Mittenwaldbahn Discussion Thread!

yeah, the training centre could do with a big hill.

 

TSG and Just Trains really are at the top of the food chain in terms of overall route development. Creating the best DLCs possible. Scenery wise, Gameplay Wise and timetable wise.

These developers show us all that Train Sim World is capable of so much, and has so much potential, if you just add time and a little bit of passion.


I’m not too sure on anyone else, but I would much rather wait longer for routes to turn out like this, than something kind of boring and stalemate in a few months.

quality > quantity

 

Does the route have the TSW5 track shadows? Currently testing on foot at Innsbruck West, and I’m not sure if they’re there.

 

I don't know what happens, but on my PC this route is running between 15-25 FPS...

Edit: I was comparing this route with the Boston Worcester. While in the first one my GPU utilization is 30 to 40%, in Boston it is between 70 to 90%...

 

Is this route worth the price

 

it looks like its depending on your system. PC; yes, PS5; maybe, Xbox; no its not.

 

What are your PC specs? Exact CPU and GPU model...?

 

Love the route. Driving the 1020 is a joy even she is a bit quiet for me. Most important of all: No blurry textures in sight on PS5. Performance is as expected similar to Niddertalbahn - surprisingly intense with some parts dropping to 20-30fps. That’s what the fps counter said but it looked smoother than that to me - maybe I was too preoccupied managing the 1020 though.

I’ll wholeheartedly recommend the route. The bygone Bundesbahn flair is lovely. Also love some of the attention to detail - the freight cars have all been rebranded with proper Bundesbahn logos, which DTG couldn’t be bothered to for LFR. The new 111 sounds also really enhance the experience on her.

Some things have slipped through the net though as outlined in my quoted post below.

Still, absolutely looking forward to my next run

 

Yes there are a few minor snagging issues and the controls on the 1020 need a bit of refinement as I mentioned in the official feedback thread. Route actually gives me a Derail Valley vibe. Heartwarming and glorious, a far cry from DTG’s 70km stale inter urban formula. I hope it sells really well for TSG and encourages more in the same vein.

 

AMD Ryzen 5 5600g
RTX 4060 8GB
32GB RAM DDR4 2666Mhz
HD NVME 1TB
Windows 11

 

Save for a few niggles that are probably easy fixes (mostly erroneous materials) this route is an absolute triumph. Well done!

 

Hauling freight up the hill with ÖBB 1020 -

I tried first freight service with 1020, the train weight was about 670t and been struggling with maintaining at least 40kph when going uphill at 3-4 gradients. Anyone found out some tips for those situations, when this warning shows up? Blowers were at fast setting of course, I even opened the doors to engine room to provide some more cooling, lol.


I tried to reduce power wheel at like 11.100 (to keep gauge G at minimum), the gauge C dropped bellow 200A but then I hardly kept like 30kmh speed and was woried about delaying other services whose waiting for me to pass. Another warning I got was about secondary transformer about to overheat - gauge G - my objective is to keep the arrow at full, 1/2 or at minimum to avoid more overheating?

Also Wondering how do real drivers noticed their transformers are heating up too much, when they are no thermo-meter gauges in cab?

 

Gauge G has to be kept at full to prevent overheating.

 

It's just not a very powerful loco. Its 'Dauerleistung' (continuous power) is only 3000 kW where your typical BR 185.2 can do 5600 kW or roughly 375 amperes. So it makes sense that freight trains would slow down on heavy climbs like the Mittenwaldbahn.

 

Correct, it doesn't seem like it but if you look further in the manual, namely at the chapter on how to operate the throttle and brake, you'd see that basically, you can put the controller so that the marker on the G gauge is at "Voll" or Full, which indicates that you are exactly at a tap position, like on tap 2 or tap 3. The space between the taps however whilst they do apply power, they generate heat, for a reason I kind of don't exactly understand myself, but as such, you are to normally only remain in between two taps for no more than 30 seconds.

