With the downfall of the WCML licensing being unavailable to DTG this year. I'm having a feeling if it may be more difficult to gather licensing with the Government trying to put the trains back into the public sector. Would this prevent us from getting licensing due to the political climate? It's hugely annoying that it's been a bit more difficult for DTG to gather licensing and modding has been the resort of this. I would prefer to see more licensing in games to improve and enhance our user experience. I'm dying to see another GWR route or SWT.
I believe South West Trains and East Midlands Trains (The Stagecoach ones) go throught the DfT. When Stagecoach held these franchises it was a bit of a mare iirc, with SWT backing and forthing between the DfT and Stagecoach.
I would perfer if a train/ route is licensed but if a licence is not obtainable then a debrand with liveries as close to the real thing if not the real thing without logos would be ok imo. This would at least get us some routes we otherwise would not of gotten. Might also help get some countries that we have yet to get. May even make routes & locos a bit cheaper as there would be no licensing fees.
Licensing doesn't matter at all to me, but having the logos does and unfortunately the two go hand in hand to avoid copyright infringement. I like how Liam has approached giving us similar liveries in the GWE remaster - let's be honest, if we were getting 4 new licensed locos (C2C Electrostar, GWR Electrostar, Heathrow Express Electrostar, TFL stock), while we would get the full proper thing, it would be quite expensive whereas this is for free. I think also with the layer selector, people can disable them if they don't think it is suitable. It seems an appropriate and inventive way to get more in the game. However for paid routes and locos, I would only expect to see no licensing as an absolute last resort, and would hope that DTG were working to secure it. In short, if the route or loco is much requested and it is highly unlikely to be able to secure licensing, bring it without - however this should be at a discounted price as it becomes less real and more fictional. Routes and locos with licensing should be prioritised IMO. I would hope that once all is sitting with the government things should be better licensing wise, and I think the LNWR fiasco must just be because the transition is still in progress. It's a shame, even though I don't know the route, it does feel a bit off with unbranded trains and empty looking signs. I hope that even if DTG have given up on the licensing for now, and I'm sure they are still trying, that they retry once it is operated by the DFT. When travel planning away from my normal route, I often like to try and travel on lines and operators in the game. Fictional routes, and generic locos would take away the realism too much for me.
Licensing would not be important to me if this game was not called "Train Sim World". When you buy a "simulator" and pay the premium prices that simulator games always sell for, you expect a full simulation. You don't expect the company charging £30 for DLC to turn around to the player base and say: "Well, licensing is too expensive so we chose to spend the money on something more important... Please welcome our 21st new community manager this year, this is where your DLC money is being wisely invested". I've lost count of how many community managers DTG have gotten through over the last 6 years, but the actual game only gets more buggy and broken with each yearly release, with existing features being removed (steam trains, GWR license) and promised features (LNWR branding) never appearing. Instead of blowing the budget on hiring new office staff, spend the money on game development, better programmers and new licensing & content.
As a last resort, to get a really iconic route or train in the game, an unbranded version better than none. But in their blinkered pursuit of modern prototypes particularly where the UK is concerned, DTG conveniently forget the easy workaround. Step back to BR days and release the route and train packs from that era. No licensing bother required. Yes I know I’m biased towards more classic stuff, but BR doesn’t just mean the 60’s and 70’s. Many train operators didn’t enter franchise ownership until the mid to late 90’s. The Class 158’s were introduced under BR tenure as were many what would be regarded as second or third generation EMU’s. And if all else fails, adopt the approach taken in TSC on a couple of routes. One of the WCML sections had a Pendolino but because there was no Virgin license, it came in either BR Inter City livery or pseudo LMS maroon with gold stripes. Looked quite smart too. So licensing should never be an obstacle to representing a route in the game, just need to be a bit clever with the era and train choice. Only caveat of course is where the infrastructure operators might not want their systems represented but still solutions. Wasn’t Seebergbahn in TSC based on the route from Interlaken to Spiez then part of the BLS, but built as a German style route with DB trains. There you are Dovetail, can even get around the SBB licensing. Just build the route as a German mountain one instead!
