Frankfurt S-bahn Discussion

Ok, maybe the 423 will also include RMV branding then. The screenshots are all from a dev build, and they're probably just putting the FTF 423 there for the screenshots.

I think it was also a choice not to release the 420 for MAG, as it was originally planned, as MAG is a pretty old route by now. It would've required a Remaster as it was done with Cathcart.

 

The textures want be flickering and blurry again on Everything Like The Trains or Landscape, it’s a core issue and Bad Programming on all Console Plattforms

 

not sure if DTG will do it just because TSG does it, though. but we'll see.

 

The RMV License is since TSW 5 available on the Fahrkartenautomaten and Timetables on the Stations

 

I don't understand why the route has to end in Frankfurt when it could have been extended with route hopping. It's always so close to being really great, and then they just stop right before the finish line. Once again, it's a missed opportunity.

 

The question is: Where would you have cut the route then? The reason the line ends in Frankfurt Hbf is, so they can avoice modelling the City Tunnel, which is understandable. The next good station for doing a route hop would be Offenbach Ost, which would add another ~13km of track.

 

In my opinion, they could have left out the S1 section and instead created a consistently meaningful and authentic route. The S1 section could have been offered as an additional add-on. I just don’t understand why this route, like so many others, was once again built without a logical endpoint,. Especially since the above-ground part after Offenbach is already fully developed in Frankfurt-Fulda, and only the tunnels are missing.

 

Where did you get that from? The above-ground part isn't finished at all, the tracks are still missing their overhead wires, and I doubt that things like Wiesbaden Hbf are currently in such a good state as the areas of the screenshots were.

 

Kinzigtalbahn was much more interesting. Because it has much more variety. Here you have S-Bahn and Regionalverkehr playable services only. No Intercity, ICE or freigt. And that where we have already so much of that kind of german commuter routes. Disappointing.

 

I'm not talking about the new route, but about the connection to the existing Frankfurt–Fulda route via route hopping. They could have used the already completed route from Frankfurt-Fulda after Offenbach-Ost if, instead of the S1 branch, the tunnel section to Offenbach Ost had been built.

 

No long distance trains, fair. But if you just a look at Rüsselsheim or Frankfurt Höchst on OpenStreetMap, you can see there are definitely going to be freight trains.

 

Dose this route add on to Frankfurt Fulda route

 

No, it's a standalone DLC. Or course you can jump between the routes, i expect.

 

On the topic of cab rider, this channel has more modern videos that show the new flyover and Gateway Gardens station that we won't be getting. Just to give a nice comparison.

 

Maybe the S6 will come as a line extension at some point. I mean, it's been under construction and would at least make sense.

 

What does the S6 have to do with this route or FTF? The S6 runs from Friedberg to Darmstadt in a north-south direction. The only two stations that this line shares with FTF and Frankfurt S-Bahn are Frankfurt Hbf and Frankfurt Süd. Not really an extension if it was built; it's rather a completely separate route.

 

Yeah sure but with an extension you could create a network and its 4 stations

 

Yes, but that's the issue why they didn't extend it to Offenbach Ost. The tunnels. Doesn't matter how many over-ground parts are already done, it still would require both, the city tunnel Frankfurt and city tunnel Offenbach including all of their stations, to be implemented. Tunnels are a challenge to do because of lightbaking and other construction issues, so no developer wants to create them as they take a lot of additional work compared to overground lines.

I think Matt said that they had so many problems creating Bakerloo and Rapid Transit, that they never wanted to touch tunnel sections with stations again.

Having this in mind, I am surprised that we will get at least the airport tunnel with Frankfurt Flughafen Regionalbahnhof with the route, which I think marks the first german subterrain S-Bahn station after Rapid Transit (excluding Frankfurt Tief which had to be built for this route to make sense).

 

That the tunnels in Unreal can't be built very well is obviously annoying. Still, I would have considered it the better choice. But anyway, it doesn’t change the fact that this is how it’s going to be, and once again, I’m disappointed with the outcome.

