Mods And Dovetail Live

Picked up on this from the patch announcement… Does this mean any mod in the DLC folder even just those for graphic improvements will inhibit any Live activity including mastery? DTG Harry could you kindly clarify please as the God mode and graphics assistance are essential to tame the lighting on most routes?

• Disabled uploading to Dovetail Live Services when pack mods are in use.

 

I just tried it, you can't upload anything to creators club while any .pak mods including god mode are installed. I think things that don't involve uploading to creators club should work, though I haven't tried that yet

It is slightly annoying having to move every mod out every time you want to upload something though

 

Sorry for pings but DTG Alex and DTG Harry , any more info on this please? Most of us aren’t using mods to cheat, just to enhance the graphics and aural experience. Luckily think the only mod I have in there at present is the WCML lighting, didn’t get round to sorting out why God mode and the environment mod weren’t working for me last time I tried. But this is a kick in the teeth for those of us using harmless mods.

 

I assume only.
It's probably because they don't want to have modded footage displayed anywhere on their official channels as it's not representing what the game looks like or what people can expect to see and have. Even if it's just cosmetic.

Screenshots showing modded content can be misleading, especially for console users, if not explicitly labeled as altered content.

 

I’m going to hazard a guess that there’s a risk if you upload content to Dovetail live that’s been created when you’ve a mod it’s going to cause anyone downloading it issues if they don’t have the same mod installed.

Seems like a sensible precaution is to prevent modded content being up loaded personally

 

This sounds a bit shocking. Why dtg haven't incorporated a mod manager into the game is beyond me.
Mastery isn't something I'm interested in, nor are the liveries, that don't work without a active Internet connection.
Still not good news for the players that do.

 

That is fair enough (maybe) but having a mod to improve the graphics should not affect getting a route or monthly Mastery. Despite the pings, still waiting for DTG to confirm exactly what is and isn’t covered. Looks like my first job this evening will be removing my WCMLOS lighting mod and any traction sound mods I might have forgotten.

 

Just created a couple of new liveries on LD...... I have no mods that improve anything to do with liveries but I can confirm that when I come to take my screenshots in game of the new custom liveries to add to the upload it won't now allow me to take Dovetail Live screenshots only screenshots via ctrl + F12 so it's obviously a case of any mod what so ever means no uploading of any type content to Dovetail Live.

IMO this just means those on console will lose out on some liveries as I'm not sure myself and others will think it's worth moving every mod from the DLC folder just to take screenshots and upload the livery then move it all back again every single time we create something and will just mean those liveries are only available to PC users via other sites.


Very much a MASSIVE backward step if you ask me.

 

No that's not the case...... If you had the Logo Pack mod for instance and created a livery using one of those logos all that happened if someone without the mod downloaded it was that whatever logo you used from the pack just didn't appear on the livery. (So for instance if it was a BR double arrow logo you had used then the livery would still work but wouldn't have the BR double arrow logo wherever you had placed it on the model).

 

TSW is a game, marketed towards the consoles, meant for thumbstick warriors wanting to drive a train for a change.

DTG is not really interested in simulation enthousiasts.

w/o mods TSW is not interesting to me at all, I don't care for collectibles. XP points, medals and mastery, not at all.

 

Sounds like more licensing problems to me. I wonder if some IP holder saw screenshot they didn't like and sent DTG a takedown notice.

Honestly a little surprising it's taken this long with how agressive some of them can be.


Yikes, this has been a really rough stretch for TSW lately.

 

Well the good news it doesen't seem to affect Mastery as finishing my latest run I now have 15/15 Timetable runs shown complete wherwas before it was only 14/15. Can't really tell from the distance as that seems to update when it feels like it. However as a precaution until (if) someone from DTG CBA to offer a more detailed briefing, I've removed the one and only mod, which was for Shap lighting.

 

I dont really know why this change was implemented but it seems that DTG have real issues with us PC guys….

 

From what I've seen it only affects the upload of livery/scenario/formation in the creator club

So if you are not interested in that, it should not change much for you but for others (I am in this case) it is a problem

 

All the liveries I've subscribed to do not show in the spawn menu. Unless I'm connected to dovetail live.

 

One thing which maybe avoids moving all mods out everytime you want to upload some content to DTL, is having all of your mods in a folder outside of the installation files, create a shortcut to it and then place the shortcut in the DLC folder. In this way, you just need to move out the shortcut and not each and every mod.

This might not work for replacement mods (eventually preceded by "!") though as the game substitutes files on original DLCs when loading the game.

Can't currently test it.

No, as the note mentions "Disabled uploading" so for example when uploading screenshots or custom liveries, scenarios and/or formations to Creator's Club. It should not affect Mastery (at least by the current wording of the note and I hope it will keep so as well).

