Enough Is Enough Thomas And Friends Edition

And as I posted in the other thread, happy to be proved wrong but what’s the bet the “story” will just be static characters standing around like the Emily Turner scenarios on ECML. No movement, no cut scenes, no voice action just a text bubble popping up instructions. GTA SA did it better 20 years ago (“All you had to do was shoot at the train, CJ…”).

 

£19.99 there having a laugh! If l wanted this l would wait for sale. However £29.99 for TSW5, WSR and TTTE is a fair price.

I only have 110gb left on my PC so l will give this one a miss. All these bug fixes and updates keep using up my disc space!!!

 

I don’t think I would even bother in a sale to be honest. The remastered WSR is great but I hardly use it due to the obligatory 25 mph heritage line limit, which renders most journeys dull as dishwater. An opportunity missed to charm us with an Isle of Sodor route, and the accompanying multiple DLCs to add Thomas’s friends. At least that would have been a cute nostalgia trip for many.

 

For context, does the bundle include the standard edition of TSW5 with the three routes, or just the base game? If it's the former I'll change my mind on the value of the pack somewhat, but if it's the latter then nothing has changed for me.

 

When will Ivor the Engine come to TSW5?

 

I respect DTG, But it’s a no for me.

 

An Underground Ernie DLC for the Bakerloo Line would be stupid but I'd appreciate the show getting some love.

 

It seems I was right of them trying to attract the 'casual' gamers.

 

I haven't got an issue with DTG trying to attract the casual gamers. I just hope that doesn't come at the expense of all the rail fans. I just worry with the state of everything at the moment!

 

So what, I'm a casual gamer and I bet DTG love people like me.

I own almost every piece of DLC and since I'm on Xbox most were full price due to lack of sales.

It is us casual gamers that are funding this game so instead of insulting us maybe have some appreciation.

 

As soon as they decided to go to consoles that is when they decided to attract the casual gamers.

So since day one, so its no revelation.

Show me where they ever advertised it as being for the hardcore gamers only?

Since day 1 it been advertised bringing real trains, routes and physics to everyone.

If they didn't attract casual gamers the game would be dead by now. They already tapped dry the harcore train gamers with TSC.

 

I'm firmly in belief, many can laugh here, DTG are intentionally sabotaging this game to purposely attract the 'casual' players who has no standards or expectations when it comes to route quality or spotting bugs etc to come to the perfect excuse for DTG to no longer give what us players want for a DLC or a Core Feature. I guess this will mean more sub-par content with half-baked routes if those players don't care enough since the 'market' doesn't justify high quality DLC's. Sure it brings in cash, but the culture is tearing itself apart.

The CEO is the problem, a former employee of EA sports who thinks it's ok to now neglect the core market and purpose of this game and turn it into a 'bank'. No one had ever once requested this Thomas DLC, we are getting frustrated day and day from broken promises, poor accountability and not delivering the expectations we want. We care about this game, we want it to reach the full potential us enthusiasts love from high quality realistic locos, routes, routes with varies experiences etc. I can't seem to remember the last time the top executives came to the forums rather than sitting on their desk under a rock. I bet they don't know what the Class 87 even is.

The move to consoles was a strategy to reach out to certain demographics who couldn't afford or had the infastructure than a PC. Arguably at the time, TSW was going to eventually replace TSC from the superior features it had from a full real life timetable, walkthrough trains and stations etc so it made sense for them to implement this strategy.

 

How many other top executives from other companies are regular on their forums?

The whole purpose of TSW was to expand to the console market and attract casual gamers so this is not a new thing it has been policy since day 1.

And it has been successful as they have grown 3 times bigger and make more profit than they ever did from just the PC market.

I agree it is geared towards casual gamers but its no conspiracy its been that way since day 1.

And again as others and top executives have said in the past if it wasn't for console players TSW would not exist and probably would have ended up in the same bin as FSW.

Does it meet your expectations, obviously not, but the game wasn't made for just you or me it was made for a blend of every type of player under the sun.

