Alan Thompson Simulation Route Discussion/speculation Thread

Have to say, I fully agree and love you're opinions mate.

 

Well said, and quite true IMO.

This train of thoughts only confirms my resolution not to buy any DTG DLC that is 'made on the cheap' but sells for full price and above.
Playing other much more rewarding, and less aspiring 'the ultimate in train simulation' games/simulations, I am more or less done with TSW with anything coming from DTG.
If DTG doesn't up their game with content that does provide a logical end-to-end run, comes with appropriate rolling stock and isn't infested with bugs and shows obvious lack of QA just to meet deadlines and make ends meet (budget wise that is), there is no place for DTG in the market for PC players with reasonable demands to a rail transport simulation
Catering to the closed market consoles and the casual thumbstick warrior wanting to play with trains or kiddies wanting to play with TTTE and friends isn't for me.

 

If you mean that JT started with a short, " getting to know UE " route, that's not what happened. Blackpool Branches was a full- fat 50 mile route with custom assets, lots of rolling stock (some new, some borrowed ) and a quality build.

Essentially they did what DTG did with Heavy Haul/ Sand Patch Grade. Took their time, got the important things right without trying to include unnecessary features that ate up memory and development time. Neither Blackpool nor SPG is perfect, but both are better than most everything else in TSW ( TSG excepted ).

We see that that model works. JT and TSG have built reputations that ensure their future efforts will garner excitement and higher sales/revenue. Unfortunately, DTG has lost the plot and now builds mostly short, repetitive electric bus services that garner trepidation as they approach release and often disappoint like WCML.

If DTG would go back to its original matrix that lasted through Rush Hour but hasn't been seen since and adopted a different business plan with perhaps fewer longer and higher quality routes with a more elongated revenue stream, the future of TSW would be much brighter in my opinion.

 

Exactly this, thing they seem to care more about features we don't really give a toss about even tho its a cool feature such as working Elevators, Escalators etc Whether its now easier to implement now cause they done not sure. But what you said they have completely lost the plot now which is a shame.

 

All well and good, but the results in TSW are still less satisfying than TSC. I´m staying with the old game and all it´s floors, as long as we get short and strange routes in TSW.
I still don´t get the editor of TSW to be honest. All these contradictory statements (even in your own posts) about it only beeing for the super experts, but at the same it´s so much better and easier than TSC. Don´t make sense to me.
The only thing I can understand is that you have to model stations much more in detail in TSW, because you can walk around in them.
I´ll stick with my "amateur building" in the TSC editor and leave everything else to the experts.

 

100% on this... I also thought Train Sim World would be this great new simulator, that would be superior to TSC and leave behind all it´s problems. I remember the wind of change and excitement within the community. I was ready to say to goodbye to TSC and move on to a better future. Almost 10 years down the line we have ended up with a very small and boxed in "world" full of bugs and short cut off routes.

 

Me too fwiw. Heck I'd even pay £150 for a really good proper long distance UK route. We're a market that's assumed to be small but I'm not convinced we are.

 

100% me too mate! Think about the Profits Dovetail could make. Being Optimistic here.
But someone said earlier in the thread, it be like beneficial to have 2 teams, One for your longer High Speed runs and Shorter runs. Loads of skilled devs out there who want opportunities like this, give a chance to get more people jobs and get more profits. They need to have a business idea.

 

TSW's flaws have nothing to do with the game engine, IMO. It's purely down to DTG's budget constraints and project (mis)management.

We've seen the amazing things 3rd parties (and DTG occassionally) have created with the proper time and budget allocated.

 

I would beg to differ. They have recreated old TSC routes (WCML over Shap) or even shorter routes (WCML South). Nothing groundbreaking. Have we seen a route double the lengh of TSC or a massive network?
When TSW first came out, the hope was: bigger, better, longer! You can see these developments in flight simulation, truck simulation and other areas...whilst DTG is making train simulation smaller and shorter over time. This is not what I want as a customer. I want to see things getting bigger and better, not shorter and more constrained.
Just ask yourself honestly: when this franchise first started, did you expect and hope for things like Thomas The Tank Engine on West Sommerset or Stratford to Willesden Junction? Or would you think that the successor of Train Sim Classic would make everything bigger and better?
Players on these forums just have excepted the narrative of: "oh well, it has better graphics and you can walk around first person, so it´s all very complex and difficult and we have to expect less". What is that for a message to spread as a company? "expect less".

 

Greater Anglia won't be around to be an issue from Autumn when the franchise ends.

A "Greater Anglia" franchise-era route won't happen, but a pre-2012 or a 2025-onwards Great British Railways version is possible if DTG can get the GBR licence.

 

I have been saying what you posted for along time. Rivets attempt at Glasgow to Edinburgh was particularly poor in my eyes as they couldn't even be bothered to put the route via Falkirk Grahamston in which would have provided a bit of variety. The list is long of DLCs some of which I have bought and ran a couple of times and uninstalled.

