Is it me or have Rivet shot under the radar for a bit. I mean they really stepped up their game when it comes to the fife circle line and the recent branch line update but the lack of new timetable as of yet makes the 158 with new livery redundant. As for the awful 385, they said they would get proper sounds for that as soon as they could get a recording sesh set up. Never happened. No update ever given. And when it comes to west cornwall local, well, what a waste. Class 150 has not been fixed in years and I would imagine is the reason it's not been used on JT BR routes and likely the reason it's now being remade for the Welsh line yet to be released. Maybe a remaster somewhere down the line???.....I'm not so sure. There's Brighton, East coastway and countless German routes that will be done first. I don't know, they excel in modelling as their trains always look amazing but when it comes to the other stuff they don't seem to be able to deliver, especially when it comes to going back and updating/ fixing things. Maybe we have been spoilt by JT setting he bar so high now. Let me know thoughts below. Cheers
The 150 rivets lame duck is dead in the water what’s why dtg in there infinite wisdom have rebuilt as the 150 for the hopefully coming before tsw6 Cardiff network along with the class 153 dog box
I've said this in other threads... But I have a theory DTG have contracted Rivet to build their UK routes hence why they've been so quiet, and also why I feel DTG were so keen to defend Rivet in the WCMLS saga. So I can guarantee if that theory proves to be correct you'll see the gradual decline of DTGs own UK content... And it'll be a lap it up and make do attitude unless the community hold them to account. Again I'm only speculating (but I've made my own mind up on this however), but if DTG has allowed Rivet to construct their routes, after all the evidence of their shoddy work and the feedback about the poor quality of WCMLS, that is how much you as a player are valued. This may seem long winded, but as I've said in previous other threads I feel DTG is trying to find more revenue sources, and rather then improve the game and cater to the hard core simulator enthusiast and railway enthusiasts, they seem to be aiming their sights on the casual gamers who don't have the same eye for detail as us anorak lot, also at the detriment at the quality of the game. If DTG produce one more shoddy route like WCMLS I think it will be a nail on the coffin in many ways, and by the time DTG change their tune and want to cater for the hardcore enthusiasts again it might be a little bit to late. Nowt wrong with casual gamers, but don't completely p*** off your main demographic and sideline them just because there's a few more apples at the top of the tree. The retention rate of the hardcore anoraks like myself and others is probably far higher then the casual gamer retention rate that I theorise DTG are looking to cater for more. The only other reasonable theory and explanation is that DTG are working hard on a UE5 version of the game to release later this year, but want to keep a revenue stream going, so have outsourced the UK work to Rivet to make their UK routes while they focus on that? All I can say to DTG is, don't rub the community up the right way, because if you continue with these deflated releases in the current version of the game, by outsourcing your work to Rivet, when you genuinely do have a genuinely good release you'll have tarnished yourself with the same brush as Rivet so tread very carefully... Cardiff Sprinter seems to be the next UK release, and if it's been built entirely by Rivet which I suspect, expect the same situation that has happened with WCMLS to repeat itself, major flaws and issues, empty promises, limited improvements and then leave it. WCMLS is still only half the route it could be with improvements. If that's anything to go by, then we are in for a bit of a rough ride. (Also just to add so there is no confusion, my statement is about DTGs UK content only) Time will tell though. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I strongly suspect I won't be.
Really do love this post as this is bang on mate. It really is, I am a hardcore player. Giving WCML South to Rivet was an absolute disgrace. To then even say it was fit to be released!!! Won't be impressed if Rivet had anything to do with the Cardiff route. We shall see with the Scenery and timetable. Interesting to see what happens in the future but us hardcore players need proper routes. I love UK Highspeed we haven't really got a very well done Highspeed route (Exclude SEHS). ECML is meh, WCML South was just too short, most requested train and only gets a 30ish min run like come on really. I do find it a shame that Dovetail are prioritising casual players and not us hardcore players. Should be equally done. When Dovetail can, they will blow some routes off the roof with the quality like Suffragette Line. Great route, I ain't a fan of it as it ain't my type. We need a Modern Long UK highspeed route for the 390 Such as Euston to Birmingham New Street. Did it on TSC and man it was great and only if DTG could do it on TSW (Yes I know there is so much more to do for TSW quality) Just find it a shame that we are TSW 5 and still getting shoddy routes and short routes. JT are the kings at the moment and I am really impressed by them, you can tell passion and care has gone into every product. Given us an amazing high speed run.
