Athena Simulations: Ecml Diesel Railtours

Once I'm back from work later this evening I'll give it a butchers for you. (Unless someone else gets there before me). Although from my quick look this morning I vaguely remember wooding panelling with new moquette. Did seem quite different to the existing Mk1s interior if my memory serves me correct.

 

Yes, I would agree AP could do a greatnjob on the audio, it just surprises me that probably the most popular diesel type hasn't been seen more.

 

Thank you for the kind and encouraging comments!

We did actually make 7, 8 and 12 car formations for folks to use in scenario designer/freeroam, so I'll pass this feedback along.

 

You'll never take the persiflage out of the forum.

 

Personally felt the scenarios were devoid of ai traffic. The second scenario had 7 ai trains in a 90 minute service.
I'm running a class 33 from Doncaster to Peterborough via free roam in service mode and had 7 ai services pass me before I even got to Retford. It's a nice pack but the lack of ai in the scenarios let it down. Also the 47 should have GSMR fitted and should be a clagfest when pulling away.

Hentis

 

I think only 55019 is operational which may be a factor.

 

l had £9.12 left in my account so it cost me £2.87

However l am out all day today and most of tomorrow so may not get time to play it until the evening.

 

AP released a soundpack for TS classic several years ago, so I’d presume this or a variant could be used. It’s then down to a skilled modeller to perfect the rest.

 

Ooh, that's disappointing. Mike-ATH seemed to emphasize the presence of lots of AI traffic in the scenarios.

 

I did a scenario from Doncaster to Peterborough (so the full route). 3 trains passed me in 90 mins and 2 more seemed to be ‘stuck’ at reds behind each other. Static stock is very sparse. Nothing like timetable mode.

As things stand you’d be better doing a free roam in timetable mode.

 

They need to get Mk1s substituting into timetable mode to make this pack worth it. The scenarios aren’t great…

To be balanced the class 47 and Mk1 stock look stunning.

 

DTG will need to run updates to many British DLCs 1st and 3rd party to make that happen. Cant in my wildest dreams imagine that happening. Even though it 100 percent should.

 

Funnily enough the thread isn’t actually specifically a feedback thread either. Throughout on multiple occasions there has been discussion about what ATH may / should / could do in the future and that’s ok. Threads don’t always have to stay rigidly on topic.

The feedback thread is here if you were looking for that one:
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/ecml-diesel-railtour-pack-feedback-thread.90599/

 

I agree.

They’ve worked with Just Trains closely (mentioned in the launch article).

Can’t help thinking the Mk1s will be used for their next route…

 

They could on the day of release. Especially with lets say, teething problems.

 

Well, the Mark 1 buffet is coming with the class 86 and mark 2 stock so it's quite possible.

 

I think this is great having bought it on Steam, and anything that adds more 70s/80s/90s UK content is great with me. £11.99 is fine.

 

That would be a deal breaker for me. I hate being virtually the sole service on a busy mainline.

 

can anyone confirm if without active DSD are platinum medals are achievable?

 

Done a few scenarios now and the route is dead. Hardly any static stock and single figures in terms of AI traffic. Just done a Retford to Doncaster scenario. Passed 1 freight and one Azuma stopped at Doncaster seemingly going nowhere.

 

Hi all

Had a great time on the preview stream just now. Just wanted to confirm that we are looking into the DSD issue, as well as reports of reduced AI/statics. We based the AI services on real world timetables, endeavouring to layer in as much statics/AI as possible (for those of you who have them installed). Performance is something we have to keep in mind, but we were pushing it as much as we could, so this is definitely something we'll look into.

There are other reports coming in that I'll also be compiling together with these points so our team can review and plan.

 

I think I saw that word in HHGTTG

Possibly a quirkafleeg was involved

 

Nope gold at best

 

Yes I saw that word in a book I was reading ( not HHGTTG ) and I liked it so much I vowed to find a way to get it into a post. I think it's from the ubble- gubble language and translates to " annoying people on train sim forums by going wildly off- topic.".

 

Only caught the end of the stream but thought the team came off well, clearly very passionate about their product. Shall hopefully pick up this pack soon.

 

I did some comparison shots for you.

Spirit Of Steam:


WSR:


ECML:


Some of my own observations since I've been up close with it, and these observations all come from the hour and a bit since I got in from work.

As noted by you, and as clearly seen in the image, these are not the late plastic interiors. After looking closer at the smaller details, particularly the signage inside the coaches such as on the alarm chains, I've come to the conclusion that the texturing and modelling inside the coaches is primarily a cut and paste of the WSR version but with the SOS tables. There were only three new textures that I could find, and they were the seat upholstery (which somehow manages to be the lowest resolution texture of all three examples), and on the heater dials and light switches. And somehow the overhead luggage racks have just become pure white everywhere except the screws that hold them on the walls. Everything else is identical to prior releases.

