Mannheim-kaiserslautern Is A Really Bad Route (for The Rolling Stock)

They'd be not releasing a lot of routes then because on modern lines a LOT of the stock is reused for cost savings. Also licensing is harder with the new stuff. What happens if you have a line that doesn't have any unique stock in real life?
Per the discussions I've seen from DTG staff, it seems they need "something" unique on a route, but it doesn't have to be a loco or rolling stock, feature or landmark in particular... just "something new and/or interesting."

It was just easier to introduce new locos when the game was newer and many of them hadn't been done yet. Also when they hadn't focused so much on exclusively modern era which limits your options. Kinda painting themselves into a corner a bit.

As for licensing, I dunno what they do or don't have lined up.

 

Stock or no stock, doesn’t make a difference if the route is authentic. Mannheim to Kaiserslautern looks pretty impressive from the streams to be worth the money. I’m buying it tomorrow!

l will spend more going out for a meal and will have a takeaway instead, which will save me £30

 

If only more people thought that way.

 

I'm inclined to get it once the first patches are released for known issues including getting the TGV working.

 

We're a little lost, TGV won't run even as AI?

 

It does.

 

Not buying anymore of this dlc. Still haven’t fixed the ones I bought!!!

 

Will wait for the 80% off or bundle thanks, wallet marked safe.

 

I just got this route and got the first timetable on it was with the TGV which I try to start and it won't even work. Does this not even work with the DB power system then?

 

That is correct. But they did warn us that it would show up in the timetable mode on the stream

It should work when the 1st patch comes out they said.

 

From my point of view I would say “definitely yes”, and that’s not even solely related to quality concerns. I would prefer less new routes per year for Germany and rather have DTG develop larger Gameplay Packs for existing routes. This could refresh older routes, the packs could be sold separately or as a bundle for those who don’t own the route yet.

While with layers we have some good variety on TSW routes in Germany I feel there still some gaps which should offer opportunities for Gameplay Packs. They should contain new and/or updated rolling stock and an updated timetable.

Just one example for Linke Rheinstrecke:

• The route in that era desperately needs a fitting freight locomotive (as suggested here). So as a new loco a BR 140 could be implemented for freight, maybe a new freight wagon
• Include Silberlinge from the soon to be released Mittenwaldbahn, enable mixed trains with Silberlinge and Mintlinge
• Include BR 111 in cream/blue and IC coaches for IC and IR trains
• Include BR 110 in cream/blue
• Existing rolling stocks stays in the route
• Include new timetable

That would bring a ton of new life to Linke Rheinstrecke, I imagine a 25€ to 28€ price point.

 

Wished I'd looked at this thread before I purchased, main thing for me is that the route devs left out the bridge and tunnel reverb for who knows what reason? I was getting used to having reverb in these routes since Peterborough Doncaster now.... silence. this happened years ago to TSC; routes were glorious to drive with bridge sounds sweeping from front to back as you passed through them in fact TS back in the day touted how good the sounds were and to make sure you utilise them properly by having the right hardware/software enabled, now its a poor second cousin twice removed. Again!

 

That is useful to know.

Hopefully something that can be addressed in a patch but a fairly major omission for a 2025 route. Does make you wonder who actually built this - the intern?

Of course TSC also adds rumble effects for trains running over bridges, as well as reverb for structures over the line, something we are still yet to see in TSW.

 

The lack of sound channels could be an issue. You've got certain sounds cutting out or not playing at all if you turn your head away.

 

…Which might explain in some way why AI steam locomotive audio was notoriously notable by its absence.

 

And if as previously stated it’s a UE limitation, then proves UE was a poor choice for TSW. Though I never quite bought into that argument, other UE games seem to manage fine sound wise so could it just again be DTG’s lack of competence in using the platform.

 

Steam Reviews speak for them self..., good decision to go with a no buy.

 

As in TSC, sound samples reside in memory? Only a limited number of channels are available, and mixing has to be done on the fly, as opening a door or window, turning your 'head' or going past reflecting/refracting obstacles should change the sound.

However, in striving to obtain the 'ultimate in realism' and 'total immersion', sound is even more important than visuals.

Hearing birds chirping in a cab with the windows closed when you're at the controls of a locomotive working full power hardly is realistic, is it?

 

I don't think this was a good route choice. There are far better options for the area.

 

What a strange choice for Linke Rheinstrecke...just searching the Internet database "fernbahn.de" I found stunning 16 IC-trains between 1983 and 1997 using a BR 111, actually 111 095-6 in Lufthansa-Airport-Express livery. And well, using a prototype series of waggons, that was mostly used for "Wiesbaden-City"-trains. So, all in all, one train pair per day, in a special livery.

Furthermore, all IR-trains, I found, at least, 84 trains between 1993 and 1997, so between 3 and 8 train pairs per day in this period of time using BR 111, ran with Aimz/Arkimbz/Bimz-waggons. So, well, actually it seems like the proposed combination BR 111 in cream/blue and 'normal' IC waggons (Avmz/Bpmz) on ICs/IRs were never seen on Linke Rheinstrecke...

