[speculation] Just Trains Are Making Wcml North Route.

I'd hazard a guess that Just Trains are making WCML North for TSW6, which they are going to surprise drop with their class 86/2.... Probably going to be a sales gimmick for TSW6, to get all the older players buying the yearly update.

And what is my basis for this wild speculation, you ask?

https://store.steampowered.com/app/208379/Train_Simulator_Class_86_Loco_AddOn/



WCML North was a route requirement for the class 86/2 loco DLC in Train Simulator Classic, apparently.

 

I suppose they have been quiet recently with no announcements about route development - possible! If they do, I would love to see a modern timetable created too (potentially by a third party so it doesn't detract from JT's dev time for older content which some players appreciate - but on all platforms - the modders are great, but it's sad their work is often PC only), alongside relevant modern stock (thinking TPE 397 perhaps). Could be good fun.

 

I could be wrong but I'm sure I heard whispers JT wouldn't be developing WCML North...

To be honest the 142 for CCN and 86 + Mk2Ds are probably enough to keep them busy for now... I think route wise they might take a step away from the WCML and surprise us by focusing on a different geographical region. The last two releases of JTs have been absolutely phenomenal.

I always hoped they may bring the entire Metropolitan Line along with LU S Stock, like they had developed for TSC, across to TSW. Something very different.

 

They said it on the WCMLoS preview streams several times and stated it was too long and too complicated.

 

If Rivet games or Athena on the other hand got their hands on it... Imagine the backlash

 

Yes fairly certain JT said they were not contemplating going to Glasgow. That said, with the AC electrics in their roster not unthinkable they might not look further south at something like a period Trent Valley or similar.

Though my smart money is still on their next route being North Wales Coast, or a part thereof as, apart from some decent blue/grey Mark Ones and a Class 25, most of the traction and rolling stock is already in game.

 

I understand what you're saying, and don't disagree. It would leave many questions though...

Carlisle station is a Just Trains asset, so if they don't make WCML North, how could anybody else do it now?

DTG won't make a 100+ mile route (they couldn't even make WCML Euston to Milton Keynes without third-party help), so does anybody really think they'd make WCML North?

Do you really want Rivet Games or Athena Simulations to make WCML North?

 

I’d like to think JT would make it but WCML North as it is in TSC may not even come to TSW at all. JT’s Class 86 is for WCML over Shap and that’s all we know. Their next route doesn’t have to join on to what they have already made but if it does it could go south from Preston rather than north. I’d like them to do Crewe to Preston and Liverpool. The only thing there is Spirit of Steam brought a lot of that to TSW already in what was a mediocre way. We haven’t seen duplicated routes in TSW yet and it could be a risk for any dev who tries it. I have no idea what they will actually make, I’m just expecting whatever it is to be good.

As for Rivet or Athena making WCML North, no I wouldn’t want that, I would want Just Trains to do it. I’m already sweating that Athena have ‘custody’ of the Class 40 and 45. They may be very enthusiastic but they have a lot to prove and I don’t have high hopes. Rivet are Rivet and will likely only do modern-ish content but may not even make their own UK routes any more with them taking on more route building for DTG. Their plans for more Swiss content may also have been scuppered due to recent developments. There’s no word on them making any of their own content but there is a roadmap coming up so you never know. And of course we don’t know yet what JT have up their sleeve. I will be happy if they do make WCML North but other people are saying they have said they won’t so I’m not expecting it.

 

Preston to Stafford would be the next logical choice given that would be ideal for the 86 and 87.

 

Another possibility for JT could be the Highland Main Line. We know at one time they were working on it for TSC, but the project got cancelled. They would certainly still have all the research data available and depending on era, apart from the blue/grey Mark Ones and maybe a Class 26, most of the required traction and stock already exists in game.

 

Whilst l too wouldn’t want either Rivet or Athena to produce it, in Rivets case they only receive a backlash as their work has been poor and amateurish. The way to kill that backlash is to improve their previous offerings, something they seem incapable of doing. I certainly would want Just Trains to do it, as their work always hits the highest of standards and are a total bliss for everyone to enjoy.

 

I think WCMLN is a long-shot because of just how many of the branches and loops you need to avoid the inevitable case of local services cutting in/out of the route.

Save the 101/314 you'd also need a brand new Class 303 (or similar alternative) for the route to do commuter services which you only see on part of the route, and may not be worth it.

I'd only see it happening if a Glasgow Commuter route (in the BR/SPTE era) was made.

 

Yes please!

 

WCML North between Gretna and Carstairs isn't too complex. North of Carstairs it gets more complicated but some already been done in Cathcart Circle. Doubt it's coming though like others have mentioned.

 

There’s been asset sharing before between DTG and third parties - Gospel Oak and Willesden are in Mildmay and lifted from Goblin/WCMLs and would presume that the Manchester Piccadilly from Glossop is the same that ATS are using for their route.

 

I want the Hamburg U1 Hochbahn Line from Just Trains like they did on TSC with the DT4 and DT5.
Or Modern British Routes and No BR Era

 

Personally, I’m hoping JT will head over to the East and give us a BR era ECML route next. Set somewhere in the crossover period of the Deltics and the HSTs. I don’t want to see any other third party do the Deltic after seeing how beautifully the 87 was modelled!

