Upcoming Release Thomas & Friends™ 80th Anniversary Expansion - Coming Soon!

Yes I guess vocal minority sounds a little less harsh haha

 

And we have some pretty good measures of the size of that minority to compare to the original Thomas DLC's sales...

 

No one buys steam. DTG have said on multiple occasions that "Spirit of Steam" sold like mouldy cabbages.

 

FTFY!

 

As a measure of the overall unhappiness with " Thomas ", that's pretty meaningless.

 

No one buys it because DTG don’t make it.

 

Also don't forget SoS was created largely to appease the whims of the the CEO Paul Jackson who wanted to stand on a (as it turned out slightly underscale) model of Crewe station and watch steam trains going back and forth. DTG hyped it up to 11, then promptly sat back and totally failed miserably to capitalise on it with more traction and a greater variety of rolling stock - passenger and freight to fill out the route to its full potential. It was also marred for over a year on release by AI SPAD's which prevented many of the freight runs from being completed, including those in Journey Mode.

They rinsed and repeated with PFR, which fell down because it, well, went from nowhere to vaguely somewhere instead of starting at Derby and had a thinned out timetable. The new 4F loco had the tractive effort of the space shuttle but was then horribly under utilised just doing shunting and banking jobs.

 

DTG don't make it cause nobody buys it

 

They never said Steam doesn't sell.

They stopped making it because they couldn't get the physics to work realistically enough and us the community complained that it was not an accurate representation. Same with US freight.

And after working on the physics for a year for SOS and then 6 more months for PFR they basically figure they spent too much time it is not worth it as it won't sell in its current condition.l if they can't get it to work.

We as a comunity have said we would not buy it so thats partially on us and our griping.

BR Blue they said doesn't sell as well as modern one handled DLC. People seem to forget that last part and just hear the first.

 

Matt also says that BR blue era doesn't sell until Just Train come along and say hold my British Rail Cheese Sandwich, Maybe it's not that things won't sell, it's that DTG rush things out and do a fairly middling job of it. You'd think that with all the third party developers DTG would slow down their own output for 6 months or so and throw a couple of dev teams at the issues plaguing the routes while the engineers figure out what's going on with the core. We all know that should TSW 6 (a game we really don't need because the core changes won't be that much different) be launched this autumn all we're going to get is a brand new game full of all the same bugs and glitches we've had since they updated the game engine way back in TSW 2 Rush Hour and yet another abandoned broken game!

 

I didn't realize you have sales numbers to compare JT routes to other routes sales numbers.

If you don't then your just blowing smoke because you really don't know.

Also thats half of what DTG Matt said.

He said BR Blue doesn't sell as well as modern traction. Also it been over a year since they said that so opinions may have changed since the JT routes came out as the were basing off of TVL, TPE and WCL sales. In hate that people cut that last part off and just end with doesn't sell.

Also most people born from 1990 on probably doesn't have very big fondness let alone recolation of the BR Blue so I can see why modern would sell better. Those people are the 18-35 demographic now and there are more of them than any other demo.

As for the rest of your post you are spot on in my opinion and all TSW6 is going to be is probably TSW5 plus maybe half the bug fixes we have been waiting for and yes not needed.

I think a Rush Hour deal would be better.

 

Totally agree here. I read the title of this thread and thought "ooo sounds interesting" to find out its just some green slapped on and 3 additional scenarios on the same route is pretty diabolical and desperate from the busibess. Add onto the fact there are plenty of issues yet to be resolved it's not exactly content you'd want to be announcing... I feel a lot of this frustration is towards the business and not individual devs etc.

 

Then I guess we're doomed to endure an endless series of electric bus stop routes, and forget about steam traction and US freight.

At least from DTG. Do I draw the right conclusion? Yours won't be the only broken heart.

 

So why are steam locos being frequently made on TSC? Steam does sell if done right, your opinion is wrong.

 

All asking for Class 373 and Eurostar Route, but we‘re still waiting for it

 

At first glance saw a green loco and thought it was Percy as an additional extra to the story,but no just a repaint for a few quid ,won't be buying it not even in a sale

 

Well helpful, if not exactly what many of us want to hear…

Guessing my dream of heading out of Inverness in TSW on the 0615 to Wick circa 1978 with a Class 26 rasping away on the front, will remain just that. Or the 0240 Pigeon Special out of Bath Green Park towards Templecombe with a 9F blasting up to Combe Down Tunnel…

 

So what you're saying is, We're reliant on third parties to make something other than one handle trains on London commuter runs because DTG are just chasing money.

That's fine.

From now on I'll make sure it's only the third parties who get MY money.

 

+ various TSC devs, SimKol etc!

 

Perhaps, just perhaps, the people using this forum and posting on a regular basis (of all views), don't form the majority view of people buying the product.

 

Doesn't mean we should be ignored though, we're still buyers of the product.

 

Maybe its time you had more creative control, and your boss went to pastures new......

 

I do wonder if, after DTG have run their surveys (which I’ve personally never seen or been invited to), they simply look at the results and take a winner-takes-all approach. For example, if 70% say they want EMU bus stop routes but 60% also want more steam traction, it feels like only the top option gets considered—leaving a large group of players without the content they’re hoping for.