I'm not against having unbranded stock in TSW if a licence can't be obtained as it could represent a period of transition between operators rather than fictional operators (for the UK anyway). It's happened in TSC a few times with TOCs losing a franchise and a route has then had to be released with unbranded stock, South Wales Coastal, Welsh Marches being a few. Take IoW for example in TSW. The updated version features a fictional livery and company but it still looks great for what it is and represents the modern version of the line. WCML South also doesn't look too bad without the TOC branding. You can still tell it is that brand. In real life where I am, one of the TOCs ran unbranded trains after Arriva lost the franchise (Arriva Trains Northern) and I also remember after GNER lost their franchise for the ECML, the trains rain still in GNER colours but with National Express decals instead. IIRC, there was a virgin branded Pendolino sold by DTG (nicknamed the Pretendolino) for when a version of the WCML route released. It went the way of North Wales Coastal though and was taken down when Virgin lost the franchise (NWC was affected by not 1 but 2 franchise losses as Arriva Trains Wales ended up being unbranded). I'm with you btw. I much prefer old BR liveries (blue, InterCity etc) but wouldn't mind TOCs like GNER or Northern Spirit making an appearance.
No it was a full on Virgin-branded Pendolino for WCML Trent Valley. They also did the red and black livery for the HST and an overhauled 47/8. All taken down when they lost the franchise. The Pendo rereleased in Avanti livery for WCML South. The 47/8 rereleased in various BR liveries in Huddersfield line.
As long as we don’t end up with fictional liveries, a lack of logos (such as on WCMLS) does not bother me, it’s not uncommon when trains are hired/loaned, for them to be liveried but unbranded.
As a weird freak with a passion for signage and branding it is my opinion that branding and realistic representation of a brand and its assets is a very important factor of delivering a believable experience for a simulator, where you actually do pay to see what you (may) know from real life simulated in a virtual environment. I'm just a sucker for realism and being able to recognize and explore real life locations and equipment digitally. It gives me weird positive vibes to see and interact with what I know from the real world recreated. So yeah, I do think licensing is a very important deal. Like, if they would create Zwolle - Groningen without NS branding I wouldn't be interested in it in the slightest. Even still I'm worried about how all the track side equipment, signals and signs will be handled and represented as I'm very familiar with them up close in real life. Edit as I want to emphasize why the representation of the NS brand is so significant for the first Dutch route. Trains in the Netherlands are iconic, largely due to the strong brand recognition of NS, which has been the dominant operator for the vast majority of the country's railway history. This deep association between NS and the Dutch railways makes its representation essential to capturing the cultural and historical identity of train travel in the Netherlands.
Where possible it's great... And I'd advocate for licencing. However, I thought I'd be more disappointed with the LNWR not being on the 350s. Quite honestly? It does not bother me in the slightest now. So I've done a bit of a U turn in my original opinion. If licensing isn't possible with an operator, first I'd consider backdating the branding (for example SWR back to SWT), then consider and unbranded but VERY similar blank livery like that on the Class 350. I've got a good feeling that any DfT owned routes will be accessible in the near future because of nationalisation of passenger services. *Cough* *Cough* SWR...
Train and operator related licenses definetly! If the warehouse near the track is named "Armazol" its something i really can overlook. The entire unbranded thing on wcml is a huge step back.
Indeed, in May of this year, SWR will become the first franchise to be renationalised. Fingers crossed.
Is it just going to rebranded to BR again or do the names/branding of the different "lines" stay as they are?
This was said back in 2023, so at the moment we don’t know what’s going on. We know the new HQ will be built in Derby, but with SWR nationalisation due in May, nobody is really sure with the government being, predictably vague. Recent events, plus HS2, mean the government at the moment is more concerned with other matters. Personally hoping for the return of Rail Blue or even regional liveries, NSE, Intercity, Centro.
LNER is operator of last resort and is ran by the DfT. Dovetail had no issues getting the licence there.
That’s basically the UK governments plan pretty much I think, they already run TPE, Northern and Southeastern the same way as LNER under the operator of last resort. This will gradually apply to all other TOC’s although when they start rebranding is unknown at this moment. Scotrail, the Caledonian Sleeper and TfW Rail are already under their regional governments control.
SouthEastern is already nationalised technically and was brought under government control back in 2021 I believe.
Nothing much will change, at least for a few years after GBR comes into being. I'd imagine they'd keep the brands of existing companies with slight name changes, all the while stressing they are part of GBR. For example, Northern would stay Northern, name possibly changing to Northern by GBR or something.
I personally don't give a care - it is much more important to get a variety of rolling stock in the game (Livery can be made by mods)
I voted yes, even if I could gloss over some cases. I wouldn't be this desperate, if I were you. DfTO already has some interesting operators under its control, like TPE and Northern! Now there's no more excuse to introduce them properly into the game, dear DTG! SWR, Greater Anglia and c2c will follow this year, so... I'm hoping for a nice TPE route (perhaps as a core content in the future TSW) soon!