TSW now falls into two types of DLC. That which is well put together and is thoroughly enjoyable and that which is rushed in order to get day one purchase numbers up.

 

Without addressing the merits of your points regarding the overall game- none of those things have anything to do with UE, which was the point i was trying to make- in fact, they are 100% down to decisions made by DTG for profitability reasons.

Could DTG take 3 years and build the full WCML (or whatever dream route) in TSW? Absolutely, but they would probably go bankrupt before it ever was finished!

Will TSW ever have the freeware/homebrew content that TSC has? Unclear at this point, but the 3rd-party payware releases up to this point (excluding you know who) have been highly encouraging so far imo. Yes, the bar of entry is higher for an amateur dev, but gamers' expectations have increased even moreso imo- being able to interact with the trains in first-person isn't just a "nice to have" feature at this point- it's what people expect from a modern sim title.

We have a one-man developed route coming out next week- if it's as good as it looks in previews that's proof to me that where there's a will to learn, there's a way.

Some solo devs will make the jump to TSW, and some (maybe most) won't, and that's ok too imo.

 

In my humble opinion TSW is constrained in the fact that it also needs to satisfy the platform versions (Play Station etc). Due to this fact I have shelved ALL of my TSW and am enjoying the sheer array of routes available in TSC. I have 76 TSW DLCs and currently have no desire to play any of them! Sure they have timetables, however, this is gets to become very repetitive. QD in TSC can be a good alternative to this. Some huge routes now in Austria, Germany and UK.

 

Press Release: Progress Update on the Manchester Airport Commuter Route for Train Sim World 5**

Hi Everyone,

We are excited to share some new screenshots of our upcoming Manchester Airport Commuter route for Train Sim World 5. As many of you know, we encountered a few challenges during our initial QA process, leading to some delays. However, we are thrilled to report that we have made significant progress and have expanded our team to accelerate the bug-fixing process.

While we may have been a bit quiet over the past month, please rest assured that we have been working diligently behind the scenes. Our goal at ATS has always been to bring you the highest quality routes, and this remains our unwavering commitment.

This being our first route for TSW5, we have learned an immense amount throughout this project. We want to extend a massive thank you for all the positive feedback on the previous set of screenshots. Your support has been incredibly appreciated, and we can’t wait for you all to experience the route firsthand.

Thank you for your continued support and enthusiasm. We are looking forward to sharing more updates and, ultimately, delivering a fantastic route that meets your expectations.

Best regards,
I can only do 5 pics at a time so will upload more in a following post

The ATS team@everyone

 

More screens

 

And some more

 

Last ones for now I am having to do this on mobile so if I can clean the posts more combine them when I am home cheers

 

Alan Thomson Amazing Alan! Honestly can't wait for it despite what we all said, end of the day we are open to our opinions and it looks like a stunning route and we do have a Terminating point with the Hourly Alderley edge services. Just looking on RTT and it looks really great and promising. I did ask on the Facebook TSC one but when the TfW route releases will we have Transport for Wales services?

 

The screenshots look great. It's a shame it isn't going to Crewe, but it isn't a deal breaker. Hopefully the TFW services will be drivable between Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly or Piccadilly to Wilmslow.

 

No new stock and the route being cut off at Alderley Edge is still a bummer to me but i'll wait and see

 

Can you please make the Route to Crewe?

 

The route does look pretty good, shame it’s not coming sooner

 

Looks absolutely fantastic

 

Looks awesome, some nice detailing there. Day 1 purchase for me.

 

Wonder how far out it is. Looks really good doesn't it

 

It would be outside of their budget and it would take many months to even do, maybe even another year if it's complex.

 

These screenshots are the best - the previous ones are just disgustingly made, as if hastily

 

it looking very detailed and an excellent route thumbs up from me. my only disappointment was not going to Crewe as well. That said however reading back over what's been posted i can understand why and its been a good insight as to the problems that are encountered when taking on such a project.

 

Morning none of these were done in haste mate they are a selection of screenshots taken by the beta team throughout their play sessions cheers for your feedback though much appreciated

 

Alan, thank you very much for the new screenshots! The route looks great. My anticipation has increased significantly! Because on the wave of the latest discussions, a feeling of despondency began to form! And now your post brings me back to high optimism. I am really looking forward to the release of your route!
Can you clarify two questions:
- in your project, will class 323 support the suspension function?
- if so, will it be supported on the Glossop route?

 

When could we see a release date?