 

Final Impressions & Review (Steam-PC)
After 4 complete services: northbound and southbound passenger, freight and shunting.
This route is wonderful (full of details and fantastic views). The setting is crazy, nature is lush and well planned!
Rolling stock is very good, especially the 1020, which is so, so difficult to drive. Note of merit also to Br 111, Silberlinge and UIC-Zs! A route for those who love challenge, managing steep slopes with old and less powerful traction!



Current issues:
- Wrong 1020 chassis color (change it to charcoal/black).
- Polygonal issue with the 1020 frame? (it seems rather "weird", as if it was incorrectly rendered...).
- 1020 is too "quiet", at least fan sound should be increased a bit.
- Lack of Indusi magnets at some signals.
- Strange behavior of the new animated cows (they get stuck, sometimes they stop on your track).
- The OHLE pole bases (on viaducts) are literally void suspended (I recommend to integrating a fixing base to the bridge!).
- Some areas (especially on slopes and under viaducts) are almost out of grass, showing that weird, flat green texture!



I had no issues with landscape/background rendering. Just a small blurr that sometimes occurs on 111s that cross you along the way.
Overall, I'd say that all the above-listed issues are absolutely solvable in a short timeframe! My only concern remains that 1020 underside... 9/10 For now, TSG! Great work, you deserve it!

PS. Is this purchase highly recommended? Of course, at least for PC users!

Caravatt.

 

I believe that’s intentional, the idea being you whistle to get them out of the way! Brilliant level of detail

 

Yes, thats the way it is inteded, however, the cows get stuck, currently, as acknowleged by the developer.

On another note, can anyone direct me how to change the brake mode on the 1020?! I somehow I seem to be unable to find them... Not mentioned in the manual, however, the brake weight is indicated on the loco to be different for G and P, at least

 

Can you please tell me which manual is the latest one then?

I have two, one downloaded from Steam with the name of Mittenwaldbahn_Manual.pdf and one from DTG named Mittenwaldbahn.pdf. The one from Steam is a bit larger...

 

From now, any link to the manual is updated, if you have the previous one, take the one from Steam, that's the updated one! You can also check my links just below in my signature space.

 

That is in fact mentioned on the manual, it's just a bit different than you'd expect. Check page 19:

What you're looking for is levers 1 and 3, the yellow ones, they switch the braking mode per bogie. As you can see they are written as either Passenger or Goods, instead of just P and G which would be more technically correct I suppose.
I do not see *any* other lever that come close to having such a function. DominusEdwardius may be able to confirm if I'm correct or not!

 

Mmm... really hard to say what the issue could be with these specs. The truth is the route seems to have higher demands on single thread CPU performance. Wonder if the issue could be there... although the 5600G's single thread is not that bad... but generally if your GPU has such a low usage there must be a bottleneck somewhere. And usually it is the CPU...

 

Thanks a lot. BTW the manual is very well written and looks amazing... great job indeed!

 

Thank you! I try to make them as helpful as I can although I understand that some details could still use some work. As fo4 the looks I tried to make it look a bit dated in font and format, and if anyone noticed, same thing as in the Niddertalbahn, I used the main loco's colour! (Blutorange/Blood Orange for the Mittenwaldbahn, and Minttürkis/Mint Turquoise for the Niddertalbahn)

 

As much as the route is beautiful and very good, unfortunately I had to ask for a refund, because with my settings on this specific route the FPS is very low. Maybe later when I upgrade my motherboard and processor I'll get it back...

 

I found this lovely cab ride of the very same E94/1020 TSG used for reference.

You can see some nice things like the use of the schnell-aus while tapping down. However, it also shows that the E94 is anything but quiet. To be fair, some/all of the sound might come from the cameras in the engine room but still. The fans drone loudly. I don’t know, maybe it’s just me but I feel like TSGs’ 1020 is too quiet.

 

I agree and have two things that would be really nice to add or change... make the 1020 louder and add a key binding for the schnell aus...

 

Second (or is it third) that about the sound. It’s a bit of a shame that the superior aural experience, both in terms of traction and track noise, comes from driving the 111 rather than the 1020.