It not your vision for the game and might not be mine either, but we don't make the game DTG does so as long as it continues to put $$ in their pockets there going to continue doing this.

But you won't see any change unless profits go down, again thats up to everyone to vote with there wallets. But this has been said many times and never really works. All it does is stop the from making that specific type of thing.

Examples: Steam traction, people complained that it was terrible and not realistic enough the call went out vote with your wallet, we did with Peak Forest.

Now we don't get Steam because it wasn't good enough and didn't sell.

US Frieght we complained it wasn't real enough, the sounds and experience. Again the calls to vote with your wallet came out.

And now no US freight anymore.

It obvious they are just making what sells.

But again it not some new revelation the writing has been on the wall since day 1, and the game is exactly where I said it was going to be heading back when TSW 2 was announced.

DTG are wanting to join the big guys and its no longer a passion project, its business. The passion projects are what the small 3rd parties produce.

Exactly what happened to TSC.

Only I've learned to accept this. As well as EA and 2K games over many years of playing these games.

 

Just a reminder, TSW2020 (and the same rings true for every TSW released since then) was advertised to be for everyone. Which means even the 100 old grandma with dementia who can do nothing for herself and is bed bound, or the newborn baby, is entitled to have a go.

TSW was never for a particular demographic, it was for all of them. All people, all ages, all interests. Why do people think otherwise?

 

DTG have stated on the Frankfurt-Fulda release stream, that one of the big problems is balancing the game inbetween these two groups. I´ve started to believe that this walk on a tightrope is the games biggest flaw.

 

The first release was Sandpatch Grade... not exactly a casual experience, I would say.

 

Then it just proves my point, makes steam

It's dangerous to go down a route based on what sells, by all means the disastrous release or WCML South and NYT brings fears to many DTG may not revisit a hybrid of high speed/stopping commuter routes, at least for a while. WCML South came second in the most played routes in TSW5, that would've easily been first if it wasn't for the mess up. If Cardiff City Network ends up as a flop, then DTG won't make network routes any longer. A repeated cycle of short term thinking rather than investing in the community will eventually hit the business unless they wake up.

This is what we're getting, our routes and quality of a DLC is getting blander and blander. Boring EMU's, boring fully electric bus routes like BCC. CCN may be their only shot they have, though their wrong lighting at Cardiff Central doesn't seem convincing. The UK offers much more than EMU's, we are still yet to have a proper North English route in the game FGS, a modern North Trans Pennine will be a good shout.

 

This is the analytics coming from the Thomas trailer.


What I’m seeing here, is a huge amount of likes for it, and that it seems to be attracting a large following from the masses.

this is exactly what DTG wanted. A new audience gaining for this game, so they can make an extra profit.

this is what I mean. No matter how much anger DTG will conjure and boil up, it seems to always work for them. No matter what. TSW3 made people mad, it worked. TSW4 made people mad, that also worked, TSW5 made people mad still, and business wise, it’s still working.

Mattel approached DTG and DTG accepted it with a glamorous smile on their face, they knew exactly what was coming to them, and that was MONEY BABY.

They definitely took the chance faster than you could click your fingers. Because at the end of the day. They are a business.


Turns out. The “grand reveal” wasn’t for longtime players at all, it was never for everyones taste, it was grand for DTGs business, and the new audience approaching the game, which in turn, also means more money for DTG. They’ve planned this right out.


DTG never cared for the anger of this community, no, it is and was never about that, it was the business opportunity they had planned out this whole time.

 

A modern Trans Penninr would be great as for bland one handle EMUs whats wrong with that.

That is exactly what I like and play. I don't like Steam, or Retro or Frieght.

So like I said it appears geared to the casual gamer like me.

The "community" is a very small percentage of the client base what we say does not affect the bottom line its what sells. You can't really go off of reviews because even those who post a negative review still purchased the game. Therefore DTG still made their money.

You have to go off of sales figures and unless DTG makes that public none of us really knows what is selling and what is not.