 

I think their next route would likely be Preston-Crewe just due to the nature of having their routes be interconnected, as well as having a lot of stock cross over. They could even have a "Would you like to continue this service" feature for trains continuing on the WCML south of Preston, basically route hopping without leaving your seat, with all of the stock in your formation and surrounding you being the same as well.
I think they might hold off on another route for a while though, as they have two locos to release, as well as the updates to BPL that were mentioned around the release of Shap (which are eagerly awaited )

 

Personally, I'd like them to take their 86 and Mk2s and plop it on a period GEML... though I am a little biased

 

They abandoned this project because they couldn't do the research needed! Specifically, Google maps was too low res and indistinct in the Highlands.

 

Shame, having researched and travelled through the area it's not too complicated.

 

They said many moons ago that the Cumbrian coast was requested often (as was West Highland mainline) and the main issue with both was that it's mostly single track and so would limit the amount of services possible.

I imagine it's a similar issue for Highland Mainline. Yeah the routes would work for TSC but for a 24 hour timetable like TSW with it's "open world" drive any service format it would kill it if the line has say only 20 services a day.

For me one of the many reasons JT have been successful so far is that for both Blackpool Branches and WCMLOS the start and end points are logical with all services stopping at those places, unlike with ECML and WCML south.

They have ruled out Carlisle to Glasgow, so if they stay north I can imagine something like Carlisle to Newcastle in 1986, or as others have suggested and the more logical choice, south to Crewe.

 

When I did the Far North line for MSTS in 2002 I didn’t have any DEM data and worked off paper OS maps purchased from the bookshop. I also had to extract coordinates from the maps by hand then convert them to the weird format that Kuju decided to use for markers in the game.

Where there’s a will, there should be a way and there is far more information available online these days than 20 or so years ago. Google is not the only resource. Failing that, book a couple of nights in a B&B, jump in the car and scout the terrain out for real.

 

Preston - Crewe - Stafford section is more likely than Carlisle - Glasgow, I believe (because of the length)

 

I really really really want them to make the Riviera line.

 

Are you familiar with the terrain and isolation up in the Highlands? A horse would be a better choice if you can't access from the rail line!

 

Yes.

A tent, a stout pair of boots and plenty of mosquito repellent, then!

There are also several cab ride videos available ranging from the old Jeremy English Railscene one to the more recent Videoscene production.

 

I greatly suspect the limited operations potential is why HML wasn't developed.

Similar to the S&C - iconic route but infrequent services.

 

I think 99% of UK rail fans want that route. But DTG will listen to the 1% that want something else like Leeds to York.

 

Preston to crewe/man Vic/Liverpool would be interesting not sure on the total route miles but would give a good bit of variation.

I can understand not going north though unless it just went to Carstairs but they probably would get slated for it for not having an obvious end point. I've been to Glasgow twice on steam trips and gone 2 different ways from Carstairs and never been down the most direct route into central that says alot before you get into stock etc how far and where do you end.

 

Aren’t Athena making a modern UK route? Also we haven’t seen them make any routes yet so it’s a bit too soon to judge over a loco pack.

 

Wouldn't really have hurt in TSC where most routes come with 6 - 10 scenarios, if you are lucky!

 

I completely agree.

I think it's totally unfair to be making such judgements about any routes or rolling stock Athena is building... We haven't even seen it or seen a preview to give it a fair judgement. So give 'em a bloody chance, aye.

Athena are one of the only developers to actually engage and and communicate with the community. Even prior the the release of their own 47 variation they were taking onboard criticism and modifying it accordingly... You don't get that often.

So yeah give them a chance for goodness sake!

 

Have you been living under a rock?

The Just Trains team regularly engage with the community, One of the devs has a Twitch account where he streams weekly content from TSC and TSW. Also Adam from Skyhook Games often engages with the community on the forums. Johannes from Incredible Trains has also been communicative and even extending his route after taking onboard feedback from the community.

 

Well, do you live under a boulder? Did I say JT or Skyhook haven't? In actual fact I've been nothing but complimentary about JT and Skyhook in various threads.

If truth be known I was making a back bit of a back handed comment about a few other unnamed developers who have very poor communication and never listen to feedback. Most people would know exactly who I am on about.

 

They did once say they had a route and loco plan to get the best out of all the assets they had / would have. So with the 86 coming, I'm pretty sure whatever they do next will involve using that and the 87. If I was hazarding a guess, they'll do south to Crewe and including the freight around Warrington area as well. Maybe a Class 56 for the loco on the route for that freight?

 

Hopefully, if they go further south it's not as interesting. Hopefully we get some HAAs and Speedlink wagon types. Oh and a 25.....

 

As well as Maik, Lukas and DominusEdwardius from TSG.

 

Never really understood this argument. So what if there are limited real life services. Most routes come with an endless number of very repetitive journeys. How many times do you want to drive the same train between points A and B?

If the scenery and stock are interesting and the route is well made, you drive it a few times and put it to bed for a while and come back to it a few months later.

