What Birmingham Cross City Should Represent Irl Birminghamm New Street

This route always comes to mind, I loved playing this route I be non stop then it gets stale just seeing 323's all the time when there is so much variety across the route. with 350s, 390s, HST's, 170s. 153,150 and 158s. (730s, 196s,805's,807s weren't around in service when the timetable was made I believe) But I know it has been said multiple times but this route just needs a timetable remaster! Yes I heard they need to redo the paths I think? This route just needs so much life to it! We don't have 221/220s yet so HST's to replace the Voyager XC services.

153/150 services for the tfw route which did run on the routes but don't anymore. TfW services operate as far as Birmingham International and go to Shrewsbury,Chester, Holyhead, Aberystwyth.

170s for WMR services to Shrewsbury and Hereford since 170s ran on the route before the 196's were introduced.

350 services to Euston and Liverpool Lime Street.

Obviously 390 services to Euston and towards Scotland.

HST Services to Cross Country services to Bournemouth, Plymouth etc

I really want Dovetail to improve this route with the timetable. I believe doing so could bring more people to buy it if they already don't.
It is a shame we can't convince Liam to do one but he's done enough for the TSW Community and is a big asset to Dovetail and I say Dovetail are lucky to have him

But If Matt Sees this or any Dovetail team I hope you can sometime in the future not say 'this is not planned' and say to us 'There has been talks and sounds promising'
Adding Railtours would be big as well with Midland Pullman, Steam tours etc.
The Route has really big potential now.

Also, know the 170s are SCR ones but look what Johannes did to add action to his route! Would love that and I wouldn't mind the interior being branded SCR as long as the Exterior is branded in correct livery.

What do you all think?

 

I do know btw DTG don't have XC licence so be unbranded.

 

It is one of those routes that could definitely benefit from a timetable upgrade.

 

Currently taking HST from Birmingham to Bromsgrove cause why not and I have to say the Route looks great, good amount of vegetation and very good scenery. Just needs the timetable remaster

 

Definitely needs a timetable update. It should be standard for dtg to put placeholders for future rolling stock, to appear in the timetable as the rolling stock is released ideally.

We shouldn't have to request it.

 

Totally agree with you mate. I really do.

 

Would be epic indeed, I'm a bit suprised someone hasn't tackled it with the editor in their spare time. Of course they would need a lot of spare time by the looks of it.

 

Also I think it be good to have Soho depot in the game which is actually in the game but Dovetail just gave up on it :/ Like Soho depot in my opinion was Key.

 

Funnily enough, they did when they redid SEHS.

They made sure to add space in the timetable for additional layers such as the 700. Although I wonder if they did that purely because they knew they were going to add it.

But then, why not just do it anyway just in case?

 

I voted no.

But only because I don't trust DTG to do a timetable remaster.

A third party like Skyhook or Just Trains, absolutely.

 

I said yes but sadly I fear this is now abandonware which they will not spend resources on, not even to fix the scenery issues south of New Street. The best we could hope is they dust off the master copy and make an extended West Midlands network adding Coventry, Wolverhampton and maybe Walsall. However with the licensing issues that probably going to be more trouble than it's worth for them.

 

I agree the route has a lot of scope for more to be made of it, with some timetable improvements.

Lamplight and I had some fun re-creating Class 47 hauled cross country services over the route, using Free Roam. Our accounts are here:

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...nd-performance-tsw-edition.85628/#post-917946

 

As somebody from the Midlands I'd love a West Midlands network. However, after what happened with Cardiff, I would be worried about how well it would be modelled. Coventry, Birmingham International and Wolverhampton are all big stations and I can also see Walsall and Tame Bridge Parkway getting teleport points since you need to leave the station to change platforms.

 

Yep could be such a good little route. Imagine would need to be a 730 release to trigger it as it was with Cathcart, which I wouldn’t be against.

New Street needs filled out and we’ve a lot of trains to do that now.

 

I wonder if there might be a problem with going back to the route because of licensing issues. West Midlands Railway is part of the same group (West Midlands Trains) that runs London Northwestern Railway.

 

Pity, they could have included the timetable when they did the 323 Centro livery pack.

Anything like a 730 is unlikely due to the licencing issues.

Class 220/221 would fit nicely as AI traffic since they are very common at New Street, but I don't think they stop anywhere modelled in the route - not sure anyone would buy one just to see it as AI. Perhaps a Voyager add-on for another route like MML could be bundled with a New Street timetable?

 

BCC is desperately in need of various enhancements. However, the same can be said for ECW as another example.

 

With regard to licencing for WMT/LNWR, their core franchise period has already expired just like UK Transport Group's other TOC franchise Greater Anglia but they were both granted extensions to September next year. However, GA is about to be handed their 3 month notice allowing GBR to take over services in late Summer/early Autumn 2025 and the WMT/LNWR is expected to follow in February/March 2026.So it's a temporary problem hopefully.

So much is hanging on DTG's ability to get a license with GBR right now. But hopefully some of the current bars to releasing TSW versions of highly requested routes will start to become less of an issue over the next couple of years as GBR take over.

 

LNER, Northern and Southeastern are all owned by the government so I’d expect DTG to get licensing with GBR.

 

Hopefully GBR are easier to deal with, licence wise. They could end up being a godsend, finally allowing us to get routes and classes that are currently off limits. The current franchise holders are not always helpful, which is a shame.