I wouldn't go as far as saying Rivet are developing CCN, if they do end up being the Devs then fair enough. However, this doesn't mean they're likely not working on others. It's already clear by now ever since Paul Jackson (Former CEO of Dovetail) retired DTG has been going on a rampage of marketing, releasing so many DLC's and switching to an annual release. As a result, this has sadly left many routes in an atrocious state naming NTY, WCMLS etc. Though to be clear the Devs are very likely under pressure to meet deadlines if they are releasing half-baked routes which will also come into developing a major flagship route for the release of whichever next annual game releases. They clearly shown they can't do that with the state of NYT and WCMLS, it's very much why DLC's outside of the core routes are just dull or not flagship with mostly routes no longer than 50 miles or doesn't feature over 30 stations. They require such an extensive amount of work for it to be completed. With this it just moves onto the next point why DTG may be so silent on Rivet, not only it's possible they're working on next core route for TSW6 (I personally believe they are), but they could also have no choice in outsourcing work to them. If DTG are really under pressure for producing so many DLC content, then it really just proves this method on development is really unsustainable. I'm not here to dictate which direction DTG should go, but looking from a hardcore player and loyal customer point of view, it's very much pointing to the selling of casual players. DTG likely wouldn't care if the hardcore players are complaining about bugs, missing timetables or incorrect scenery as to them what matters is the sales. If a route doesn't sell, then we won't do that type of the route. I'm sure this will explain why DTG has never revisited Steam Locos or setting routes pre-modern era as if they didn't sell well. Just Trains on the other hand says otherwise. If it's the casual players, a perfect excuse is there for them not to fix bugs, timetables, scenery etc. This attempt at Thomas the Tank engine gave us players nothing but of a middle finger as if you don't care about us, you don't care about if the route is half baked or not, then we'll just focus on the casuals and take the grabs. I can guarantee to you, this will bite back on your mouths as this whole purpose of the game is to have the most realistic experience as possible when driving a train, this includes having scenery and the timetable right to have the experience on what it feels on different types of routes. It's no secret most of the players are train enthusiasts who are happy to use their free time or entertainment to enjoy this game, to only have this game ruined by the Devs based on the direction. So I have last words, change now before it's too late or you'll never be the game as once how many people enjoyed it. Open up on being accountable when things messed up rather acting like a child saying nothing. Hold Rivet Games to annount as well by either forcing them to up their Devs to standards or terminate all contracts within.
If Rivet is making Cardiff City, then why are DTG building a 150 from the geound up. Wouldn't they just use the one that Rivet made? Thats why I don't see that statement as true. Maybe they now have to go through a stricter process before DTG will let them announce anything new because of the debacle the WCMLS was.
SierraOscar95 I think you hit the nail on the head. My own conspiracy theory I’ve expended several times is that possibly Focus driven cost cutting has led DTG to prune the development and production side of things to the bone (while leaving the top heavy marketing and PR department intact). As regards Cardiff City well we know that Danny has been switched across from TSC to TSW and we can only hope that he has been given this one to do. His work on TSC was always first class. Seems more likely despite the massive faux pas with WCMLS, DTG have tied themselves into an agreement with Rivet to be the main builder of UK routes and that they are already working on whatever will be the TSW6/late summer bundle keynote UK routes and that. I know DTG don’t want to air their washing in public, but it would be nice to discover if the TSW side is still adequately staffed as regards programmers and development staff or whether they are now running on a shoestring and turning increasingly to outsourced second and third parties for the content creation. The lack of significant fixes to all the core issues, promises not fulfilled re the save game, the abject failure to tidy up steam traction and ongoing radio silence re the whole thing does give me cause for concern as to where the future lies for TSW.