 

Iv found a bug on scenario Local Collection stuck at a red light with no trains coming tried to tab says denied check switches

 

Mittenwald pronunciation guide (the dashes break up syllables, they don't represent gaps in speech)

Innsbruck: Inns-brook
Innsbruck West: Inns-brook vest
Innsbruck Hötting Inns-brook Hoe-ting
Allerheiligenhöfe - Aller-high-liggen-hoe-fuh
Kranebitten: Krah-nuh-bitten
Martinswand: Martin-zvand (rhymes with land)
Hochzirl: Hock*t-seerl
Leithen: Lighten
Reith bei Seefeld: Right by Zayfeld
Seefeld in Tirol: Zay-feld in Ti-rol
Scharnitz: Shar-nitz
Mittenwald: Mitten-vald (rhymes with the 'mald' in formaldeyhde, not with 'bald')
Klais: Klyce
Kainzenbad: Kynce-'n'-bahd
Garmisch-Partenkichen: Gar-misch Parton-keer-k*en

k* is pronounced like the welsh ch.

 

There are levers in the machine room. It's documented in the manual.

 

I get the Derail Valley vibe as well- it's great!

Speaking of which, DV has a 6-axle overhead electric loco in development- maybe it's a Krokodil clone? It would certainly be a challenge on some of those gradients lol.

Some of those turnouts are really tight though, but otoh the DE6 is pretty long as well and does fine, and presumably there will be track changes when they install the OHLE in any case.

 

During the "A Shovelly Time" scenario in the area where you connect to the failed train there is a fence there with no collision and I found myself falling down the mountain

 

The video does not show on my phone, could you please post again the link or the name of the video on YT? Many thanks!

 

Of course, click here for the video: Bewegung im Maschinenraum - Unterwegs mit E94 088
For future reference, if videos aren’t showing on your phone, you probably need to allow 3rd party cookies on the TSW forum. That usually fixes it.

 

Do you even test the scenarios , ski slope special yet another red light when trying to turn the train round what a waste of time

 

Have you tried contacting the dispatcher and setting the switches correctly (I can see the manual double crossover switch is not aligned correctly)? I’ve had it before that I had to manually set the switch correctly before getting a green. I’ve completed the scenario without any issue on PS5.

 

yea i have said denied wait for signal to change and i tied changing to points

 

I wanted to clarify the root cause of the reduced draw distance for Xbox as I had recalled, but, as stated, seems far-fetched. I was able to locate the stream I thought I had remembered. TSW May 2024 Roadmap, start watching at 1:10:28. This is what I hear:

1) All Xbox uses "Gen 8" draw distance.

2) PS5 uses the "PC numbers." It was originally intended to use "Gen 8" numbers as well but because of an "error in the config file," it does not.

3) For Series X to be upgraded would require more memory. In this sense DTG states that Series S is holding back Series X, due to the memory requirements. Why there can't be different versions for S/X, isn't directly addressed.

https://www.youtube.com/live/hqvHF7PUm2k?si=tUY9X7pE3NS9oyE-

I haven't really heard DTG speak about Xbox draw distances before or after. The other interesting note is that, in the SRM preview stream, there is a point where Matt mentions that the mountains there were done with a "different technique" so that they would not be affected by draw distance. Why this hasn't been done for Mittenwaldbahn or other routes, is not known.

I will report this in a few other threads that are currently dealing with the topic of Xbox draw distance.

 

Thanks for finding the link from such a long time ago, that must’ve been a challenge!

And Matt actually said it in that stream, wow. His words still don’t make a ton of sense though. He says Xbox Series S/X (apparently intentionally) got the Gen8 draw distance, while PS5 erroneously got the PC one. He then goes on to say that Xbox Series X could easily get the PC draw distance as well if they could separate it out from the Series S version. This essentially implies that PS5 can handle the PC draw distance with no issues (since there’s no Series S equivalent holding it back). But why was it added to the PS5 “erroneously” then, if it can handle it easily?

I’m gonna put it down to the lengthy stream, Matt was probably just tired at the end.

