Tsg New Br194/e94 And New Timetable Discussion

So with the april roadmap we got shown that train sim germany is working on a new dlc for the linke Rheinstrecke adding the old Br194/E94 german crocodile which we have seen before on mittenwald with the OBB livery and different class name and with this new gameplay pack we will also get 2 new freight wagons and a new passenger coach. Another thing is that we will get a new timetable for the route itself making the date set back to 1984 when trans europe express/TEE was still in big service with international destinations over the Rhein valley railway with the iconic br103. The br111 br218 will now also layer onto the route aswell but i wonder what livery it will recieve for this timetable.

 

Interior for the new br194 and new wagon

 

Really excited for this one. Always loved Linke Rheinstrecke for being set in an older era, now this takes it even further!

Green crocodile aside, I am really hyped for that 2 axle box car for some reason, lol. And obviously for the silver N-wagens and the green old coach. This will be really amazing.

My biggest issue with Linke Rheinstrecke was always that it felt a bit empty with only two locomotives and two type of passenger cars. Even with layers it was a bit empty, since the layers didn't add that much and there was nothing that could substitute in. This seems to be quite lackluster by itself as well (I mean it only give you the E94), but it will have a better variety with all the layers included, should feel much more alive.

 

This will give us, apparently, three different Krokodil driving experiences. The one we have in OBB colors represents a very modernized and Austrianized train. Of the two new versions, the older (museum) version will have. besides cosmetic differences like the lights, manually-lapped brakes and Indusi 54. I'm not sure how the "modern" version will be tricked out, but I suspect it will be different yet, possibly with PZB90.

I'm torn as to livery. Given my attachment to Epoch III/IV I like seeing the chrome green; but by the date of LFR (1996) any 194s still in active service would have been at least ocean blue, if not orient red. Green was over twenty years out of date by then

(Oddly, in the stream they kept referring to DB E94 088. That is the loco in Wuerttemberg which became OBB 1020.10 and was the model for the Mittenwaldbahn loco- but 088 was never, ever a DB loco. It was DRG until the end of the war, then OBB.)
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NB: most obvious visual difference from the 1020 is the three-panel windscreen, as opposed to the two-panel the Austrians later backfitted into theirs

 

The museum version, being modeled after present-day E94 088, will be the most "modern" version in the pack, since it's equipped with PZB 90.
The version for the LFR timetable will be the BR 194 as it appeared in service in the mid to late 80s, equipped with I54, but otherwise mostly unchanged from how it was delivered originally.

E94 280/BR 194 178 is the only E94 that has ever been repainted into Ozeanblau-Elfenbein, all other DB E94 have only ever worn Chromoxidgrün until the day they were retired.

 

The museum version (E94 088) is the modern one, not the other way round.

It was never a DB loco, but today it is an operational preserved locomotive that's frequently used on railtours all across Germany. And yes, it was an ÖBB loco for most of its life, and ÖBB did modernise it, but it does wear its original colour and numbers today. Plus it has PZB90 of course, so it's all just a really interesting mix of eras.

The new timetable is set in 1984, not 1996 - no 194s were left in service with DB even in 1990. No pre-war electric locomotive ever wore orientrot as far as I know, and only very few received ozeanblau/beige - one single 194 and two or three 144s if I remember correctly.

 

The railtour E94 088 will have two-part window and the "80 years of crocodile" sticker, visible here. 194 will have three-part window as seen on the public screenshots.

 

This was the most exciting part of the roadmap. I have always felt LFR had the potential to be one of the best routes in the sim but traffic wise is lacking in variety. This pack will change that and will make it one of the best routes as far as I'm concerned.

I am pleased that TSG and JT seem to make historic content feasible as we are led to believe that only modern period DLC sells.

 

The convert coaches and the new wagon, if coupled with a 218, could be free roamed on the Niddertalbahn, which could make some interesting scenarios.

