So, Confirmation that Rivet have had a hand in this. I wonder if it's the stations, as they did a good job on them usually.
Haven't watched the stream, but do appreciate Matt being upfront on this. It is relevant important information for purchasing decisions. Not one for me I think for a variety of reasons, mostly being the core issues. Any mention of progress on these?
Haha the forum sleuths were right all along of course. Hopefully DTG at least did the timetable themselves, that might just about save it if it's good. Edit: any timetable clues from the stream?
Caravatt , seen your message for a minute there. Your far too accurate lol. Will be making liveries. Don't you worry. Or hopefully someone else can and I'll just work on scenarios. I ain't that talented with livery designer lol.
Awkward silence prior to them both answering whether Rivet were involved or not. They diplomatically answered the same question earlier in the stream by saying ‘multiple third parties’ were involved….
Just as diplomatic as their texture issue answer. “it’s not any worse than other routes” - some routes are terrible, that is not a good outlook at all. “set up the same as all the other routes, that in itself is good” - again, no it’s not good, the other routes have awful texture issues that ruin the experience.
The main concourse is missing and blocked off by a non-existent door. The main concourse that is used to access platform 0. The only time you’d have used 0 is if you done ECS from canton, but still….
Not sure when the stream is ending but I thought I’d just give my thoughts now. Scenery is fine at best -There needs to be more foliage and clutter -Not sure what happened on the left but it looks bad (it looks like Fife Circle) -You seriously have to teleport to the opposite platform? What a shame -Stations are very nice and detailed -150 is better than the first attempt but according to others still not perfect -153 is quite nice, probably the best thing about the route -The timetable seems quite busy too Overall it’s decent, you can see where Rivet have fleet there mark but if you don’t look too hard it’s fine
Overall, the route is quite good: - Close-by scenary good, mid-distance decent, distant one horrible (Rivet tradition...). - Stations and objects are very nice, even if some buildings are... Meh... - Lack of grass and details at some places, like under Cardiff Central bridge and others. - 150: decent, with usual horrible sounds (remixed?). Physics improved (at least!). - 153: very good, with correct sounds and physics. A bit too "clean" on its interiors. Clearly DTG work here (model). - Many layers included, like HST, 166, Flying Scotsman, Diesel Legends of GWR etc (AI Only). Final impression: 6.5/10. Everything can definitely be improved! EDIT- Having brought it good weather only on stream... Makes me fear that they didn't show us the route with snow, rain, clouds, due to performance issues...
HSTs never went to canton as far as I recall. There’s sidings just west of Central that they turned around at…. Cardiff central needs work. It’s lazy how they didn’t model any way to get to platform 0 without crossing the tracks. But then, the fact you have to teleport to a different platform speaks volumes. solid 4/10 for me. Needs serious improvement….
So far after watching the stream here's a few thoughts! Route: Its not my local but overall seems alright. Typical building standard from DTG & 'the' other parties Scenery seems alright, nothing out of the park - possibly some better lineside detail - though the core lighting doesn't help with that. Service wise, it seems plentiful however very confused by the way they're utilising Canton Depot (which is TfW operated): GWR services seem to stable/shunt from Canton TMD & the Pullman Rail Depot, instead of Brickyard Sidings, which killed some realism whilst on stream! Class 66's with wagons also stabled the depot for some reason! Shame about the lack of GWR 16x stock as AI, only HSTs. Shame to see use of old 'halogen' style route indicator boxes (theatres) on signals that would have LED versions - seems a bit lazy! (and that's across most recent routes too!) And talking of signals, most seem to be half miss-mashed together to try to resemble the signals on the route. CF2235 is particularly half done and that’s also excluding all the relevant signage plastered around it & fences! No OHLE in Canton Depot (unless its pre-depot electrification) Pretty certain i saw the horrible 'Close Doors on Red' to initiate a signal change at Cardiff, really hope that was just my eyes, as its real immersion breaking! Long distance track shadows that where branded as a 'feature' (for some reason!) for TSW5 seem to be not implemented. Lack of stop boards at some or most stations it seems! The gantry placement here with the signals doesn't seem right either! Class 150: FYI - Im very lucky to work on these pretty much every day (albeit for GWR) so my opinions can only be based on that! Seems to be the