 

Ther are ICEs. A lot of times per day the Airport long Distance Station is crowded or there are maintenance on the tracks and ICE 1 and T (Hamburg-Dortmund-Nürnberg-Wien, Wiesbaden-Dresden)are using the regional Station

 

Yeah, but that's not a planned stop. They are diverted to the regional station. Normally, there are no ICEs at the regional station, and that's what is represented in TSW, not the exceptions made on a particular day due to unforeseen circumstances.

 

Bit of a shame half of the line is cut off… I’ll still be getting this though. I love routes like this.

 

Hmm...On London to Brighton we also have diverted Southeastern Trains between East Croydon and Redhill and diverted GWR HSTs to Waterloo and on Edinburgh to Glasgow we have diverted Azumas to Aberdeen. I think they shout add the ICEs just for more variety on the route.

 

Well, don't really see the point...actually, we get the northern line (S1 via FF-Höchst) we get get the southern line, (S8 via FF-Flughafen), and we get the S9, which goes on the northern, the 'connector-line' and the southern line...well, most people ask for variety, and well, at least, we get 3 different 'pathes' between the same endpoints, so somehow a kind of network. We get three different trains from three different 'generations' of trains (420 (1970s),423 (1990s) and 430 (2010s)), so again, variety. Would it have been better to build only one of the lines, but from end to end with only one loco? Nah, I don't think so, and I would think, by remembering past discussions, that most people do feel like me.

And, I would say, building this network from one main station to another main station (Frankfurt to Wiesbaden) isn't a 'logical endpoint', I guess, at least internationally, it's a better selling point then trying to build one line in whole, and maybe by running out of budget and time, we would probably only get 'Ledermuseum' to 'Gustavsburg'. I tend to believe, announcing worldwide Frankfurt to Wiesbaden in a network style, somehow sounds more appreciated...

 

T

Exactly that's the problem. In the article DTG wrote, that there is freight and Highspeed trains as AI only: "AI-only traffic such as ICE and freight will suitably layer in across the route."

 

However, currently there aren't enough of the right freight wagons to service those areas. Rüsselsheim, for the car factory would require the Hbbins-tt 309
https://gueterwagenkatalog.dbcargo....ty-sliding-wall-wagons/Hbbins-tt-309-9120622#
and Höchst is a chemical works and there were quite a variety of wagons there when I lived in Nied.

 

The Hbbins-tt 309 would be correct for transporting automotive parts; it is otherwise a rather rare freight car, and I think there are better choices for being represented in TSW.

A powder car would be a good choice for a new type of freight car. But the type you're showing here is quite old. Of course, there are still units of this type in service, but they're mostly replaced by more modern rolling stock, which looks quite different:

These tank cars are also really old, and I haven't found any evidence that they are still in service. Every tank car in service with VTG, at least to my knowledge, has four axles. And we've already got the Zacns in the game:

 

We've got the Habbiins and Kijls, both perfectly appropriate for automotive parts.

Small two-axle tank cars are still around - the rule of thumb is, the smaller the tank car is, the worse the stuff they're transporting is. For example, there's a facility that makes hydrofluoric acid near Dresden, and that stuff is transported in small two-axle tankers. So I agree the Zacns we have isn't really right for this... but the small tankers are really niche vehicles, so I don't expect them to make it into TSW, and I still would like the gameplay, so I'd take the Zacns tbh.

 

We actually have Uacns in the game as well, just not many people have it, as it's part of RSN 363 addon and we got plenty of free 363s since.

 

I am cautiously excited myself, and I say that as primarily freight driver who will not get a lot of content there (if any). It feels like something different, and that's what we have been asking for, for a long time. Last routes of this type were RRO and HRR, both dating to beginnings of TSW.

It's a popular location, comes with some interesting and unique operations (high-capacity blocks in Kastel, H/v signalling's attempt at four-aspect autoblock), offers route variety and importantly comes with fully new stock. While route quality has been recently questionable, vehicles made a big leap from TSW4 onwards and both "very new" and "very old" EMUs promise a rich new soundset, different from the boring buzz of vehicles built around 2000 that made most of TSW previously.