The same can be said said for the opposite a route could get tons of great reviews but low sales. Examples being TVL and NTP great reviews but as Sam said way back there just isn't a big interest for BR Blue evidence by those sales numbers compared to other routes. Which is why they were focusing on more modern. Back before steam was announced.

 

Again that proves the majority isn't who most seemed to think it was.

 

Just a point of order. Pretty sure Paul Jackson retired from DTG a good few years ago now.

 

Yes he did, which is why DTG are now owned by Focus.

 

I’m sure another name was mentioned in regard to a senior manager or director of the company recently leaving, as PJ is old news.

 

The slightly angry people will completely ignore that small fact, because he's the villain they want to hate......

 

Thing is, for all Jackson's a businessman and ex-EA, he is still a train enthusiast and you can tell when he went because that's about the time when everything became what's popular and historic content was binned.

 

Oh I completely agree with you, but the short sighted munchkins can only see the ex EA person and can't mentally grasp that he was a train man of the highest order, probably more so than some of the people roaming these virtual halls......

 

I've done some digging, current CEO of Dovetail (as appointed two weeks ago, apparently) is Jon Rissik, who is ex-EA but has been at Dovetail since 2012 so

 

Of course it is. They only have finite resource.

It feels like the releases are coming faster these days at the cost of quality. The last few releases are either plagued with bugs or have something missing.

Even the krok route has quality issues. They simply are not spending the time polishing these dlcs.

And I wouldn’t mind but the prices are creeping up. At present they are half a AAA game and on their way to a AA price range. That’s unacceptable. I’d rather pay 40 quid for a solid well constructed, quality route with a few pieces of rolling stock and have them release 3 a year than the average output they are doing now.

 

That’s not analytics. I wouldn’t base anything on likes.Likes do not translate into sales.

 

It’s strange because I just paid the princely sum of £4.49 to drop the Austrian inspired DLC into Snowrunner. Yes it’s only two 4 x 4 km maps but even just on a quick recee with a scout vehicle, it is all beautifully hand crafted and drawn plus enough missions to keep me going for ages. Have to say far better value than £30 or even £25 for a short route DLC like NLL or Yegods the £20 for Thomas The Cashcow.

 

No, but it shows that there is a lot out there who obviously like it, despite what the small minority on here say.

Those who like it are more likely to buy it.

 

You can't really track likes as a statistical way of saying it's well received/liked. TSW channel video has 18k views and only 982 likes. The IGN video has 36.4k views and only 1.3k likes. What about the other 52k that didn't like it? What you can say is that it's definitely getting publicity and exposure. I'd also be interested to know how much of the forums minority is actually responsible for reliable purchases of content compared to causal customers?

The only way you'll actually be able to make any educated guesses are through statistics on products bought.

 

But that proves nothing either. I love Thomas the tank and engine and it’s very nostalgic to me. However I wouldn’t touch the dlc with a barge pole. It simply doesn’t offer value or replayability . If they did the whole shebang - a modelled route like the series and extra characters that would make sense.

 

This thing is going to be flying off the proverbial shelves, despite what some hardcore users here may think. They will access a much bigger market with this thing.

 

It doesn't prove anything, no. But it's the way people work. They're likely to buy something they like. Whether they do or not doesn't matter, it's the likelihood of them doing so. It's a good enough metric to base potential sales on.

 

Remember folks you’re a consumer at the end of the day, though it appears your opinion matters, it doesn’t. DTG will do what they feel will make them money. You can scream from the top of rooftops “I don’t like that” “it doesn’t belong in my game” yarder, yarder, yarder! If you stopped playing TSW tomorrow the next 5 year old child would replace you.
So all I can say is suck it up, forget that this DLC exists if that helps and don’t buy it, it’s that simple.

I’ll be watching the preview stream carefully to see if the £19.99 price tag justifies the content, as for one loco that seems a bit much.
I do have a 3 year old son who turns 4 in June, so it would be mainly for him.
Speaking of kids, does no one in here have kids or grandkids on here? Surely that’s an incentive to buy it?