While I understand that argument, they could implement a filter that only in-game visuals are applied to screenshots. Not the visuals made by mods.

It's not necessary to limit the capabilities of the player for that.

In fact, I'm quite surprised that it was possible to do that. I thought visual changes done by mods would only apply to the user of the mod and that screenshots would automatically have these enhancements removed/not inside.

It should not as mods usually don't have the ability to alter custom scenarios, liveries and formations created in the respective in-game designers in a way that the recipient needs to have the same mod installed in order to use it. I don't know of a single one which does so.



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Personal note of mine:
This patch note is also confusing.

"Fixed a crashing issue that occurred when uploading a mod in Creator’s Club."

The wording of "mod" is incorrect. Noone ever was able to upload mods to Creators Club. This is a thing I actually want for a long time to happen, but it probably never will. Rather it should have been called "a creation".

And yeah, we'll definitely need more informations on why thats happening as well. Why wasn't this mentioned in any of the roadmaps before as quite a big step against the modding community? And what could be the next step actually?

 

Think you are right Bob. But as a precaution I’ve removed my one and only (!) mod at least until I complete the February Mastery.

 

Unfortunately DTG decided to call liveries and scenarios made with the in-game tools ‘mods’ for some reason even though unofficial mods were already available before the creation of the tools. So we now have the same word referring to two different things. It’s like how they refer to a service in a timetable as a timetable, as in ‘drive three timetables’ to get a Mastery award or something. It’s just bad naming of things.

 

Thank you very much for the quick update, Alex!

One question to

Is it known if a certain type of mod is causing these crashes or it involves all types of mods (pak reskins, texture replacement mods, scenery enhancement mods, general game improvement mods, patch mods and even route mods)?

 

I am guessing that mods that replace existing plugins are fine, but a mod that adds a new plugin (or has a mod as a dependency) would cause a crash for anyone without that mod

Maybe they could add an optional filter that would hide any creators club content that referenced non-official plugins, that PC users could turn off if they wanted

 

Also something for the modders to consider… as we currently need God Mode to enable the environment mod, and God is probably on the hit list, maybe devise a system that allows us to change the lighting, weather etc. that removes the need for God to be there. At one point just changing or adding a few lines to the ini file was enough to get better graphics, maybe it’s time to revert to that way of doing it.

Oh and of course, maybe time DTG cracked on and gave us more graphic and environmental options in Settings so the mods aren’t actually needed!

 

100% agree with this. My favorite and most used option in God Mode is the ability to change weather and time on the fly (plus actually running at crouch speed 1000000x). We need this in game so much.

 

My assumption is rather the opposite, that it could be for mods replacing files. So if someone uploads a livery or scenario with an "altered" loco to the orginal one with the exact original files (verification might also need to be considered here), it may cause a crash.

Could a pak containing a new plugin or a replacement mod with a separate plugin for the RVV even be uploaded to Creator's Club?

 

I've just selected and used a livery from CC that I'm subscribed to without any issue and I've obviously got mods in the DLC folder as I cannot upload photos or liveries to Dovetail Live.

 

Offline?

 

No Online as would be usual...... Not sure what you're getting at trying to use CC content when offline as you have always had to be connected to DTL to use CC content haven't you?

 

Thats what I ment. I subscribe to community content yet it don't work when I'm not online. It downloads it when I subscribe so can't see why I need a Internet connection to use it.

 

But that always been the case..... It's nothing to do with what this post is about.....

 

I appreciate what you’re saying and obviously what you do is up to you, but my mod specifically will always use GodMode, and for good reason. The mod simply wouldn’t be what it is without it, it wouldn’t work in the same way nor provide such a game-enhancing experience.

Unfortunately one size does not fit all and attempting to make it so is entirely impossible. Not only is every ToDv4 route different, you also have an entirely different lighting setup on the older routes so, to put it bluntly, it simply would not work. Additionally, aside from losing the ability to make my mod what it is, to lose the control over the game that GodMode provides is a non-negotiable for me, with the loss of both mods I would rather go and play something else to be honest. You’ll have to take my word for it that a not insignificant number of people have told me the same thing.

As I type this I’m putting the finishing touches to the lovely new Innsbruck route, adding it to the mod. Based on the Frankfurt - Fulda preset, this has needed a fair bit of adjustment to look right on this route. That, of course, would not be possible without this method of working.

 

Spot on could not agree more

 

Whats tsw Without the mods, tw?

 

Fair points! I will have to take another go at getting God and the environment mod working. Though from what I’ve played on Mittenwaldbahn so far, vanilla doesn’t look too bad. But always room for improvement…

Think my main thrust is that DTG should be providing enhanced graphics options and choices so we don’t actually need to resort to modding the game to get the best out of it.

 

Fantastic DTG recognises the importance of God Mode to the PC community. It's a fantastic tool for those if us that choose to improve the visuals and performance of the game.