Take the Dutch route, for example. I've driven both locos up and down the line about 6 to 8 times. It's enough. I'm bored with it. But by Christmas I might feel like making a few more runs.

I don't care how good a route is, I have a limited attention span for it. Of course if it isn't very interesting or poorly put together, I might run it just a couple of times and never again, like Glossop or Goblin.

Either way, it doesn't matter how many real life services there really are. Just make sure you put enough AI in there to make it busy enough ( even if exaggerated ).

( That is if you are not a completionist who wants to drive a route to distraction just to pick up 54 collectibles or drive 600 services and win a few decals and call yourself " Master of the Route ". Which, by the way, is not train simming so much as " arcading ". Which is fine if that's your thing. You can just drive the same service 300 times until you get your achievement. Again who cares how many real life services there are? )

 

I did get west Highland Fort William Mallaig for TSC. for a time it was interesting with the tokens on the class 37 and running a bit of steam over it but after a while I did find it got a bit boring. To me nothing wrong with the route or stock just not enough to keep me going. Same could be said of the Highland main line although in the 80s at least you may end up with a bit of variation on locos.

Glossop branch on TSW whilst local to me doesn't appeal. How many times can you run a 323 up and down before you become board and you cannot substitute for a different unit ether as their the only units that run on it.

Old vern has a good point though most TSC you were lucky to get more than 6-12 scenarios on some releases. JT were better than most but you also needed all the stock aswell which I got in an Xmas sale and it still did me in the best past of £200 for the MML stuff. my only grip with JT on TSC is some of the scenarios for MML were just run in the editor and not in game and had some glaring issues that had they been run in game would of been picked up on and edited out pre release.

That said it was the variety Of the jt scenarios that was a big pull and same can be said of there TSW content. To me doesn't matter if a route is long short goes through pretty scenery or stockport. variety is all ways going to the big one for me

 

Highland Mainline has

Speeds up to 100mph
Amazing scenery
Challenging Gradients
In all eras variety of traffic. In the 80s very much a 24 hour railway.
Sleeper Trains
Scotrail Express
HST/Azuma IC train.
Cement
Containers
Oil
Bitumen trains
Traction wise the 80s
47s, 26s, 37s HST
Current day
158s, 170s , HSTs, Azuma, 66s, 70s, 73/9s

Frequency wise it's not clockface but it's single track mostly with some exceptions so it's as the infrastructure allows.

If all the above fails Lampoil then that's that....

 

In truth I think routes like the West Highland, Kyle, far North etc. are better experienced as the real thing, particularly if you have a nice noisy Sulzer Type 2 on the front and steam heating hissing through the original Mark One rolling stock.

Not to say I wouldn't buy a BR classic West Highland in a heartbeat, but just as with Mittenwald, the full awe of the prototype doesn't quite carry over to the 2D monitor and pixels.

 

Yeah the Highland Mainline was a 24 hour railway back in the day, but it's still restricted with how many services can be added and we've seen with Cardiff Commuter what happened when the drivable services were padded out with depot shunts. It didn't go down well.

You could spawn at Dunkeld & Birnam but if the next service isn't due for another two hours for example, it's going to get boring so very quickly.

 

Even BML with a huge timetable could be construed as boring once the same runs have been done. I doubt many would spawn at Dunkeld and wait. TSW has the fast travel option now to jump location. Unless we do another EMU route or small network there is always a boredom risk. The Highland Line is a long railway admittedly so maybe not for all.

 

Part of me wants to say that JT could do the Settle & Carlisle, and by all means they could. They are absolutely the people who could do that route the most justice. However after developing their 86 and 87, I highly doubt they would so soon decide to jump to a route where those trains could only appear as AI or short shunts at one end of the route. Therefor I would agree that a run south of Preston towards Crewe is most likely.

How about doing that and setting it just a few years later? 1989 perhaps, with Class 90s and the first DVTs running alongside the older 87s and 86s? That would make for a very varied and very exciting electric timetable.

 

They have said they won't do Glasgow to Carlisle, but it doesn't stop me asking again and again!

As someone who worked on the MSTS version of the route (which later became a bit of a network!), a JT BR-era route out of Central would be the icing on the cake for me.

 

If it is too long - and it probably is - an Argyle line network would be nice, and would provide short WCML runs to Motherwell/Carstairs, Logical routes would be:

Glasgow Central to Carstairs
Lanark branch
Hamilton loop
Mossend to Motherwell
Wishaw loop
GC low level to Rutherglen

 

I love th Highland Mainline, it's in my top five UK journeys.

If it was to come over to TSW of course I'd buy it, but even with stuff like fast travel, free roam etc etc I don't think it has the service level needed that would justify the cost in producing it.

 

Maybe not no, its a shame though as many UK iconic routes and eras are now ruled out.

BR Dont sell
Quiet Scenic Line dont sell
Steam dont etc

TSW could be renamed EMU world (With some Diesels supporting)

 

Well, you say that, but this is literally a thread about a company that have made two very popular BR routes, with lots of loco haulage. Contintenal routes often do as well, and one recent one was set in the 1980s.