The gist seems to be:

• The PS5 and Xbox Series S hardware can handle PC high settings (including increased draw distance) with no problems. The current blur/crash issues for a small portion of PS5 players appear to be unrelated (perhaps to blame on a certain combination of add-ons/settings, a memory leak etc.).
• Basic settings (including draw distance) are determined upon startup of the game, and the Xbox version of the game lacks the ability to differentiate between Series S and X during that startup procedure, so it needs to use the same (and lower) draw distance for both.

-> DTG needs to add a way for the game to realize which Xbox console it is running on during startup so it can change the settings accordingly, or allow the players to do so manually (e.g. a settings menu).

By the way, I believe the Salzburg-Rosenheim mountains are completely unrelated. They’re quite far away from the playable area (you never even get close to them), so they did some magic to add them to the skybox instead of actually implementing them into the 3D mal. This would’ve been problematic for all systems, as even the best PC doesn’t have infinite draw distance. You can’t see Milton Keynes from London in the game, even if you go really high up with the camera.
In the Mittenwaldbahn, you literally go through a mountain range, so they couldn’t resort to that same trick. You’ve got nearby mountains casting shadows, being partially engulfed by clouds etc.

 

Yeah I think this is the best route, certainly the best looking. Absolutely gorgeous.

 

it has several holes aka bad fitting landscape pieces
but otherwise a great looking route

 

Agree. Dropping down now into Mittenwald in daylight I had to think, this is like nothing we have ever seen in TSW to date. It even tops WCML Over Shap for scenery genius. A few years ago there was a guy active on the Trainz scene who rather immodestly christened himself the "Rembrandt Of Trainz". Well coming forward to now, think that accolade rightly belongs to the TSG team as "The Rembrandts of TSW".

 

As for the textures, we're not entirely sure about that at TSG at the moment.

 

It might have just been the service I have run but I had no caution signals on the approach to Garmisch-Partenkirchen. The hud shows a speed drop to 40kph but the was no caution signals or speed reduction warning. Just all clear. Not entirely sure that is correct but I'm not 100% sure with German signalling.

 

A worthy successor to Niddertalbahn. The descent into the Inntal is great, the sense of height is second to none. Glad the 111 is there too, which is a bit less intense than the Krokodil, but looking forward to taming that one is well. Would be awesome if the 218 could make an appearance. Some of the more distant scenery, such as the villages in the Inntal that are visible during the descent, are a bit lacklustre, but overall kudos to TSG!

 

Learn to use loco brake to hold the train properly. Loco brake does not have traction lock, so you can first go into throttle and only then release the loco brake when the loco has enough power built already to not slide back.

I'm not familiar with 1020 in particular, but if it's built like most of locos from <1970s, it uses resistance power regulation -- it actually only has full taps that are relatively far from each other, and to fill the levels of power output between them, resistors are used to artificially limit the power output from the next following tap.

That gives you much more fine-grained control while keeping engines technically very simple, but the resistors are heating up a lot and all resisted power is wasted as heat and wear of the components. So setting power to 2.100 would actually use tap 3 but (simplified) waste the "0.900" part into heat. So everything inbetween is considered "non-economical power level" and drivers are supposed to use them only as little as necessary.

 

Ah yes it's something like that! That indeed makes a lot of sense. Resistors would also heat up too hence why the power controller shouldn't be in between those taps for very long.

 

No resistances as such on this thing for moderating traction power, its done a very different way with a centre tapped secondary transformer and a device called a fine regulator. At any one time 2 taps are connected to either end of secondary windings, while the primary winding is connected to the fine regulator. When you stay in between notches its actually the secondary transformer that overheats, not any resistances.

 

could really be, but I found many annoying bugs/issues that shouldn't be there in my opinion for the cost of the route. For example, i have a very weird and annoying problem where TSW doesn't save my progress on the Mittenwald route once i close the game after playing it for a bit. I maybe complete a service, close the game, reopen it and it's like i'm playing it for the first time, only with this route. Also, the sounds seem a bit off, as i don't hear any difference opening the cab windows or not. it obv gets louder in tunnels but volume or depth of audio doesn't change opening or closing the windows. There are also some little bugs here and there..It's a well made route and the 1020 is gorgeous, but i think there's still some work to do. Also, if someone has the same issues as me, mostly regarding the route saving thing, let me know.