of gaps visible in the distant hills, PFR probably the best looking and most scenic in house UK route to date. Just let down by the strange choice of start point in the south, should have gone to Derby, then the previously mentioned steam traction deficiencies and poor timetable. It then got rapidly chucked into DTG’s “former” DLC category as happened with SoS, no follow on development or augmemtive DLC. The Class 104 pack still, in my mind, teeters on the edge of turning to vapourware and if it does, there goes any chance of seeing the route get a facelift.

Those of us who have been around this sim for a while now have a full understanding of the DTG mindset. Release a new project with lots of wow, presentations with silly headphones and the senior staff oohing and ahhing over the title as if it’s the only DLC they’re going to play from now to the end of time. Instead, the reality is, comes out with more than a few of issues, some of which may get patched, then shuffled off in favour of the next big idea.

 

Now they’re releasing TTTE, l would love to see a Pannier and a Prairie Tank engine in the game.

 

Steam particles from whistles still clip through the cabs, DTG knew about that years ago, have they fixed it... NO

The physics are very poor, the Jubilee is out of steam 100metres after pulling out of a station.

Spirit of Steam is dull with scenery that looks better when you close your eyes.

 

I agree the scenery in SoS is dull. Not sure if thats just because the route was pretty baron at that time or just that they didn't add as much line side foliage etc as they could have.

I've never driven a steam loco so don't fully understand exactly how the steam physics should behave, but I do get a lot of enjoyment out of the locos we currently have and would 100% buy more if they were to make them at the current standard, just because it's fun and I love the way they look and sound, although I think there could be improvements on the sound at higher speeds and gradients.

 

I think the engines were more realistic upon release. Getting up steep grades was a real challenge, especially in a fully loaded jub.
Now I don't even need to monitor boiler pressure. Get set the reverser and regulator to a certain position and the steam doesn't run out!
I think dtg had it right but due to complaints, messed about with it and this is where we are now.

And it's hard to compare plodding up and down a heritage line at 25mph to working a mainline at 75mph when I comes to maintaining steam pressure.
Watch the fireman on a heritage railway chucking the odd shovel of coal into the fire here and there. Compared to a fireman continously shoveling coal into the fire on a mainline.

 

I get the feeling Thomas and friends might just be a way of steam development without the constant overbearing abuse from serious steam players and if they work re skin and they’ll be resold

 

Can you link to this video. Sounds fun.

(Yes, I am a terrible person)

 

In fact, the reverse is true. Driven in the right way the Jubilee has the capability to build and maintain boiler pressure which is far in excess of the real thing. If you open up the dampers to 100%, open the regulator just far enough to maintain the steam chest, then reduce cut-off sufficiently to hold the needle just short of full pressure, it will put up incredible performances which real Jubilees could not get close to.

If you’re finding it loses pressure quickly, it’s due to something you’re doing in the way you control it. The most common error is leaving the cut-off much too far open for too long. You need a (fairly) high cut-off to start, but you then need to wind the cut-off back very quickly to around 20% - and lower if needed, to stop the pressure dropping.

 

Thanks, I usually start at 60/50 and wind back to 60/35. I will try to wind the reverser back further.

 

I'm sure i heard in Matts charity stream last year he hinted at a 3rd party doing steam so we will see

 

Although I'm aware they're not particularly realistic I still enjoy driving them. And many of the basics of steam are there.
I'm sure many would agree with me

 

I'm always open to more steam locos, even if the physics aren't 100% realistic, so long as its believable.

 

I went back and did the peak shunting scenario today (actually got the gold by a country mile this time so not sure what changed with the scoring?). And I still love the 4F model and the sounds, the scenario is quite a good one as well. I enjoy playing steam just a little frustrating the boiler pressure was just infinite as said. It's such a shame because that route has so much potential!

I hope the Simtrack pack helps I really do. I just worry it's been nearly a year since it went off the 0-3 Months schedule and all we've had is two untextured renders.

 

Biggest issue with steam for me is that the strength of the chuffing is linked to the pressure in the steam chest not the cylinders so you get a stronger exhaust as you reduce the cut off... exactly the reverse of how it should be. Also the steam chest seems to have a much smaller volume than it should so when you close the regulator, power is shut off almost immediately. Just this afternoon I was watching a cabride of a black 5 on the NYMR and you could clearly hear 5-6 good full chuffs before they faded when the regulator was shut. The max boiler pressure constantly blowing the safties is frustrating due to how easy it would be to fix, set the target to 80% or so of max. Not perfect but would be much better than it is.

 

I see a Problem here if you opened up 60/50 youd open your fire box and there would be nothing left

Try
75/13
75/20
65/20
65/30

Youll maintan pressure while slowly picking up speed I never have my regulator open.anymore than 55% at anytime

 

They made them less pressurised and more realistic in initial release (SoS) and everyone was complaining they were running out of steam and no scenery

So they make Peak Forest Lovely scenery Lost of pressure to get up the hills and what happened

Nobody cared how beautiful or busy the yards were on the route they just hated how it was "infinite pressure" and the timetable missed out passengers passed peak forest

I dont even.think.people.realise the AI banking.engines actually approach and couple themselves to your train

 

How to drive a steam loco watch how little regulator real drivers use

Doesn't matter if it's preservation or mainline too many players open the regulator too much and bleed pressure learn how to control them they aren't like diesels

 

The problem with the Peak Forest timetable is it's missing a lot of freight and passenger services that travelled over the route in real life!

 

Yeah I think they planned a few expansion packs for it but everyone took to making them try change the physics then complained when they did

Like why would you try and make steam add ons when everyone says they're broken

now they're over pressured to real life comparison on peak forest i guarantee at some places you would be down to walking pace maybe even having to stop to rebuild pressure or just stalling on the banks it was really common

people think they just pull the handle and away it should go so DTG did a 50/50 so it's still requires skill but is over pressured and bounces back for the noobs

 

Wouldn't be surprised if that's their reason for abandoning steam.

 

They talked about DLC, I doubt that users desire for better physics (if indeed they needed improving) would have stopped them producing any DLC.

That decision I suspect was from a higher echelon.

That again rankles as there was quite a buzz for what possible DLC might occur then steam was abandoned. At least for PFR the third party expansion might make it a worthwhile route whilst SOS is left to be forgotten.

 

TBF they know the audience and eventually the over pressured unrealism will annoy experienced players if they release a more flat map I think they worked it quite well with the steep gradients but people just love to complain

 

IIRC there were no changes to the physics post-PFR.