original WCL model with a few tweaks, so original issues get ported over! Reverser goes the wrong way! Shoddy sound set, despite "mixing tweaks" (big shame to see there's no real effort/commitment to improve this!) Lack of driver-guard communication (buzzer) when dispatch complete! Regardless whether other trains dont have it implemented 100%, it would be far better having it rather than not, especially for a key for a stop-start guard operated route! Physics seem to be 'okay', but can't 100% tell from the stream. Appears to be some tread brake simulation though, at lower speeds. Crew door behind an Active Cab (keyed in cab) is locked out IRL (not a big issue but throught id point it out). Saloon & cab ambient lighting questionable (as with most units/locos), seems far too bright with no shadow - core issue it seems! GSM-R turning off half way through journey (core bug it seems). Not certain if the guards door operation has been implemented properly (not that it was shown off well!) Basically a really poor representation of what could of been a solid unit - disappointed! (Happy to provide support where needed too) Class 153: This is really the saving grace for the route - im not far too familiar with it (traction wise) but so far seems far better than the 150! Sounds are good, bar some of the higher speed running sounds (again its not my local traction so cant comment 100% - far better than the 150 mind!) Physics seem to be again good, but cant tell 100% from stream. Saloon & cab ambient lighting questionable (as with most units/locos), seems far too bright with lack of shadow. Again lack of guards buzzer after dispatch complete - real disappointment as mentioned above! GSM-R turning off half way through journey (core bug it seems) AI 153's seem to be showing no markers? Reverser goes the correct way, but also can be spun infinitely round it seems?! Door buttons illuminated despite being shut (probs same on 150) Animated additions are nice below the solebar, however rather that effort/time was put into other areas of the route (150 *wink*) Side Note: Please can Matt & Jamie look at their mic audio for next time too! Mic audio peaking far too much making it very hard to understand and detracting from the whole 'professional' stream. Oh and that coupling 'demonstration' was very hard to watch generally with the amount of hiccups encountered! Its supposed to be a showcase & i feel that streams are becoming more of a play-about more that showing off a product to the best of their ability. Are these DLCs wanting to form part of this "next level train simulation" experience?
The main thing that irks me watching this is that some of the scenery is done really well and there's some really nice clutter in areas and in other places it's a like people haven't quite bothered? I thought the area around Cardiff and the depot was a bit too clean and I thought they could've scattered a little more foliage and clutter around. Although idk if this would've hit performance? The one that really stood out to me was Whitchurch though. The hedge on the platform looked like a call back to some copy pasted textures from a route previously. I just thought some of it looked really good like some of the little branch line areas but then some bits the trackside was very bare and just needed a little more TLC.
Atleast the class 153 isn’t equally bad, otherwise I’d think of this as a bad sign for future releases.
I'm a little 50/50 honestly. I don't think the route is awful by any stretch and the units seem good to my eye at least a definite improvement on Rivets 150 IMO. But there are just bits where you can tell it's sort been like a "That'll do" particularly on the line side detailing. Which is frustrating because in some places it's been done really nicely.
All I can say is, from what I have seen I feel my predictions seem to have been well founded... The ground scenery is incredibly sparse in places, definitely a 'very average' looking route for the newest title in the series. It is pointless going round in circles and repeating myself, but all I can say is I stand by previous statements and feel my predictions were pretty spot on. It does make me laugh how DTG in one sentence will say "give us an articulate comment on the forum of the issues so we can fix them", and people take time to do so. But when it comes to them being asked a simple question around developers input we get a vague and dismissive answer! Yeah, politely not for me. And just to add, before DTG jump to conclusions and consider writing off future network routes, I'm not buying it because I'm not interested in Network Routes (I'm completely into Network Routes), I'm not buying it because it does not live upto the standard of the latest title of TSW. The only compliment I will give is for the Class 153, which does seem to be an exception to the rest of the route and very well built. Much like how the 390 is to WCMLS. Any confirmation of a 1:1 timetable out of interest?