 

It does seem that they have a good relationship with the DfT. And the UK Treasury want all the money it can grab so that may also work in DTG's favour.

 

These licences have already been used and are likely still valid for further use.

 

It really depends what priority the new GBR gives to dealing with a train game developer, as opposed to sorting out the various post privatisation tangles that confront them. Not saying it won’t happen, but just because it’s no longer a private company running the services doesn’t necessarily mean co-operation. Look no further than SNCF or SBB for examples of that.

 

It's strange how the government owned routes aren't already being rebranded to GBR. Perhaps the DfT wants the focus of the renationalisation story to be ousted franchises, rather than highlighting how many routes are already operating quite badly under their control.

Anyway, it won't really be for the DfT to decide. The Treasury is calling all the shots, as has been the case for decades here in the UK.

There are so many unknowns at present. It must make planning new DLC on their internal roadmap a bit of a nightmare for DTG.

 

BR Classic (or earlier) is always open…

 

Nothing I'd love better than an Network South East era route, at long last. Every station filled with the sound of slamming doors.

 

Even just static stock in New St, would be a good start. As least it wouldn't look so empty.

 

We could even get some WCML ai at Lichfield TV low level

 

It's always fun to see people's reactions after they complain about the money-hungry private something something somethings running their train, only to be told it's actually a nationalised operator. Sometimes you get some fantastic mental gymnastics.

 

I just thought it was all the oracle's that like to give everyone the Idea they know so much, actually proving they know not as much as they thought they did and can't be seen to be publicly eating humble pie.......



I should also say humble pie is tasty, I've eaten it many a time.........

 

Like other routes, the scenario planner is horrendous. Why make a route like that where in scenario planner it allows 2 trains maximum at any time in New Street.
Scenario planner is one of my biggest annoyances in this game, they don't want you to make good scenarios.

 

If that's the case, then anything WMR/LNWR could be unbranded, like WCMLS.

 

It is possible to bring extra parts of BCC in to play. Have a look at the link below if you are interested.
Lichfield

 

My understanding is that the unbranded LNWR 350s were a last minute decision because licencing was not agreed on, they were not originally set to be so.

The recent unbranded stock on Mildway is AI only.

I can't see them developing and trying to sell a new unit only for it to be unbranded - I suspect a lot of people wouldn't buy it.

 

Sorry, but it's literally just a load of pics with no context. And I see nothing of New Street in there, which was in the part of my post you didn't quote and my biggest grievance of this route.

I know there's a PC editor, but I'm interested in something that all TSW users can benefit from.

 

Erm...there is context, he mentions in the text that it's a scenario he made to see if the link line at Lichfield TV could be used.

 

Don't worry Marc. You just can't please some people.

I just find it a bit amusing to be criticised by another player wanting to be able to make better scenarios when I have (a) already released a mod that adds over 7,000 formations to the game, (b) have another one ready to go that will add a further 1,600 formations, (c) have 3 more mods that will add over 100 paths per route to TVL, EDN-GLA and Goblin for scenarios, (d) am half way through creating a mod that will bring every single platform in to play at New Street amongst other BCC changes (Inc Lichfield and SOHO) and, finally, (e) have created a mod that will enable scenario creators to fill up sidings with loose consists thus solving the devoid look of most routes.

And all of these paths, formations and even some extra scenarios will be available to players to simply use in-game. It has taken me a year to get this far. Shame the OP just can't say "Thanks for your efforts".....but it takes all sorts I suppose.

But thanks for your support Marc. It is appreciated

 

People still bought WCMLS with the unbranded 350.

 

If every DLC came unbranded I’d assume DTG would lose sales.

 

Depends, if it's a great route fewer people would mind. If it's an okay route then maybe it could affect sales.
Like the GA stock at Stratford, it looks great without branding. I doubt it really affected WCML South, the initial bad reviews were mostly about bugs and lack of LO services. Only a few seemed bothered that there wasn't proper branding.

 

Yes, but a train only DLC with incomplete livery might be a harder proposition.

 

As long as they explain why its unbranded as they did with the 350, I don't see any issues.

 

Doesn’t licensing also dictate how DTG get access to the modern units? eg. The class 730 only run by WMT.

 

DTG can have a licence but that doesn’t automatically grant access to what the railways might regard as secure operational information. Examples being the US freight railroads and mostly famously MTA in the New York area who have refused any access to research the Subway system despite their having previously agreed a licence for Metro North and LIRR being in the game.

 

And here are a few more (from a TSW5 Test Scenario running from University to Four Oaks for those who require context )



Screenshots taken from a 45 minute test scenario on a TSW5 set up that has my Cross City Paths mod and Formations mods added to it. All in all they combine to give a nice colourful TSW experience

 

That's unfair. DTG can do brilliant timetables, if they put one of their timetabling aces on the job, like Joe or Liam. LIRR2 has a fantastic TT, as do Brighton Mainline and the redone Hamburg-Lubeck

 

The harder proposition is persuading DTG to reskin trains for a free update, since several of the trains in question, such as the Thameslink 700 as well as the GWR/MML HSTs, would be all wrong in their current paint

 

Stunning!

 

True, although these days DTG often simply choose not to.

 

Yes they do do fantastic work....off their own backs. They do the work in their own free time, DTG as a company though would be happy to send out half finished timetables, just look at the timetable we got for WCML last summer upon release and we were told it wasn't going to be altered.

It took Liam and others to work hard again to fix it.