 

I absolutely agree, but this mod came after waiting endlessly for that to happen. When it became obvious it wasn’t going to I felt that for me to enjoy playing the game going forward I had to take matters into my own hands. The fact that other people enjoy it is a nice thing.

I’ve been critical of both the game and DTG in the past and stand by (almost) everything I’ve said. Equally, I’ve been keen to praise both when things have been good, and in my eyes the game has never been as good as it is at the moment. Although there are still too many errors (for example it looks like somehow, yet again, they’ve managed to break the baked lighting at Euston with the last patch) the general trend is inexorably upward which is to all of our benefits. I would love to have these graphics settings and lighting adopted officially but sadly I can’t ever see it happening. With that said, I’m off to put the finishing touches to Innsbruck.

What is the problem with GodMode and my mod? They’re simply drag and drop.

 

Think I posted at the time, despite putting the current files in the correct place and making the ini changes I couldn’t get the menu to appear at the top of the screen. That was a couple of months ago, well before Christmas so time for another go later. I will report hopefully with success!

 

But as far as I understood, the problem now is that the new patch which disables uploads to DTL (Creator's Club) also affects God Mod as it is an additional pak mod, meaning we have to move it out for uploading content. So a pushback for users of that even.

Therefore we asked, if GodMod is going to be restricted even, why can't the game include settings which GodMod uses and already are implemented in the game files but not accessible via the game. I don't think DTG would ever be able to 100% replace GodMod (the ressources aren't even there to implement and test all of these), but if even GodMod is on the blacklist now, why can't we at least toggle the weather in the session? This would be such a great new feature when being implemented into the game itself and also console players would be able to benefit from it.

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Regarding the current problem of losing GodMod itself (at least when uploading content), I asked therefore if a certain type of mod is causing these issues, so if DTG change/refine this "We now disable uploads when all pak mods used" recent patch now to "We may allow certain types of mods" or "We disable uploads only at these types of mods", it definitely would be better for the part of the PC community which uses mods regularly or even can't play the game without.

 

Wouldn’t the simpler solution be for users to stop uploading modded content to Dovetail Live? I have to say, I’m a bit surprised that even needs saying.

 

My guess, it's a lot easier/cheaper for dtg to ban modded games from dovetail live than it is to stop users uploading modded content.

 

Probably, but as usual the few seem to have spoilt it for everyone else

 

We have no information what exactly is causing the issues. The only thing we know is that - When players uploaded content having some mods installed, it will cause crashes for others when they download this content and do not have the same mods installed.

We have no information about a.) the type of content being uploaded nor b.) what mods are causing it.

I have no clue how one even could upload modded content to DTL (aside from visually enhanced screenshots), as AFAIK we can't upload custom variants as a Livery Designer livery or add it to any scenario or formation or something like that.

My assumption was when uploading reskins or scenarios, and the user has a replacment mod for anything inside of the vehicle installed, the game may tries to fetch these replaced files and maybe it messes up with verification of the data at some point at their servers even.

 

Would a more elegant solution not be to disable uploads to DTL if mods are detected, putting the onus on the user to disable their mods first, rather than blanket disable everyone’s mods to allow uploads. It all seems a bit arse about face to me

I don’t really care much for DTL, never use Creators Club or Scenarios and genuinely not remotely interested in mastery either so I’m sure that for me, as for many others, this is going to be a huge inconvenience.

 

No, the former is what currently is the case. Mods are not disabled, but the uploading of content to CC is when mods being detected in the DLC folder.

What would be good is if there would be a legit UI Mod Manager in Train Sim World (just like in ETS2) and then the player can enable/disable installed mods in there without the need to move them manually out of the game files (this actually kind of works for Scenery Overlay mods already which use the Mastery Overlay menu to enable/disable them by marking their themes).

This would also help much for incompatibilites between mods and is beside the load order of mods - which is even more important for ETS2 than for TSW - AFAIK also the reason why SCS invented it for ETS2.

But I guess to much time and ressources necessary to invent such a feature for TSW.

 

Verdict seems to be out on whether it actually affects Mastery. I mean technically it could as you might use the mod to make a scenario easier by changing the weather. Some of those early German routes had freight runs which were impossible to do in the rain with low adhesion. Also Clinchfield if memory serves me correctly.

 

I didn't know it was possible to upload modded files to Dovetail Live. You would have thought it wouldn't have been possible.

Yeah I totally agree, if dtg can detect a modded game when uploading, surley they can detect modded content and block the upload. Instead of making you chose between mods or dovetail live.

 

Dtg have had how many years now, to develop some kind of mod manager?

 

It's only affecting uploads of photos and files. Mastery is working fine for me along with use of CC Subscriptions and I have numerous mods installed.