Because DTG have abandoned steam. Yes, there should be a 9F, and a Black 5, and a BR 052, and a Mikado, but they all are might-have-beens.
Thomas isn't really "steam," it's a fairground ride. The Scotsman amounts to a facelifted SoS Jubilee, and represents the last remanant of DTG's former steam plans.
I have (perhaps misguided) faith that DTG will do the right thing and develop steam again. I just hope they are or have had a serious discussion about doing it and haven’t completely abandoned it for good. I understand the physics aspect is a challenge but I am sure there’s some clever people there who can get their heads down and make it work. personally I am happy with what we’ve got and I would buy any steam loco made to the current standard. So again DTG, please make more steam locos for us please!!!
By your own logic I guess we should start getting worked up because there is no Deltics, 25's 26's 27's even 28 bo-co's. Then we can't forget the 14's and class 17's, plus the thousands of steam classes in the UK and from all other countries represented in game as well as their multitude of diesel and electric traction types.......
If cost of development > expected revenue then development sadly won't continue. Ultimately its a business decision. Its a tiny game compared to many others and anything unprofitable simply isn't viable.
I think the best option for steam is if a dedicated third party developed it and gave it the time and effort to make it work... The problem is DTG like things that can fit into a set development time and sell quick... They seem to have given up on BR content because the content didn't sell aswell in the short term as anticipated, and whilst the game was in it infancy with less amount of players. But I believe with a greater player audience and with JT establishing that the BR era could work by attracting the games 'retro focused player' demographic, that DTG can see it is entirely possible to make niche areas such as steam or the BR era work... Possibly as a slow burner to begin with, but huge potential in the long run as JT have clearly demonstrated. I've noticed some converts for the retro content with WCMLOS, in the sense that they were strictly 'modern focused' but with the right advertisement, and immersion it can be popular not only with hardcore enthusiasts like myself who love these eras, but also introduce a younger generation if it is done right. Steam has massive potential if it has time dedicated to it. I believe the same can be done with steam, but DTG need to understand Steam could be hugely successful, but it is unique, and needs some time to establish a player base. DTG seem to just be impatient and if it doesn't sell straight away then it's a write off in their eyes... Steam is a niche market, and if DTG or any other developer recognise that and focus some real effort into steam, they could really be market leaders and have real edge within that niche... But long term thinking, commitment, and development would need to be part the plan to make it a success. If someone realises it's potential they can really steal the steam market in TSW. Steam locomotives are fantastic editions to the game and provide a challenge most other locomotives do not and are probably the most immersive and interactive locomotives in the game. I have every bit of faith Steam could be a success. JT made the BR era work, DTG was to impatient and wrote it off to its own detriment. The same applies to steam, someone CAN make it successful with the right time and effort...
Unfortunately the Flying Money pit was probably developed as just that. It seemed to have the same broken physics and infinite boiler pressure as the 4F. The Jubilee and 8F are much better. Thomas is a steam engine tbf and doesn't suffer from the infuriating safety valves blowing constantly but I think there's where it ends. It's really another stop and go even more simple than an EMU. Which isn't a suprise and TTTE needed to be accessible.
I would really love Victory Works to be able to work on some steam content for TSW. JT have also ruled it out stating "Steam is Borked in TSW". Hopefully someone can step in and fix this mess.
AIUI. Simugraph as it is just can't model steam, which is why DTG ultimately threw up their hands. For a 3rd party to make it work they would have to amend Simugraph- but that's part of the core, a no-go zone for 3rd parties.
If the 9f was created either by DTG, there's not many routes it could work on as it's banned from the Mainline, so WSR and routes set in the past would be the only options. After all, people want a realistic train sim for serious gamers.
If there's a will there's a way. I am sure there will be devs in the team who want to take it on and make it work if allowed. I am a web dev and there's nothing more satisfying in the job than tackling something really challenging and making it work.
And just another point to add... On a lot of the new routes they are including railtour services with the existing steam locos. If DTG were really that against steam or embarrassed they wouldn't do that surely!?