 

I’m quite excited for the coaches as I think these were the design similar to, but not quite the same as the Silberlinge stock, that I encountered on my Mittenwaldbahn journey in 1982. Only difference being by then they were in ocean blue and had the higher back seating similar to the Silberlinge rather than the bus style seats shown in the imagery. Still appeals to the masochist in me.

All we need now from TSG to complete the experience is a rake of UIC Bm232 and Am232 etc. long distance coaches.

 

I believe we've discussed already that if the coach you traveled in was ocean blue & beige then it can't have been a Silberling as those never wore that paint scheme. Most likely you encountered [A/B/AB/BD]yl "Mitteleinstiegswagen".

Either way, neither *n, *m, or *yl coaches have much in common with the *4yg "Umbauwagen". It's quite obvious from how much shorter than the standard 26,4 m the *4yg are. These were post-WW2 rebuilds of pre-WW1 (!!!) coaches, with new bodies built on top of reused frames.

 

Thanks for the background. I will enjoy the pack regardless!

 

I have no doubt you will - I'm also quite looking forward to it. The short, light trains are the only thing wrong with Mittenwaldbahn in my opinion, and it looks like this pack will really give the 194 some big heavy freight trains to pull.

 

Also at proper speeds. I want to get Mittenwaldbahn at some point, but the mostly 60 km/h speeds put me off a bit.

 

194 is an odd choice for Left Rhine, but they need a (more or less) period-correct route to run that on.

IIRC, in reality, freight on the left and right Rhine routes was basically done by 139s/140s and the occasional 151, e.g. for heavy coal trains. A 139 or 140 would definitely have been a more interesting choice, but I see the point: the crocodile is already there.

Speaking of which: the great chance TSG now has is to make a timetable that actually represents what was going on during that time:

103 with TEE and IC, using cars from Mittenwaldbahn (ideally with changed rear lights)
111 with Silberlinge, using cars from Mittenwaldbahn

What would also be nice:

110 in blue or ocean blue/beige with Talbot cars in ocean blue/beige for the D-Zug services.
110 in blue or ocean blue/beige with Silberlinge for Nahverkehrszug and Eilzug services.

110 in red/beige could also do TEE and IC stuff as 112 (west)

 

If we see more vintage DB we absolutely need m-Wagen; but remodeling the heavily refurbed Talbot versions would be a lot of work, not something that can just be tossed off for free.

 

How long did the Umbaue stay in service? I know I rode them when I was a kid ca. 1970, but did they really make it into the mid-80s?

 

The last ones went out of service in 1992, and only because that's when central door locking became mandatory. In 1988, DB had more than 400 still in service!

 

I take it most of them remained green because it wasn't thought worth the trouble to repaint them ivory/blue?

 

That is also my recollection. As for the use, I remember riding them in the mid-80s. Three-car sets with a 211 or 212 in front, around Euskirchen.

 

They all remained green until the end. They only ever wore that one paint scheme.

 

Yeah, Linke Rheinstreke is one of my fav routes as well and I love ripping along the river in the 103. But it suffered due to the fact that it was basically TSW’s first foray into historical German content (along with Niddertalbahn at the same time) so it didn’t have as much available for layers that would be historically accurate. Compared to modern German stuff with is extremely well established in the game so there are dozens of layers that can be pulled from them.

But as time moves on the vintage German stuff is growing, thanks in a big part to TSG and their awesome DLCs.

Older German stuff has turned into probably my overall favourite content in the game so I hope to see more and more of it. There’s lots of interesting liveries and rolling stock, and the locos are all unique and fun to drive in their own way. The 111 has turned into probably my fav loco in the game right now.

I’m happy this thread is here because as a Canadian I have little knowledge of German rail and especially vintage German rail, outside of what I learn through this game and the community. Most online sources are in German.

 

Is a cab car needed for that 84 time period? Currently the n-wagens only come in mint green (which started in 86 I believe) and modern red.