 

Such a shame about the route stopping at Frankfurt Bahnhof. Kind of hate when this happens as you’re not getting the full experience. I just watched a Cab Ride of this route and the underground stations are very beautiful. Very clean looking compared to some underground stations like Glasgow. Underground routes are some of my favourite also… Would have been so awesome to see them in TSW. DB 420 is going to be fun atleast. Love the sounds too.

This would have been one of my favourite routes had it went all the way…. Bit disappointing but yeah at the same time I understand DTG have challenges doing tunnel stations… it is what it is I suppose..

 

Matt just confirmed on the Roadmap stream that the screenshots show the FTF 423 and not the new version.

 

For some reason I haven't been into the German routes on TSW, not sure why. I was into them on TSC. However, this one peaks my interest, becuase I lived in Frankfurt (Eschborn) for three years as a child in the early 80's.

 

Just a couple of questions I've been wondering:

- Firstly, the roadmap article states the 420 will have its own timetable swapping out the 430. So I assume the 423 will still complement the 420? I'm not sure about anyone else, but would anyone prefer to have one timetable that features all three i.e. the 420, 423 and 430 together? I know maybe not so realistic, but I'd like to be able to complete services from just one main timetable and I much enjoy added variety.

- Secondly, the roadmap says about the 143 (what about the 114?) adding regional services from Wiesbaden. What stations along the route are such expected to serve as per reality (well in the past).

 

RB75 - Wiesbaden Hbf - Aschaffenburg (but over Mainz Hbf and up to Mainz-Römisches Theater - Edit: up to Bischhofsheim thanks zero909- in the addon)

Edit: No this won't be included bcecause its driven by VIAS Stadler Flirt
RB10 - Frankfurt Hbf - Neuwied (will be drivable from Wiesbaden Hbf over Mainz-Kastel up to Frankfurt-Höchst).

For the latter, it actually could have ended in Frankfurt Hbf (Hoch), but unfortunately given by the map it seems that Frankfurt Hbf (Hoch) is not included, only Frankfurt Hbf (Tief).

With the inclusion of Frankfurt Hbf (Hoch), DTG also could have brought the Main-Lahn-Bahn services of RE20/RB22 from Frankfurt Hbf to Limburg (Lahn) up to Frankfurt-Höchst (1 stop/ 10 minute services) into the DLC, which would have been quite cool. Sadly, these will only be visible as AI now as it seems.

 

I'm sure it'll be in the route. In the roadmap article, they specifically call out S7, which terminates at Hbf rather than Hbf (tief), as playable. Plus, surely they copied Frankfurt Hbf over from Frankfurt - Fulda and added the low-level platforms. If so, making it inaccessible would be a lot of extra work just to make the route worse for no reason.

Sure, the map has it labled specifically as "Frankfurt Hbf (tief)", but that doesn't mean anything. The marketing team get map labels wrong all the time. On the Frankfurt - Fulda map Wächtersbach" is labeled "Wächtersbach Kleinbahnhof", which is the station of the heritage narrow-gauge railway next to the actual Wächtersbach station...

 

The 430 replaced the 420, that's why there is a new timetable that separates the two vehicles. There was a small overlap when they did change the rolling stock on the individual lines back in 2014, but we are talking about a few weeks and not a long period that defined the network for some time.

There were 143s in service there in the past, but I don't know if this is accurate for the route. As we've already defined the possible timeframe to be between 2016 and 2019, I think the 143s were already replaced by EMUs at that point. Maybe we'll finally get a Stadler Flirt or Alston Coradia in the future...

 

I think Frankfurt Hbf hoch will be included. As the tunnel begins very near to the above-ground station, you would need to include it for scenery anyway and with only the underground station, you wouldn't be able to include the RE services correctly. They've just written Frankfurt Hbf tief on the map, so it is clear that the underground station is included.

 

Even a bit further, you can go to Bischofsheim realistically in the add-on, then the RB75 heads towards Darmstadt.

 

If they will implement Frankfurt Hbf (Hoch), why do they mention it as "DB BR 143 and Dosto combination, which runs RB services out of Wiesbaden"?