The interior of the FKs is a similar story. The seat upholstery has been updated and the overhead luggage shelves have for some reason been changed from their normal mesh texture to the solid wood of the walls. Asides from that however all remains identical as before, even the wall signage. A whopping £25 penalty for improper use of the alarm chain in the 21st century!

On the subject of functionality, on the BSO and TSO the climb up function to enter the coaches from ground level is absent on all doors except the BSOs guard compartment. I imagine because it has a lower step? The FK however can be entered from the ground as per normal. Also in the TSO and BSO, the internal vestibule doors remain open and cannot be closed.

And on the subject of those light switches...
You ask about the fluorescent lights, and having rode on later condition MK1s on multiple different railtours I too was curious about this. Notice how they're switched off in my picture though? I honestly wish I could have shown you what they were like, but they don't even work, they spawn in switched off and you can't switch them back on.

I'm sure you're well familiar with this panel? This is as it is represented in the WSR and SOS examples:


Well in the ECML version...


It seems to be blank in both the TSO and BSO versions. FK and BG still have the detail there, but it is completely without function even though the buttons can be pressed.

And as for the exterior models, the notion that the coaches at least are a 100% completely new model is a complete falsehood. Every poly count, every curve or small cable, is shared with one or both of the prior MK1 versions. Much like the interior, it appears to me that these MK1s are simply made of a cut & shut, a merging of both the SOS and WSR versions, then with a new texture put over the top. They all even still say they came from Doncaster Lot No 30170. I will give Athena credit for that texture though, it is a very good one, shiny or matt in all the places it should be.

So to conclude my little analysis, the good things about these coaches are the external livery, the dual brake functionality, and the sounds are pretty good. Athena did mention involvement from Armstrong Powerhouse in that regard. When I first heard them I thought they sounded immediately familiar and that they might have just been the WSR sounds, but upon comparing them further I do think they are new sounds, just very similar as they were likely recorded from a very similar coach (running noise is all in the bogies I suppose). On another note which many might overlook, their gangways are actually compatible with those of the MK2 and MK3 stock now. If you ever tried to couple one of the previously available dual braked BGs to a vacuum braked MK1, you would find the gangways would become completely stretched out.

Beyond those three pros however, almost everything else about these coaches appears to just be a copy and paste of elements already present in other MK1s already available, and definitely nowhere near the level of originality they have described.

 

Thanks for confirming, based off this I'll be waiting until/if this is patched.

 

I really enjoyed the stream and yours and Janes passion was clear to see, however I play solely with safety systems so I'll sadly be holding off pulling the trigger to purchase until the DSD issue is resolved.

That said I was really impressed with the level of detail in 47 484 and look forward to being to add it to my collection.

 

Haven't watched the stream yet, as it coincided with my stream. I hope to watch it over the next few days.
What i also hope to do is delete the ECML pack and re download it from the store for the PS5. Since getting the pack last week.i have had two updates. I will run one of the scenarios again to see if it's any different.

Hentis

 

MP600 won’t quote your post in its entirety but thanks for confirming the state of the Mark Ones. Basically a reskin job as suspected. A shame, as while I prefer the older style with the wooden panels, the newer style builds would have been more suited to current Railtour operations. Of course in addition to completely restyling the interiors they would have needed to replace the bogies - to either Commonwealth or B4 types which permit 100 MPH running. In fact, not even sure if stock fitted with B1 bogies is permitted on the main line by Network Rail and the ORR these days.

Also if memory serves me correctly the later build Mark Ones had aluminium window frames rather than wood and different style luggage racks.

So I will definitely not be getting this except maybe in a deep, deep sale and by that I mean at least 60% off. A shame as we do need some decent blue/grey Mark Ones in the game but these don’t appear to be it. IMHO this pack is only doing what DTG should have done themselves a few years back and reskinned the existing Mark Ones!

 

Well apart from sounds, the MK1's appear to be worse than the original! So we can't turn on the interior lights now? Yeah, that'll be handy for when travelling as a passenger through tunnels

 

Can somebody tell me why sounds for the sliding doors were ripped from the class 101 DMU?

Why do half of the internal coach lights not even work, making the train look stupid during night services?

Why do the class 47 cab window surrounds remain stuck in place when the window is opened or closed, and coach windows glitch wildly when they are moved too?

Why do the coaches use oil lamps at the rear, instead of modern battery tail lamps?
Would it really have been so difficult to change them for this pack?

But most importantly.... Why did DTG charge me £11.99 to beta test this abysmal DLC?

 

The Beta Testers are doing a great job, everyone in the team is working hard........