 

You are absolutely right that its not a 100% representation of the 90s. But I still would consider it a step forward because what we currently have in the LFR timetable is IC, EC, and IR all being done with the same set of coaches in Produktfarben with a red/cream 103. So have an additional loco and a set of coaches in different colors improves variety by a lot. For 1993 fernbahn.de shows 17 trains being worked by a 111 in Koblenz. However yes, it does not increase the level of accuracy in this route but thats not high at the moment in any case.

So the thought behind this suggestion is to add additional variety to Linke Rheinstrecke, which suffers (at least in my view) from a lack thereof. It's also trying to consider what might be feasible from DTGs business point of view, so what is available and can be put into such a Gameplay pack to be at a reasonable price point. Of course proper coaches would be the best choice.

And just as a fun note, back in those days almost everything was possible, in this video at 3:12 there is a 111 in S-Bahn livery with Silberlinge and one cream/blue coach. The video is from 1988 but the principle of many mixed colors was there for many years.

 

Hmm, well, I can't completely rule it out, that, let's say, in cases of regular maintenance or repairs of the regular loco (103), they would have replaced it by a 111 (seems to be a logical choice, as the fleet of 103 hadn't really had an every time/everywhere in Germany useable large reserve of locos available, it was allowed to go up to 160 km/h, while the 110 was limited to 140 km/h and the 120 was mostly used on trains using at least parts of the HSRs Hannover-Würzburg or Mannheim-Stuttgart). So, more or less, the fastest loco available, besides the 103, in a certain number and somewhat widespread in all regions of Germany. So, tossing an IC Dortmund-Köln-Basel with a 111 instead of the regular 103 in certain situations might not be completely unrealistic... .

 

So can anyone from DtG confirm or otherwise that a patch will be forthcoming for the lack of sounds?

 

and plus the rolling stock in the pfalziche ludwigsbahn definitely needs more rolling stock like for example DB BR 120 and the DB BR 151 because they run on the pfalzische ludwigsbahn route

 

Generally, German content has become of less & less interest to me, as DTG just keep putting out very similar routes with similar rolling stock all under DB. Salzburg Rosenheim was the peak of the mountaintop for them.

Looking at this route the thing that stood out to me the most is how the southern end seems to have a very similar atmosphere to RSN. It definitely peaked my interest but that was quickly deflated when I’ve looked into the timetable. The 425 would be pretty low down on the list of rolling stock I’d like to use on the route - similar to Electrostars you could pick out any of the 42X units & not have any real difference in gameplay.

The 111 seemed very fitting to what I would have liked to use, but only having 2 services made that a non starter.

The ICE-T with its tilting seems like it could be fun, but again only 2 services. The tilt combined with unique experience of low speed ICE runs would have made for a good USP.

The route itself seems like it could have offered a decent experience, between the higher speed urban centre running on one half, with the slower industrial valley theme on the other, but ultimately the rolling stock puts a downer on it. Then of course there is the usual dose of an ultimately cut short route, combined the usual dose of pushing content out before it’s ready.

Overall this route is a perfect example of the need for player freedom in substitution. The AI can stay locked in as needed, but there’s no reason for the player not to be able to use something else in place of assigned rolling stock on a service. I think it’s something German routes in particular really need.

 

I agree that Salzburg - Rosenheim is still the unsurpassed peak. I haven't traveled the route yet and what I read is generally more of a sad story than information that arouses desire. Somewhere in the stream, information about possible services or the ICE1 layer from KWG appeared, is it there?

 

Why would that be an issue when those sounds are present since the Doncaster route way back when and subsequent routes thereafter?

 

Person you responded to just has a habit of blindly jumping to DTG's defence without seeing the alternate viewpoint or thinking it through logically.

Like you I find it absurd that reverb under bridges and tunnels has become de facto on recent new routes but completely disregarded on this one. Yes there is the odd structure that slips the net even on WCMLoS but 99% of it is there.

 

This route also presents another problem, the expert 101 being shelved. The timetable only works with the original and inferior version of the BR 101 from HRR, not the expert one with its premium price tag thus devaluing the product.

Also the addition of the BR 111 is completely pointless as it only has 2 services, why? So DTG can tick it off as having guard mode since a whopping two services support it.

 

Maybe I am misinterpreting you, but to me “shelved” is a more permanent state. That couldn’t be further from the truth!
We are just waiting for the timetable to be in a stable state before we copy it to make the Expert timetable.

 

That’s good to hear because your answer differs significantly from Lukas’ on stream. As I understood him, he said something along the lines of “maybe, no real plans”.

 

Yes that was the assertion I was going under as well

 

Oh well, probably my first DE route for TSW I decided to skip and wait for reviews, patches and/or sale. Won't regret, there's still a lot of other unfinished journeys and services for me to enjoy. With that said, Mittenwald will still be day 1, unless something unexpected happens.