But yeah, the map is also wrong here. Mistakes found, it should be "Frankfurt-Höchst Farbwerke" not "Frankfurt-Farbwerke", "Gustavsburg" should be "Mainz-Gustavsburg", "Hochheim" should be "Hochheim (Main)" and its not "Flösheim" rather than "Flörsheim". Nit-picky but true.

 

As regards the tunnel sections, sadly another example of DTG offering problems not solutions. They need to sort out how to do light baking for underground sections with stations otherwise this just about rules out any subway, tube or sub surface main line with below ground stations ever appearing in the game.

 

100% Yep and the last part of your post is exactly what appeared in my mind. Would be a real shame.

 

They know how to do light-baking (otherwise we wouldn't have Rapid Transit or Bakerloo), but it is apparently more work necessary to do tunnels and especially stations in tunnels than doing overground lines, that's why every dev wants to avoid them and instead we'll get more overground mileage.

If 2 km tunnel and 6 underground stations require the same amount of work as 18 km overground line and 10 stations, then what would you do as a developer?

Given the fact that people always scream for longer routes and that driving underground might not be something the majority (or at least a good chunk) of the playerbase is not interested in (we had this thread asking the question not long time ago), it seems more viable to invest ressources in building longer routes instead of underground ones.

And yes, suggestions which feature underground sections likely will be tested whether they could work without them and pure underground suggestions are likely not going to get looked at for more than 2 seconds, if there isn't any other LAMPOIL-proven reason as why it should be done nontheless (f.e. the subway system of a huge metropole like London or New York City) where DTG clearly knows from the start that the costs and hurdles to build it will likely be evened out by the revenue brought in.

With gaining that knowledge, my mind completely changed to that I see a remaster/extension of Rapid Transit as very unlikely to happen in the future.

I would also like to have more underground sections in the game and miss them in it, however if it means we get more mileage instead, I rather would have more overground mileage than underground sections.

 

I would recommend DTG to delay the console version until the texture bug is fixed. A promise that DTG will fix the texture bug someday is no longer enough. The customer wants proof that the DLC works as advertised.

 

For that reasons there are not only DTG-hosted previews, but also other youtubers play it on console and PC both before and after the release. So before you buy anything, you have a lot of options to see how the DLC looks like

 

So I don't understand why everyone is surprised by the technical condition of the London Overground Mildline DLC on consoles when they knew about it. Why did they buy it in this technical condition?

 

My suspicion is that it's a memory leak so deep in the core code that it's almost impossible to identify, let alone fix. At least for me, on Series X, the issue doesn't appear until i've played 20-30 min, and if i save and reload, it fixes the issue immediately, which suggests dumping the RAM is the solution, so a memory leak is the most likely culprit.

It does occur on PC btw, happens on my laptop on occasions on Frankfurt-Fulda, but i only have 16GB RAM . Most PC players just have a bigger memory overhead, and I think consoles are 12GB (maybe PS5Pro is more?), so it hits them sooner and harder than everyone else.

 

I also believe this is a bug in the core of the program. The PS5 pro has 16 GB of GDDR6 RAM. Yet it has the same problem with textures.

 

A small preview of the 2014 Timetable

 

So confusion about Frankfurt Hbf (Hoch) has been solved.

Somebody on RailSim pointed out to me that the 10 minute service of RE20/RB22 Frankfurt Hbf (Hoch) - Frankfurt-Höchst will not be available because it takes the northern branch over Mainzer Landstraße and not the S-Bahn branch over Griesheim, which will be replicated in the DLC. So this is the reason why this RB service will not be in the DLC.

The RB10 (Wiesbaden-Frankfurt) eliminates itself because its not a BR 143 with Dostos back in 2014, and just were a Stadler Flirt by VIAS as nowadays and is very unlikely to come with the DLC.

As I found out this wording actually is correct and depicts the one and only service of RB75 which will be playable from Wiesbaden Hbf to Mainz-Bischofsheim and not will reach Frankfurt Hbf.

Sorry for the confusion everyone. So the Frankfurt Hbf (Hoch) is likely to be in, yes.