Im guessing the most accurate one for 84 would be the silver with the blue/beige tip:

 

Yes, they would be the most relevant. Earlier, there had been some Silberling cab with just orange stripes on the front. I think they were still around in the mid-80s. Not sure about the older type of cab car (not the Karsruher Kopf, but the flat type.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-Wag..._50_80_82_34_192-8_1998-05-30_Luebeck_Hbf.jpg

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-Wagen#/media/Datei:Bn-Wendezug.jpg

 

This should be a really popular pack. I do have one request of the team though.
Could they put the Umbau coaches as static display items in the various railway museum tracks that exist in other German routes? (e.g. Freilassing) just to make them look a little busier.

 

I've been saying for some time that TSW really needs a 140

 

Great idea. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think in Dresden-Chemnitz there are some coaches that look similar to this parked along the route, maybe a museum? They weren’t actual real game coaches though but static models that can’t be moved.

 

Those are on the narrow gauge railway that starts at Freital-Hainsberg. About the only thing they have in common with a DB Umbauwagen is the colour green...

 

I'm beyond excited for this pack! This is exactly my cup of tea, and a great enrichment of the German vehicle roster in TSW. The more vintage rolling stock we get, the easier it will be to recreate more backdated routes in the future

The E94 will be a great addition! Not the perfect fit for LFR, but I can look past that, just as I looked past the use of the 110 for freight services on the current timetable

The hidden gems in this pack for me personally are the Umbauwagen and the possibility of a backdated 218! Those can be used very versatile, on so many possible routes

It would be a nice addition, but isn't mandatory. Many trains at the time also didn't have a cab car at all.

Yes, after the mid-70's this variant was the most widespread
The ones with the orange stripes li150special mentioned were not as common, but still in use until the mid-90's. In my home area (around Augsburg and München) they were most commonly seen in combination with electric locos, while the diesel cabs usually had a blue/beige front.

That's a great idea! The same goes for the silver n-Wagen, many museum organisations have some of those these days, to use on railtours and events. And since we've got a good amount of museum locations ingame now (Freilassing, Hanau, Neustadt(Weinstr), Chemnitz to name a few), this would greatly enrich the scenery

 

Looking forward to this Loco pack. Will be day one purchase.

However I must add that I really miss the BR 218 layer for Niedertalbahn. This would be a great opportunity.

 

Can't wait, the DLC sounds too good to be true.

 

Let's just wait and see... if a backdated 218 really is in the works, all the necessary pieces would be in place. It seems that release of the pack is still a couple of months off, a lot can happen in this time

 

Now that you mention it, the E 69s all stayed green or purple-red right up to retirement, even though late in life they were pulling Ozeanblau coaches.

 

A blue/beige E69 is a hilarious idea. If we had them in TSW, I'd be booting up livery editor right now!

 

If they had ever put an E69 in Ocean Blue/Ivory I doubt it would have been very dignified. The older locos that they attempted to put it in like the 194s and 144s didn't exactly wear it very well (although you could argue it wasn't the best way of applying the livery).

 

I would have brought this pack right from launch but im gonna hold off for a litlle while since i first need to buy mittenwald to get some of the other stuff layered in

 

Oh, of course! The word I used was "hilarious".

 

Beyond excited for this pack. As others have alluded to above, it’s not a perfect fit by any means. In some ways, this pack takes even more artistic freedom than the original timetable. But the end result will probably be worth it.

I’m glad to see a proper E94 in TSW. All freight traffic on the left Rhine route being pulled by one will hardly represent reality but I wager it will feel more authentic compared to the 110s doing it in the original timetable. Were any E94s with these old pantographs actually still in service in 84? I’m not complaining, I’m just curious. I’m assuming the choice fell on the old pantographs as a mix of setting the E94 apart from the 1020 and because it’s interesting to show the loco closer to her original condition.

