Do People With Real Steam Engine Experience Like Steam In Tsw

Well yeah there's that, but I don't think steam technology changes that much in principle. Just like a diesel electric is a diesel electric.
The style and details yes, but they operate on the same principles.

 

My issue wasn't driving them as much as I wish we could have manual firing etc. the stations are nice but it feels so empty because of the size. There are no local stoppers, shunting engines etc. There is a fair bit of stock in the yards tbf but not enough to fill out the massive yards imo.

Don't get me wrong I've done almost all of the journey now 1 service left and I've managed to finish them all (despite a few sketchy freight services) to a gold medal. So it's not unplayable. It's just not quite to the level of PFR IMHO steam state aside

 

PFR also has a lot of missing services...

 

Usually Add ons and DLC fill these gaps but PFR wasn't warmly welcomed seen everyone going mad on here cos they are unrealistic but that's far from the truth they are really good

 

I'm not sure why you seem insistent on blaming the fanbase for DTG's abandonment of steam.

 

Blame or partial responsibility?
Putting all the blame on DTG is irresponsible.
Actions lead to consequences, intended and unintended.
The routes might be somewhat recoverable with the Class 104 add on and updated timetable.
Of course that has no release date so.....

 

SOS was hyped up and turned out to be a vanity project for the CEO.

PFR has silent steam locos and weird start and end points.

Then suddenly they stopped developing steam and blamed the community for it.

 

DTG are the only people responsible for abandoning steam.

 

We're just gonna have to agree (for the 17th time) to disagree. They are driven by sales and limited by technology. Sales didn't justify revamping the whole game system. It could change in the future, but again... that's not this thread. That's the other dozens of threads to argue this. Anyone with real life experience to add?

 

BR blue doesn’t sell.
“Hold my beer” says JT.

Proper steam, as opposed to the blue toy variety, will be back one day.

 

The question is? Do we know what sells well within DTG? Is it short commuter routes, is it high speed routes or is it a mix of both (Frankfurt - Fulda, WCML South, SEHS, London Commuter etc)?

 

Anything thats modern sells as far as they're concerned.

 

Never said it didn't but compared to SOS. SOS was a graveyard and because of the scale you notice it a hell of a lot more imo.

 

People can innately pick out what "looks off" even if they don't know why exactly. Not seeing many other trains could be "normal" on a less traveled route and who knows the timetable from 60+ years ago? However, a huge storage area looks odd. And SOS has lots of huge storage areas without enough in them.

Couldn't tell ya if the amount of "traffic" is right or not. It seems busy enough to be plausible. Those empty areas though....

 

That's JT taking the risk, not DTG.
Same could happen with more steam routes.
Hopefully.

 

A great opportunity for a third party dev to step up and make the best collection of steam sim models to date.

 

Unfortunately I have passenger and working timetables, in my collection, covering the PFR route so I can tell. Most probably wouldn't though unless they had some knowledge of railway operations of the time. Public timetables for the period are easy to come by though.

If I recall one of the stations (it might be Rowsley) doesn't even have any trains stopping in one direction.

 

I'm convinced it can be done by work arounds that don't require tearing the core system up. But, I'm not a developer so I have no clue how much work that would entail or who would want to do it. That might make for a good thread to discuss in more detail, but the problem is that most people (myself included) are just guessing, and much of the information needed is DTG proprietary information so it'd be guesswork and speculation.
Not that this forum is foreign to that by any means. =-)

 

The traffic levels on SOS/PFR are not realistic not by any stretch. People know what the timetables are from 60 years ago because people have bought the old timetables and they're still accessible in some places. If you look at the steam thread of people running the Jubilee with damper settings over different routes they're comparing all of their runs with real timings and seeing how close they can get to real running times. You can see this by how expensive the track plans are and how much was cut down by the modernisation plan. All of those massive yards in SOS don't really exist now or if they do it'll be nowhere near as extensive.

In the steam days there would be shunters going about moving wagons all the time. You'd have the local stopping services, expresses, mail trains, parcels traffic etc. The railways were a much more bustling hive of activity back then because all of the freight, parcels, coal, etc all went through the railways. You'd have the pickup and drop off goods services through all the small stations with those goods yards in. And there would be so much variety in terms of locomotive types and consists.

 

Which is fine, but again MOST people don't do that level of research or really care. They just want it to "seem right." Same with scenery for example. You don't need to model every building separately for historical authenticity. Just have the right "feel" of era buildings that are "close" to historical. A modern car or building sticks out, but if it's "close enough" most players won't notice or care.

Which is fine for the majority.

The problem is when it's obviously out of place.

Even non-experts can see those, even if they don't know what they're looking at.

It just "feels" off.

Like that handful of 2D trees on Horseshoe Curve which if ALL the trees were 2D wouldn't be as noticeable... but next to a 3D tree stands out harshly.

Empty sidings are similar. They are basically like empty parking lots. It's weird. All that space and nothing in it. It feels eerily quiet and empty. Even if they were full of non-moving stock, that'd still be "filled." You could plausibly think they are just sitting there waiting normally to be picked up.

But so much of them being mostly empty is weird.
It's like going into a store that's going out of business and 90% of the shelves are empty.
It's weird and out of place.