 

If I buy it, it will be for my 6 year old son. Maybe have a go myself ;-)

 

By whom? TSW is not an easily accessible game for casuals.

 

But THATS the ONLY market and even then for every person such as yourself there's a person like myself that has TSW but wouldn't spend the money on it for my kids or even if I don't have kids.

DTG are relying on folks who already have TSW installed, are also into trains and have grandkids who are into trains. Anyone else is not going to bother spending on the main game and then buying the DLC. In fact Id wager they won't even understand it's not a standalone piece of content.

Would you spend 65 quid to get a TTTE piece of DLC if you don't own or play TSW games for your kids? Its not very viable.

 

No, but if the controls are indeed simplified, it should broaden the scope of the user group considerably. But maybe that's just hypothetical. We'll see.

 

Sure, that is of course your choice. Let me say though I will only buy it soon after release if the ambassador streams look really good. Otherwise I will wait for a sale.

 

Sorry I didn't mean the controls although yeah you raise e a good point. Im talking about the ecosystem of Main core game + DLC for people who don't normally play train games.

 

Absolutely true. You still need the base game + WSR to get to Thomas and its simplified controls. So there's that.

 

That's probably where most of the problems lie.

To get access to this DLC, you'd have to purchase the base game and West Somerset route. Which, going by current prices and the Free Starter Pack having expired, is expensive for something that won't see much use.

The only way I can see it be viable, is if the TTTE DLC is included in a bundle with TSW5+WSR. Because, let's face it, how many parents are going to buy it all separate, just for their kid to play TTTE and forget about it after a while (of course, not taking into account any adults who may purchase it as well).

 

I thought they already announced there will be a bundle?

 

The obvious solution is to make expert trains with an optional simple mode. It's more work, but it appeals to everyone.

I'll dive a bit deeper, as your logic is quite flawed.

The first trailer, as part of the Season of Reveals, received 44,000 views. Not surprising considering the controversial nature of the DLC. However, only a little more than 2000 people reacted to the video. The like to dislike ratio is also not very good, with a 69% approval rating (nice).

The second trailer so far has got only 19,000 views, a drop of more than half. The view count won't go up by much more, but there is no way it's a "large following from the masses." While the like to dislike ratio is better on the second trailer, the amount of total ratings has also decreased.

This isn't the flood of new people interested in the game that you think it is.

 

My post in the first place is relating to the IGN trailer. NOT the official trailer from the TSW YouTube channel, which has 33,000 views,1,200 likes and 28 dislikes.

the like/dislike ratio on that is way better than the videos on the main TSW channel. Meaning it IS attracting more players.

 

More likes by the looks of it, more viewers? Perhaps ...

More definite buyers?
That still remains to be seen.

Any parent who knows how telemarketing aimed at toddlers and school age children works, knows the first 'free' release is only an appetizer.

The main expense comes in the follow up purchases, new levels, new features, new Thomas's friends, another part of the Island of Sodor, another adventure for TTTE to complete and in the end it could add well up above 100 or even 200, not counting the second console and subscription needed to keep both the younguns and older siblings/dad/(mum?) happy ...

And knowing DTG and the toy market in general, it is mostly play until completion, get your appetite whetted for more of the same and off to the next purchase, rinse and repeat until the child gets bored with it. And hear those DTG, FE and Mattel cash registers ring ....

Whether any of the proceeding will be funnelled back into TSW proper remains to be seen. And since I am not interested in TTTE at all, this is the main interest in this sub-franchise's succes for me.

 

You did not mention it being the IGN trailer in your post, which you should have.


The first trailer from January has roughly the same amount of views as the others, but with the lowest amount of engagement of the four. The latest trailer has a good like to dislike ratio, but again the engagement isn't as good as the first trailer on DTG's channel.

Of course, views and likes don't count towards sales. I've watched trailers for plenty of things I've never bought. The evidence of a great flood of people buying TSW, foaming at the mouths to drive Thomas, is flaky at best.