Really ? Stations aside, even post update, the scenery is beyond dire. The sounds of the 170 are also abysmal. If this was them stepping up their game I'm glad I never bought some of their old ones!
Not a sleight, but how do you be a 'Hardcore player' in a train game on an xbox? You press those buttons like you mean it?
Fife Circle is an OK route, yes. Not perfect, but a lot better than their past routes. WCL is a whole lot worse. The sounds of the 170 are also decent enough. They at least sound something like the real thing, unlike the 150.
170 sounds okay in the saloon or at low speed, but once shifting there’s this intermittent grinding or screeching noise playing over the engine sound. Possibly misplaced flange squeal cue but nothing like any flange squeal I ever heard either.
So if Rivet are doing DTG's route building then what are DTG doing? Maybe Rivet have decided not develop anything more for TSW, that's what a vocal few on here want. Although some on here don't seem to be able to stop talking about them! The new German route looks good so if Rivet have built it, it looks like they have done a good job.
Matt stated on the last Roadmap Stream that the Class 150 IS NOT a new model. It's the original Rivet Games model that's been modified. The sounds are remaining the same as before he also said.
I b....y well hope not! Unless by that he meant the AP sounds will still be used but remixed along with the physics.
Why would there be a grey render if they were reusing the Rivet model? The quality of the sounds wasn't in question. It was the way they implemented them.
My concerns around Rivet and their involvement have been well aired by myself and many others in the community, so not going to go over old ground. What I will say though is that Rivet are inextricably linked to DTG, being that from what I understand it’s many of the staff who worked for DTG when they had their office in Scotland, so essentially they’re part of the family. If DTG are that bare bones with their own Dev team then we’ve reached a sorry state of affairs. Surely this game makes them money?!
As far as I can recall, Matt said they have heavily upgraded and reworked the rivet model. Sounds are the same - there was nothing wrong with them. The issue is in simugraph that the sounds and physics are linked, so the physics of the 150 being poor affected the sounds. He said they have completely reworked the physics so this would make the sounds much better. To me it felt heavily inferred, or perhaps even said but I can't remember, that Cardiff City is an in house route rather than Rivet. I do hope this is the case.
Rivet made me extremely wary of any new release and not just theirs. If it wasn't for JT's Preston-Carlisle route, I'd still be playing TSW4. I've said it so many times but if Rivet actually went and fixed their routes/rolling stock, not only would it convert some of the doubters into believers (although you'll never convince everyone) it would curtail a lot of the negativity and help with future sales of existing and new routes. Again, said it many times, but the prime example is Skyhook. Lambasted for MML, they went back, fixed it and it's now a cracking route. Rarely hear anything bad about them now and MML has become one of my favourites.
All this stuff about Rivet being DTGs route builder is unfounded conjecture. If it's true then they are presumably going to have to grow substantially to cover DTGs output and I'm sure we'll soon know. The new German route doesn't look very "Rivet" like neither does Boston to Worcester.
It’s not a wild assumption to think that Rivet could be working on DTG routes. They are one of DTG’s closest partners and they do have the experience making routes in TSW. It’s pretty much taken as fact that they worked extensively on WCML so it’s not far fetched to guess that they might be working on another route for DTG. DTG do use lots of external partners, companies and individuals, to make elements of their content. They’ve never made everything themselves. We can see that there aren’t any Rivet releases on the roadmap. They won’t all be sat twiddling their thumbs so they must be doing something. It’s entirely possible they are working on their next release but can’t say anything publicly yet due to licensing but it’s probably more likely they are doing stuff for DTG. I guess time will tell.
I have no doubt Rivet have had and will continue to be involved in creating DLC for DTG but I find it hard to believe they are now DTG's de-facto route builders, especially after the furore over WCML south.
Mind Fife Circle is a strange beast. I just did a run from Waverley to Markinch and, you know, I quite enjoyed it. The 170 seemed to behave itself sound wise this time and the engine/transmission cues seem accurate. The route itself is a perennial favourite, having been in BVE as Edinburgh to Aberdeen and the TSC JT route from Edinburgh to Dundee then later Fife Circle. Part of me secretly hopes Rivet are working on extending it to Dundee or maybe Aberdeen. It’s a nice challenging run with plenty of gradient changes, despite hugging the coastline for much of the way and speed changes. Could it be better? Definitely, yes, but on this occasion the pleasures outweigh the negatives.