Not watched the stream but given the 150 and 153 use the same Cummins engine and Voith transmission, why the fudge didn’t they alias the sounds over from the 153 instead of using the old 150 sound set slightly modified. Surely it didn’t take a genius to figure that one out. Well I think this will be one for a deep sale and more than a little perturbing that there seems to be ongoing indifference as to the core issues.
I’ve not seen the full stream. Only the bit in the sub way and what’s been posted here. I really am worried when even the main station has been so lazily built, especially when you consider previous concerns with the lighting. it’s like there’s been no care, or effort put in to it. I’ll watch the stream fully tomorrow and make a full conclusion. But right now it’s a solid 4. Sale pick up. Not worth £30. Not by a long stretch, not in its current state.
5/10. I’ll wait for a sale. Usual hyperbole from Matt re beta testers hard work blah blah….guaranteed there’ll be issues the paying punters will find on day 1!
IMHO some of the sounds of the 153 could of been used on the 150/2 to make it sorta better like vern said the engine sounds is one
Im with you on that one but i dont see it being in a sale I've noticed its always the same routes in the sale but I'm on xbox
Timetable looks ok? I think this will be enjoyable for a burger eating American like me who doesn’t know what a 153 or 150 sounds like anyway. Heck, I thought Wales was where there were a lot of whales. Just kidding, but yea, this is probably one of those routes where the less you know about the real one, the better. That qualifies for a lot of routes tbh…
Steam has multiple sales a year. New routes tend to wait about two sales before going on sale themselves.
After watching the stream, I can say the route is not bad. There are some issues with the 153 and 150/2 that do bother me though. the first issue, which is sound related, is that the Notch 3 revs in both the 153 and 150/2 do drop too low, look at SHG class 158, resting revs should be higher in the sprinters. All the other notches sound fine to me, just the notch 3 revs dropping too low and maybe notch 3 revs revving high a bit too fast. the 153 sounds apart from the notch 3 issue do sound lovely, that turbo/transmission whine was lovely to hear. the last issue I noticed was that the 150/2 does not have a simulated spinning Driveshaft underneath in the engine although I am sure it was mentioned in the Patch notes thing. The 153 does have it simulated which is a nice detail considering it’s cool to see the actual engine working. The class 101 for example has a spinning driveshaft as well which is lovely. apart from that, I can’t complain too much. I’m someone who likes physics, sounds and simulation so so far, I’m happy. Just some of the sounds that could do with more tweaking!
Did they fix it? In the screenshots it was sterile and white. I did question them in the roadmap stream and Matt said he’d ask the team, but it wouldn’t be day one…
I think I agree honestly. It's weird because some of the scenery looks really nice to my eye and there's clutter and foliage. But some bits are just not there. I'll throw this in again but I can't believe the hedge and just Whitchurch in general. It terms of layers, timetable and traffic etc it looked really promising. It's a shame the scenery has taken a bit of a step backwards or this could be such a good route!
Exactly! As I said above they could have pretty much copied and pasted the new physics and sounds from the 153 to 150 in Simugraph with slight adjustments for vehicle mass to give a much more satisfactory result.
DTG: " 150 sounds have been improved." DTG on stream: "Yeah it's still the same sounds, just mixed up." Also if you have to hesitate before confirming Rivet are involved, surely that says something about Rivet. It's nice to see other third party members involved though including Just Trains. Also, while XC aren't on the game, it would have been nice to see their Cardiff-Nottingham services added with AI stock, even if it was just the ScotRail 170. Also, while it's been a few years since I visited Cardiff Central my memory of it was trains were everywhere, this hasn't been replicated so yet again, another major station is too quiet. So from this stream, I've seen worse but I've seen better. Oh and lack of Guard Buzzer is a disappointment.
Besides everything said here, it´s also still much too short and should have been a bigger network to begin with.