Well apart from the OP should have been put in Suggestions, have to concur - there seems zero chance of DTG relenting and returning to steam. As stated, hindsight seems to have shown Simugraph simply isn't up to the task. And if we did get a 9F, then it needs a proper classic route to run on - three that come to mind are the Somerset and Dorset, Great Central from Annesley to Woodford Halse, or something like Consett iron ore traffic in Co. Durham.
"isn't up to the task". Well make it up to the task, it's theirs! If they haven't currently got the dev talent to do it then hire the talent that will be out there!
We all want that but sadly the man running the show, inverting the famous Del Monte saying - he say, "No."
DTG have really handled steam badly, not only halting future development but leaving the existing locos in game in a poor way and with promises being left to rot away. Oh and if we are doing preferences mine would be the Britannias!
If we're doing preferences as well I want a Bulleid Pacific like Clan Line! Seeing her erupting out of the darkness with that Bulleid whistle at 60mph at my local station one evening was such an amazing experience Edit: If you want to see my POV
I would like the LMS Coronation Class, beautifull locos. Such a shame that DTG stopped development of steam at such an unfinished state, so that not even a 3rd Party can step in. They need to bring steam simulation in TSW to a state, where 3rd Partys could give it a try, without having to change something in the core of the game.
Just saying that there is an alternative... A bit expensive with 3rd party but they are very well made.
apart from TSC being much more complex than TSW. It is really worth the try thanks for the amount of traction we have in there.
There’s also a lot of chaff in TSC which you need to winnow to get through to the good stuff. Ironically, for all I have a love/hate with TSW, I uninstalled TSC a few weeks back to triage my content which was getting on for 600Gb with a selective reinstall, then never got round to putting it back on. The first time you load a run in TSC and realise you can’t open the door or window to let a bit more sound in, your jolly new route comes with five scenarios and the AP/XP set up so you lose 1000 points for being two minutes late, pushes you back to the dark side.
If you can run TSC there are two 9F's, the most recent is the Victory Works one which will be very good quality. It is on my shopping list alongside a couple of dozen other steam engines. You can drive it over many period routes, Beattock, Shap, the ECML, Somerset and Dorset, various parts of the Western region, and other lines and many preserved railways. The steam decision is one of the main reasons I have now largely abandoned TSW save for a few routes. I would have likely abandoned TSC if DTG and/or third parties had developed steam into something fulfilling. Sadly this important part of railway history seems like a token gesture in TSW
You can open windows with much of the stock. Particularly more recent stock. Personally I don't bother with the points and have been setting up my own custom quick drives which don't take that long. If TSW had even a quarter of the variety we have in TSC I wouldn't touch TSC again, but TSW just isn't fulfilling for me as it is. It is a better sim no doubt with it's timetable mode and the ability to walk round. However, no steam, short routes and the plethora of modern EMU routes is getting boring and samey. It's only the likes of JT, TSG and the odd DTG route which is keeping it installed.
Steam could return but it will most likely be a 3rd party just leaving steam with just northern locos (not including Thomas) isn't the best way, no southern or GWR steam or pre grouping.
So far as we know, third parties have declared no interest in doing steam unless DTG improve the core.
There must be 3rd party devs who make steam locos for TSC who would love to see their creations in TSW.
My suggestion if a third party was to get involved would be for them to take an existing locomotive in the game and modify it and improve its physics and realism as a test bed before moving onto further developments... JTs WCMLOS would be a belta for railtours with improved steam physics...
though i am not gonna lie. I do wish steam can make a come back somehow. Even though its highly unlikely that it will comeback... Idk... tsw 6 or tsw7 to be improved core for steam? heck make steams that are mainline certified or something
I don’t think it’s highly unlikely if DTG have the will to do it. I would like to think their company culture is to aim to be the best in train sim field, break barriers and overcome challenges like this rather than giving up and pretending that steam enthusiasts don’t exist.