 

I can confirm that bridge and tunnel reverb are in the route, I only discovered this by driving the BR112! So the question that is going begging is... Is this a resource issue or loco/traction specific? As the 425 and 628 do not trigger these sounds? Could we have some clarification DtG please or is it a bug?

 

Well DTG should have had the timetable finalized at launch, right? The launch date they themselves decided upon?

I think it's fairly ridiculous that about half the TSW5 routes have released with an incomplete timetable, and after the EUS-MKC debacle, what confidence do we have that they'll even end up finishing Ludwigsbahn? Especially, if Steam reviews and word-of-mouth are anything to go by, it probably hasn't sold well at all. I could see DTG just deciding to cut their losses once again.

Just want to say i really appreciate all your work on TSW. Things would be in a much worse state without you.

But, as long-time player, i'm very disillusioned with TSW right now tbh.

 

You are aware dtg's devs don't set the release date, right?
Higher ups set a deadline and if it's not finished, tough. This is what happened with Cyberunk2077

 

Are there no other options than a cloned timetable?
Why isn't the Expert 101 just replacing the HRR one when you have the addon and 'Expert mode' enabled?

Just wondering ( i love the expert one )

 

I mean it's fine whatever the excuse is, but i'm personally done buying unfinished timetables.

I got burned on both Fife Circle (twice because i bought the Skyhook ScR 158, which was supposed to fix it but hasn't, yet) and EUS-MKC, which DTG have basically admitted they're never completely fixing.

So, Ludwugsbahn remains unbought until the timetable is finished. If they never finish it, then i never buy it. It's not even tempting for scenery since there's no new trains with it to layer anywhere else.

I'm having way too much fun with Derail Valley and Railroader right now to be in any hurry to buy TSW DLC.

 

You right guys...we dont buying, thats all...statistics will talk about it...

 

I get what you're saying, things shouldn't.be allowed on the market when they're openly acknowledging it's not finished. I have a feeling the devs aren't strong enough to push the release date back. Hopefully this route bombs and high ups either allow more time or allow the devs more say.

We can only dream of course.

 

Given as posted elsewhere Matt has stepped back from the forums (though hopefully as EP he is still reading the room as regards the customer mood and feedback), this is where the CM’s should be doing far more to offset concerns and assure people there is a plan to deal with all the issues. Whether core or route specific. But keeping customers in the dark when what is quite an expensive game and DLC’s have numerous problems to sort through is not best practice, IMHO.

 

Was hoping to watch a bit of last night’s FoR Mannheim stream this morning but it seems to be missing from the YouTube, which ends immediately after the Caltrain stream.

 

There is a new cab Ride From Frankfurt to Paris Est via Kaiserslautern and Saarbrucken to Paris

Part 1 + 2

Rolling stock : TGV 2N2 3UA

 

Has he? That's a shame.

 

Re the reverb it does indeed appear to be traction related currently the 401 628 425 101 do not play the reverb but the 143 218 155 112 do so far tried the 612 but I couldn't tell as there were no going through tunnels to be sure from the timetabled runs.

 

I've been watching this video, and it seems that after the update there are still problems with passengers, the stations are empty.

https://www.youtube.com/live/hXYfnk74zec?si=waWvj94EQ7mKQS98

 

This is the only possible option without basically a complete rework of the substitution system in TSW and significant menu/UI changes. It also would very likely have unintended side effects that aren't purely software engineering problems but design decisions that may be in the form of "50% of players hate option A and 50% hate option B". Some "teasers" for what this would mean are:
- Formations no longer being static but changing in the number of coaches
- Driving vehicle no longer being static but possibly changing from a locomotive in the front to a cab car in the front.

Basically the IC Expert coaches are very different from the original IC coaches in TSW where it matters: jumper cable communication simulation. The IC Expert jumper cable simulates basically the full UIC cable with things like frequency and time division multiplexing for the ZWS control with the cab car, but also things like battery simulation and door simulation in Simugraph. Even without the incompatible communication, just swapping out the locomotive would be a lesser experience in terms of realism.

Then you have the cab car, which can't substitute because it is not a locomotive (and this is where the rework of the substitution system and the UI comes in). Even if all this was done, all the timetables using the IC, and the original BR101 DLC would have to be edited and retested. It's completely intractable

The current solution isn't optimal and means a delay before BR 101 Expert users can drive the loco/cab car on new routes, but it is the only realistic way.

 

this also means where there's time. additional edits and looks at older timetables like the ICE-T on Dresden - Riesa can be added too. I wish that timetable and Dresden chemnitz got a rework though. those both can be even better routes then

 

That's really sad - anyone have a link for the post in which this was said please? Curious to see if any reason was given. Matt's input to threads was often greatly received and appreciated, and it was pretty cool to have him around the forums to answer any queries

 

He said so on his Stream today. He is avoiding it.