 

Well the PFR route does feel "off" in terms of traffic levels. Many have said that. I think that and the problems with steam dogged this rout from the outset, a shame as they have done a great job modelling the scenery and assets.

 

I have digital scans of the relevant working timetables and can share them with you.

 

SOS is supposedly a main line. Crewe to Liverpool is part of the WCML.

I don't know much about timetables for the period, but for what was and still is one of the busiest main lines in the country, the traffic on SOS is nowhere near representative.

 

There are lots of service missing. Most of if not all of the Crewe to Liverpool stoppers aren't there.

 

I think all three of you you're missing my point entirely, but thank you for the offer. I never said traffic was correct...just that it wasn't as noticeable as empty stockyards are.

 

A main line with most of its services missing is certainly noticeable.

 

So I decided to give Spirit of Steam another go since like TSW2. Quite enjoyed it although it is absolutely crying out for more traffic and another loco, probably a Black 5. I seem to remember it being busier but there's only 135 (playable) services in the timetable; to say that's quiet is an understatement, especially considering it's a major trunk railway line.

By the way, it did get me looking at photos of the time on Wikipedia, and I note the caption in one mentioned express trains passing Kirkham & Wesham station on average once every 2 minutes on a summer saturday. Granted not all of them would be going through Crewe, but when you consider it's a major junction, it is very eerie to see it so quiet.

 

I'd like to see these time tables see how much is missing how much DLC opportunity there really is to build the route

 

I'd like to see this

 

I have a feeling a lot of the services were kept back for a Black Five DLC that never happened. A quick look on BR Database (not definitive I know but by many accounts is accurate), they were the most common loco at Crewe and Edge Hill, followed by the 3F, Jubilee, 8F and Princess Royals.

 

I don't wanna seem like that but I was on The lives for PFR and in these forums

And I got led like a sheep into thinking PFR was really bad and unplayable.

I literally got it so I could run my Steam Gala on WSR instead of a straight through run for Scotsman.

And it's hands down one of the best Add ons that I own.

The only thing I blame the community for is Dragging a really Good DLC through the mud just cos they can't be a fireman and a driver.

I just wonder given the option would people wanna
Drive,
Fire and check tickets?

Cos I mean if we wanna do multiple persons jobs why not them all.

 

I'm not being funny but I would have scrapped steam development

Let's think realistically I don't know how long you've been on these forums and if you seen the PFR thread?

When PFR released they said the option for Manual firing would be there.

Unfortunately all it means is you have an invisible fireman the train still fires itself.

Go through the forums if they haven't deleted all the toxic hateful messages

All because of no firing.

Then people realised the quiet locos and the quiet time tables

Then the Forums went even worse saying it was absolute garbage got even more toxic

Then we started seeing PINNED at the top and it still is to this day

CODE OF CONDUCT

All this spiralled due to PFR I watched it with my own eyes

Read everyone saying the steam engines ran out of pressure then they are blowing off constantly

People can't get the trains up the hills

And as I said I avoided it like the plague because it must have been bad the way people were going on was as if they'd been robbed

And it really is a good route

But how do you fix the problem of

Half the people say they can't make it up the hills cos they run out of pressure

Half the people are annoyed that there is too much pressure

I personally think PFR is too good to abandon I think they have made that statement to get everyone off there backs

And in the future a diesel is coming to the route hopefully with diesel freight layers
So there the 50% complaining of no pressure fixed

 

I was lucky enough to pick up the vibe early that not all criticism of the various DLCs was coming from an objective person and made the decision to pick up Peak Forest. And like you, it's one of my favorites.

 

Why does the Jubilee not have a headcode (I was driving the 8F)?

Mind, the 8F didn't have one when I started but the Jubilee I drove yesterday spawned with the correct Class A headcode.

 

PFR is a great route. In my opinion (yes I said opinion, relax) it's the prettiest route in the game. SOS is also nice, but can't hold a candle in scenery. I run a lot of early diesel stuff in free mode and it works perfectly. It's sad DTG never took that tack to at least utilize the route they already built. But hopefully the 104 will change things... eventually.... when it gets on the roadmap.

 

PFR is one of the best modelled routes in the sim. It will be transformed when the class 104 pack is released.

Sadly the current timetable is lacking.

 

Loads of discussion and interest in steam on the forum recently. Absolute tumbleweed from DTG on the matter. Just want to know if steam really has been abandoned for good. I really enjoy the current locos but like my model railway collection, I want more.

 

I put a question in the Roadmap Q&A whether the love in with TTTE will signify a return to more serious steam content but expect it was ignored; certainly nothing in the typed feedback Alex posted.

 

Until you hear otherwise, there will be no more steam for TSW.

As the old saying goes, "If it isn't on the roadmap..."

 

Wait to see how Thomas is received.
Nothing will happen before they see how that sells.

 

Yes and no

 

I wouldn’t say it’s about doing multiple peoples’ jobs. For a realistic driving experience, you also need a realistically managed fire, water level, etc. An AI fireman can only do so much.

 

CLICK on the lamp irons where they would be.

Headcode and headlights are only ever on from start of the run if you're in scenarios and they're simulating a quick crew change

It's always the drivers responsibility to make sure head and tail lights are On the train correctly