Yes but, for example, Victory Works have stated that while the steam core of TSW remains so poor, it is not worthy of any attempt at doing their own content. Third parties cannot rewrite the source code or how Simugraph does steam physics and sounds, only DTG can do that.
I don't think it's very likely we'll see steam engines in TSW, as has already been stated, the simugraph engine doesn't handle steam very well, and DTG have judged that it's not worth the investment in trying to fix that, and since the likes of JT or Victory Works can't access that to change it then that is how it's going to stay, except maybe in the event DTG decides to move on to a new engine and lets the old engine go open source. But I don't think DTG is going to be developing a brand new engine soon because that's a big investment of time and money, and I get the impression that this is a key factor in decision making at DTG at the moment since PullUp Entertainment did not have a particularly good economic year in 2024.
Another important consideration for steam is that to do a route justice, in reality you need a large selection of locos and passenger plus freight stock, to represent the diverse traffic that could be seen. Spirit of Steam was an example of this with sparse timetable and acres of empty sidings everywhere. Take as an example the Somerset and Dorset which I mentioned above and I’m sure deep down DTG Matt would love to see in game. Going by the SIAM 1961 Bath Green Park traffic control simulation, you are going to need the following as a minimum: Ex LMS Jinty 0-6-0T for passenger and freight shunting at Green Park. Ex LMS or BR Standard 2-6-2T or 2-6-4T tank engines for local services to Bristol. Ex LMS 2P 4-4-0 for light passenger or piloting the Mendip expresses. Ex LMS 4F 0-6-0 well luckily we already have that in game. Ex LMS 4-6-0 Black Five. BR Standard Class 4 4-6-0 75xxx again for short passenger trains or Mendip piloting duties. BR Standard Class 5 4-6-0 73xxx for express passenger services. The ex S&D 7F 2-8-0’s also for express passenger. BR Standard 9F 2-10-0 for the heaviest passenger trains (they could take 11 coaches over the Mendips without a pilot loco). Coming in from the Southern as a minimum you could expect to see West Country Class Bulleid Pacific’s and BR Standard 4 2-6-0 76xxx’s. On a summer Saturday all variety of traction could arrive from the north on the various holiday expresses. So it would be very difficult to do a convincing simulation even doing just two of the above plus the existing 4F. You would never end up with the situation where a 9F would be piloted by a 53xxx or two Black Fives on the front of a Mendip run. Would be just wasteful of power.
The problem is though, what steam needs is not the super iconic express passenger engines which only worked a handful of trains. See my post above re the S&D for the more typical workaday engines you would find on a vintage route. For the LNER something like a B1, B12 or maybe a V2 would see wider use. For GWR, everyone wants a Castle or King, but a Hall or Manor would be more useful.
It's a shame you don't go outside of the Steam installer, Vern, GAD has a lovely S&D route in the works. I understand your reasoning though.
I agree, but I just think it would be more likely for a pack like the A3 flying Scotsman pack, that’s why said the A4. I would also like tank engines
You start it small and build it in pieces. TSC's first period GWR route was Falmouth with the Pannier and Hall. DTG had everything they needed to get steam right in TSW - they should have added it to the already existing WSR route. Build it up piece by piece and make it work. Then go for the first steam era route. Instead SoS was a vanity project for the previous CEO and was FAR too much to begin with hence why it's like playing after a (silent!) zombie apocalypse. Then they went for a route that reused some of what they already had (which was the right way to do it) but picked one with a start and end point that made no sense. Then they quit. My plan to get into TSW was the Hayling route - Terriers, coaches, vans, single track with unusual scenery and working (a signal box on a swing bridge!). Probably 1 or 2 AI only southern locos for watching pass at Havant. It wouldn't set the world on fire - but it would have laid a solid foundation.
That would have made an amazing route to start with. Hopefully it might one day viable for you to make it. I would have been happy with a Pannier, B set, a few wagons and a five mile branch line for the first route. As said they probably were too ambitious with SIS. A shame as I would have liked to see it developed as it has great potential.