 

From when I worked on the project, I added suspension to the 323 as well as the guard mode functionality and updated PIS. These should be still present when it comes to the eventual release of the route. As far as being supported on glossop there was never any plans at the time but that may change, who knows

 

My personal opinion mainly has the following two points. DTG can certainly make longer routes, but the main explanation for not making long routes is (time and cost). I think this is the most basic argument. DTG spent five years on "Train Simulator World" and produced a lot of DLC, including third-party studios. I would like to ask, with five years of production accumulation, is there no new way of development? The development five years ago has been continued to five years later. If so, it is equivalent to making the game into DLC to extend its life. Secondly, regarding the expansion of routes, there are very few routes available for expansion in the game. Is it really that difficult to expand? Or is the Unreal Engine too weak to provide better expansion for it? For the editor provided by DTG to enthusiasts, it is unimaginable. If an enthusiast wants to develop a long route in content creation, it may not be completed in ten years. DTG should update the development of the editor faster to release personal pressure.

 

I suspect the DLC length is governed by the need to make it viable for console games. My understanding is that TSW (Train Sim World) is attempting to provide a platform for a broad range of train simulator options (driving, walking, conductor, VR, console and yes TTTE). Being able to cater for such a broad range of platforms will invariably constrain certain features. If you are looking for route length (excluding East Coast USA) then TSC would be a better option.

 

Pretty sure it has been said it isn’t due to consoles

 

It has many times including a few posts above. Matt has said many times on here and on streams over the last few years, that route length isn't due to console restrictions. This has either evaded some forum members or they have chosen to disregard it.

 

I can kind of see what he's saying though.

Disclaimer: the following is not at all based on fact and is mostly guesswork as well as my own opinion, and I do not claim otherwise or that I know what I'm talking about.

When you think about it, the majority of console players are probably of the casual sort. I say this because consoles tend to be more limited and closed systems, whereas PCs don't, casual gamers don't care much about hardware specifics unless their game is literally unplayable.

The closed system limits what can be done, as does catering to a variety of playstyles.

There's only so much they're able to do, and a closed system such as that with consoles will limit that.

 

I acknowledge the caveat - but would emphasise that it would not necessarily be the case that most console players are casual players.

For example, in my case, I went for a console for three main reasons:
1. I already had one, so no need to buy new hardware
2. I'm not familiar with upgrading PC parts etc., so felt this (being one of the main features of PC over console) wasn't worth it
3. I didn't know about mods

I would class myself as a serious player, in the sense that I try and drive as close to how the trains should be driven irl, and try to route learn so I can drive hudless, or with the hud as a back up but not looking at it much.

 

This is one of the first add ons where the lighting conditions look so natural and spot on!

 

I don't have room for a PC and had a console already. So it just made sense to use that.

Like I said, it wasn't fact or anything, I tried (poorly I think) to justify the limited route lengths we seem to be getting. But I don't think it's anything to do with consoles or casual players rather it is instead about the costs involved.

 

And the cost of developers investing resources into longer routes, Vs investing in micro routes to shove out. This is not the case with ATS though as it's their first route just to clarify so I get it.

I do hope going forward feedback is received and some decent length and logical routes are created. My gripe is, if I'm getting a small route I want at least an end to end running point to make it worthwhile. I do hope for example this and North London Line get an extension, but I feel at the moment North London Line is the only one with a chance.

 

They have developed new tools and ways to develop but there is still a lot of manual labor involved, especially older routes. For example, Google Earth only shows modern day so they can't just use ai to create a route since there's no way to know what it looked like back then. Ai generation can only do so much so dtg has to spend a lot of time fixing things ai couldn't do.

So far extensions in tsw required a lot of effort and needs to cost more which didn't really go down well with the community. Sehs was completely remade and resold in tsw3. Lirr commuter required a lot of things to be remade. It's not easy to extend routes

 

It may become clearer in the next 24 hours, later tomorrow in the March Roadmap. We shall soon see.

If it’s not announced we will have to wait for the April roadmap

 

Well parts of SEHS looked suspiciously like the original. WCMLS fairly certain the overground section from Bakerloo was copied and pasted in to cover Queens Park to Harrow.

My personal view is it’s more commercial pressure within DTG or the whims of the EP that keeps us from seeing extensions. For the UK alone, several frequently appear in Suggestions -TVL to Bishop Auckland and Boulby, or round the Durham Coast, NTP to Liverpuddle or York even Scarborough. GWE (acknowledging licensing) to Oxford and or Thames Valley branches (excluding Heathrow obviously). Cathcart into a wider Glasgow Suburban network. BCC add Walsall and Coventry/Wolverhampton. The master uncooked copies of these routes all exist in a vault for patching purposes so I don’t see dusting them off and extending as being the issue. It’s DTG politics and the arrogant assumption they know what’s best.

When in fact, all of those I mentioned above would be Day One purchases for me and wouldn’t even insist on a discount for owning the original!

 

Extensions caused a lot of whinging and moaning in TSC with people seeing it as paying again for the same thing, even when a discount was offered for owners of the original. That's the main reason they won't do it in TSW, even though it is technically possible (I've done it on my own, new kml file and generated tiles etc, even left my terrain modifications alone).