Couldn't agree more Yes, this is another reason for my post, other developers coming in to save the day.
The model, like most rivet trains, is absolutely fine. In my eyes it's close to perfect visually so I am not against them taking it, updating it and giving it a while new physics model. That's the problem with rivet trains. To look at hey are great but to drive and listen to...not so much. The 170 is a step up although again, not perfect.
I think the point here is there's a difference between someone picking it up on game pass, running a few routes without safety systems, full hud, etc etc. A 'Hardcore Player' in my eyes is someone who has 90% of routes, learns the safety systems and signalling, drives to the correct rules of the railway, learns routes without hud, completes full end to end runs and so on. I get what they're saying.
Yes it's definitely a big step up. Scotrail express, Cornwall and I think OG island line are significantly worse in comparison. The sounds of the 170 are not so bad, I do not like the running sounds though, not enough clunks and trim rattles.
Agreed. Skyhook and JT are the only ones giving me hope RN. We shall see what the new 3rd party devs do with these upcoming releases but at this point with DTG's ridiculous deadlines I am very wary. I was a day 1 buyer but now I will wait 2 or 3 months to see if the problems get ironed out. Little things really bug me, especially in simulators so things like brokes sounds, bad lighting etc make routes unplayable for me. I will not touch Scotrail express and that awful 385
Very worrying to me as rivet are slated in the community for their route building and physics modeling. IMO outsourcing it to them is a terrible business choice as new DTG releases are going to keep being poor and the community let down. It still amazes me Koln-Achen is just getting a new timetable and where talking about TSW6, 4 games later for God sake.
So basically what your saying is to be properly hardcore you just got to sit playing trains in your underpants in your bedroom, as it's normally the case when anyone starts banging on about being a truly hardcore player, they are slightly over compensating for something.....
I'd define a hardcore player as an enthusiast who is already, or somewhat savvy with railway operations, and has a keen interest in railway. Or someone who plays simulator games in general for their realism. These players tend to play TSW consistently and are a consistently retained player base. Unless I've missed something, or have misunderstood something entirely... I don't know why you find it necessary to go out of your way to try and be antagonising to other forum members when they've done nothing wrong other then politely state their opinion? Nothing wrong with taking the opposite stance by all means, but there is no need to be rude, antagonising, or disrespectful.
So I qualify for what you described as a hardcore player, and I'm on Xbox. Therefore the OP is wrong as we do exist. I own over 90% of the DLC , I drive hudless, with all safety systems. I'm just old and not tech savvey enough want to purchase a gaming PC, the Series X is just fine for me.
Lol, sarcasm is lost on some folks of the world, I'd define myself as a hardcore player, I own every single piece of content this game has released, have also played the game in my underpants at least once in the time it first showed up in 2017/2018, can't remember exactly what year it was, and I'm an Xbox series X person too so clearly I'm as hardcore as they come.......
Agreed. I'd love to run TS classic but saving £2000 for a PC is hard at the minute lol. Series X for the most part runs everything really well.
That's the big problem in my opinion. Get rid of the idea that things like lighting, art, sounds or major changes will ever be addressed after release. If a route is bad at launch, for whatever reason, it will usually (!) stay that way (there are only a few exceptions). Maybe a few missing trophies or broken runs will be fixed, but that's it. I can see how priorities have changed at DTG when I think back to the "great" Christmas weeks. For two weeks they feed us updates to already known DLC, prepare us for a "big surprise", only to then introduce us to a toy locomotive on an old and boring route. And they celebrated themselves for it. Still pretty questionable to this day and together with the increasingly poor performance (from update to update) - even on good systems! - and the silence from DTG regarding improvements, I've lost a bit of interest in TSW at the moment.
True. If I was to get a gaming PC it would cost that much based on the specs I have been looking at, that's all.