 

I was up to buy the pack later this afternoon, but now im giving this a hard pass.

Using existent vehicles and release it botched down to half the features is something i experienced with a certain developper im not supporting anymore.

There are mk1s with working light panels in tsw, so where is this shortcut coming from?

No thanks, i smell rushed content here.

 

As remarked previously, just because beta and play testers spot something and report it, doesn’t mean to say the developer or publisher will action it. I have not done any testing for TSW or DTG but going by previous experience with other titles, it can be quite disheartening to submit detailed reports on items that need attention only to be told they are not regarded as show stoppers, so no delay to publication. I suspect TSW testers experience the same utter frustration.

 

Vern, you really need to stop playing TSW while hungry. Have a sandwich first.

 

Well I was all set to pop for this pack yesterday, but I held back upon hearing of the DSD issue and, especially, the lack of AI and static stock. I think I'll wait for some more opinions and patches. It's beginning to look like a sale purchase now, which is disappointing because this is the era of UK rail that I enjoy.

 

While it's not the same, the Mark III buffet can fit in with the mark 1s on formation creator. If that helps lol

 

It just seems to be the norm now, launch it ready or not. It is nice to have MK1s in BR blue livery, not sure about the 47?

 

I think Mike addressed this but we put in a ton of AI and static stock, so we are investigating what happened and hoping to fix that shortly. Mike spent a huge amount of time on this. We are looking right now and what happened in the release build. I will keep everyone updated.

The DSD, I take full responsibility for. We did miss it! Aaron is on the case to sort this.

 

I'm usually the first to call out any issues...

But overall as I've already said I'm impressed as a first entry into the game. I think unfortunately the wrong build was put out, but to have clear and thorough communication throughout should not only sit well with me but others in the community. I really appreciate the ATH teams transparency and eagerness to take onboard not only feed back, but going through the issues with a fine tooth comb.

My gut feeling is really positive so far and I am still enjoying the Mk1s and 47... Not only that, but I have a really good gut instinct with this developer so far and am really looking forward to the future developments, from the loco and route mentioned... Most importantly I am so excited that the 40 and 45 are now being given some updates and TLC behind the scenes, this sounds incredible. The Class 40 is a firm favourite of mine anyway.

Keep going ATH!

 

I still like the idea if this pack as I really like scenarios. I’m going to hold off for a bit until the DSD and the AI are fixed, but I still have every intention to buy it.

I enjoyed the preview stream and hope the enthusiasm shown carries through to more things that I’m going to want in the future.

 

I had a notion that this might be the case; it wouldn't be the first time.
Anywho, if this is what happened, it shouldn't be difficult to correct. If the problems are solved quickly, I would still be on board

 

If this is a genuine mistake that can be satisfactorily rectified then I will definitely buy as I like the subject matter and want to spend more time on the ECML. For me ai traffic on this route is critical as it’s a busy route.

 

I doubt it will. The scenarios are very basic when you see what’s going on. Fast trains overtake you, they then stop further on at a red on the fast line whilst you pass on a slow. Only for you to then move into the fast, then later back on the slow for the same service to pass you again. Once you’ve played a few scenarios you’ll realise it’s the same trains overtaking and then slowing down. A Quick Look on the map and you can see there’s only a handful of AI trains. It’s designed this way, doesn’t seem to be a bug to me.

 

So made for kiddies instead of simulation aspect and historic accurate?

 

Welcome back redrev, havent seen you around here for more than a year.

 

Tried the first scenario where one has to couple up the 45 to 47 and then the Mk1 coaches, has the 45 sounds received any love? Engine sounds fade in and out as you power up, sure the 45 did that on release? I haven't driven it for a long old time though, does the AWS work on it? I've flipped the AWS lever to on but no AWS? A tip for anyone doing the first scenario, make sure all the parking brakes are off in both loco's! Front and rear cab in the 45. I noticed a distinct lack of Ai too. Still testing though so I will report back on my thoughts if anyone is interested.

 

AI we are aware of. There is an issue and we are on the case with urgency. We did add significant AI but something has gone awry. Again, we are on it. Apologies for that.

The 40 and 45 are entirely untouched by us except being imported in to the release. We wanted people who did not own the previous content to get a 45 and 40 integral to the pack. Although, we are now able to make updates and changes going forward on both, with these locos being put in our custody. So we are really excited to see where we go with both of these locos.

 

As I’ve said on the other thread this is a disappointing release for me. It seems that every release for TSW these days is way below par and much as I want to support TSW am having to consider whether it’s worth it anymore.

47484 is a relivery job and that’s it. No TPWS or GSMR and so I’ve paid £11.99 for some new scenarios and even those don’t work properly.

a real shame.