As mentioned in the roadmap thread, the new wagons - the freight car but especially the Umbauwagen(!) - are the unsung heroes here. Umbauwagen will be surreal to see in TSW. Also, the Falns being brought up to scratch is amazing. Since the ones from the 155 DLC are outdated and broken, we only had the Eanos from the Vectron for coal trains. Now, we finally have proper coal cars.

Of course, that leaves the fascinating implication that we will also finally get a backdated 218. All vintage German/Austrian routes released so far need one, so this will be quite the gap filler that could only be rivalled by the likes of a 140/141 (yes, I couldn’t resist bringing up the 140 again).

Cab cars will be an interesting one. I don’t think any were mentioned, so curious if they’ll whip one up or whether they’re going to deviate from reality there.

Very interesting pack. More of an artistic impression than a capture of reality but I’ll happily take it.

 

Exactly my train of thought, pun intended
I never completely warmed up to the 110 being used in freight service. It's a nice substitute and the loco sure fits the route well, but try getting a ~1300t freight train moving at night during a snowstorm with a 110
In terms of realism, a 140 would probably be the better solution on LFR, for both time periods (yes, I couldn't resist too). But I won't complain about the E94 either. The description included in the roadmap reads like it will be a quite different driving experience than the 1020, and even more tricky to master... bring it on

I found at least this picture and also this one of some at Stuttgart in '83 and '84. The first loco is from Kornwestheim, the second one from Nürnberg, and both seemingly kept their old pantos.

Absolutely! They add to the possibility of having more backdated routes in the future... I even started thinking if I'd give the editor a shot myself because of it

 

There wasn't really any priority to change the BR194s over to the double contract strip pantographs and so numerous ones retained the single strip pantographs right up until withdrawal in 1988. An Example of one here in Kufstein in 1988
https://www.flickr.com/photos/51265696@N03/50755249726/

Some of the Ingolstadt based BR194s were converted to double strip pantographs because they tended to be used on heavy oil trains and so with the double contract strip they could run with the lead pantograph only raised, but as shown above that wasn't always done! I think around 39 were so converted.

 

Certainly not Slight off-topic, but I often bring up the Milwaukee Road electric Boxcabs whenever I can since I’d love to have these in TSW. So, generally speaking, the older, the better for me. It’s genuinely fascinating to see tech from the 1940s accurately simulated like this. Of course, I still hold out hope for the other Einheitseloks to come, particularly the 140, but if TSG continues like this, it’s likely only a matter of time before they need one for a route.

Thank you both. I had assumed the conversion was more wide-spread, but E94s are not my area of expertise

 

Same. Getting to know the ins and outs of these old beasts is very intriguing, and also very rewarding. I already mentioned it in another thread... mastering a loco like the 1020 or E94 feels much more like an achievement than one of the modern stick-pusing ones. At least to me.
I'd be overjoyed if we'd get a E44 or even E17 at some point in the future... or something like an ETA 150

One thing I've learned about DB in the 70's and 80's is that there was a huge, huge amount of variety. Infinite diversity in infinite combinations, so to say
One of the reasons for why it's my favourite era.

 

Impressive and for the East German electric routes they need the matching DR Baureihe 254 version

 

I'm curious to see if the BR110 can still be used in this new Timetable. I'm no expert, but I strongly suspect that the Red Livery from the Original Timetable isn't appropriate for the Time. It would be cool if a BR110 (in the same livery as the Mittenwald BR111) were included in the Pack.

 

No, the red was not there in 1984. They were dark blue or ocean blue/beige, the 112 variant also red/beige.

 

Speak of the devil- this was just posted today

 

I actually like it, lol

 

Everytime i see it in this color it looks to me like it's hungarian because it strongly reminds of theirs 431s.


Photo: © John Mulrine

 

To me I always think of BR locos, Ocean blue is actually quite close to BR blue, and the ivory ends do a similar thing to the Warning Yellow on BR locos