 

Works for me, Im one of those players that prefers modern scenery/rolling stock + TTs (Although not sure if a lot of the TTs are modern some 10+ years old on what are deemed modern DLCs)

 

Not only that, there are plenty of routes which could be made with the existing BR Classic collection (well maybe adding some blue/grey Mark Ones). I mean, the Class 40 never got its own route and loads of potential for the Class 31 or even a reskin of the 20 and 37 into BR Blue. So that removes a substantial amount of the workload budget for a 1970's or early 80s route.

 

Ok Thanks!

FYI - The link to the newsletter signup on your website footer leads to just the news page with no form to sign up.

 

That's all well and good but after your earlier comment regarding modern routes are king. What would be the point of asking for anything other than that?

 

I don't understand why some people seemingly can't get it through their heads that the devs who do liveries and design scenarios are different people from the devs who chase memory leaks, optimize performance and generally tinker around in the core. The devs who worked on this Thomas expansion were not somehow "taken off" addressing core issues- it was never in their skillset or their remit to do so.

 

Maybe part of the issue there is that the survey results are rarely, if ever, made public. So there I am frantically rearranging preferences to try and get my Class 26 and Inverness 1977 hub, but never see how that pans out against the other options. Knowing the results might encourage others to take part. A bit like reporting that pothole to the council… if everyone assumes someone else must have called it in, then the damage never gets reported. Maybe a skewed analogy but, but, Vern well now he’s getting his RMB has switched attention to a Scottish Type 2.

 

In the past I've resisted the urge to tag you directly to not be a pest but I am sure you've seen mine and others comments in regards to steam locos over various threads. I don't know what your surveys say in regards to steam but there is a lot of people on here who seem to want more of it. I know a lot has been said around the issue of physics etc but if there's a way to overcome those please strive to find a way. Please get it to a state where 3rd parties can create steam content as well. TSC has a massive library, I wish TSW could too.

 

But we have been and the only response we get back is "such and such doesn't sell."

It's frustrating.

 

Well there is a certain irony that the core of this article is discussing, an albeit simplified version, what is the oldest loco in TSW yet steam and classic diesel isn’t popular.

 

Tongue was firmly in cheek…

 

I'm in my 40's. I never grew up around steam locomotives. I own all of the TSW steam DLC and it would be great to see a 2-6-4 4MT or Mallard in the game..... BUT if a route with a FLIRT or a Class 195 was announced, or even Florida's Brightline, my money would go there first.

 

May I respectfully suggest that DTG take a leaf out of the MSFS playbook, where players can vote on the official forums for suggested improvements and bugs, and a list of these is shown during the monthly developer livestreams. I think Dovetail would really benefit from a little transparency, and as Matt regularly demonstrates, players can be much more forgiving and the forums a lot less toxic when they understand the issues behind the decisions.

 

Well, since you asked us to speak up...

I would venture that the surveys are showing there exists demand - maybe not commuter EMU level demand, but demand nonetheless - for two areas currently it seems on a "no can do" list: steam and US freight. Steam involves a host of technical issues I'm not qualified to discuss, although it's worth noting that the demand must be there, given how well steam sells in TSC.

But as to US freight- it appears that the reasons for the moratorium boil down to three:

1. Access
2. Licensing
3. Passengers

These actually intertwine. But to take them in order, as I understand the issues,

1. The major US RR since COVID simply won't cooperate with DTG wrt photo/video and sound surveys; they don't want outsiders crawling all over their equipment- and this just at a time US enthusiasts are demanding more and more detail and accuracy - "If you can't do it right, don't do it at all" said some.
2. Although DTG have negotiated licensing deals with six of the seven Class 1s that operate in the US (CPKC being the holdout), these are freight railroads; significant mixed-use rail can only be done in a metro area and that means getting a license from its transit authority. MTA, MBTA and Metrolink are on board, but other key players like Metra and SEPTA are off the table.
3. This overlaps with 2: without local commuter, and with Amtrak only running a couple of TPD outside the NEC, it seems that having commuter or intercity rail is right out, leaving pure freight as the only option (or otherwise, a bit of local freight on commuter routes like Worcester and San Bernardino)

But what if I said there was a way to kill three birds with one stone?

That stone is labeled "vintage."

1. The Class 1s won't provide access? The US has dozens if not hundreds of Class 2 and Class 3 shortlines and heritage railways. Most of these run older secondhand equipment- and some, I'm sure would be quite willing tom play ball. GP7s and 9s, SD30s, Alco PAs and on and on and on are still working, away from the big name brands. (in addition, there is a lot of vintage stock you must have surveyed for TSC)
2. Again: licenses with six of the seven Class 1s- which means derivative licensing for the famed fallen flags they absorbed: not just Santa Fe and Clinchfield, but Southern Pacific, Great Northern, the Burlington, Rock Island, New York Central, Pennsylvania, Rio Grande, Nickel Plate and on and on and on- just about all of those brands are owned by one of your current licensing partners.
3. And, before Amtrak, before metro transit authorities, passenger service in the US was operated by those fallen-flag railroads. Metra won't play ball? It was only formed in 1976. Meanwhile, intercity rail operated a much denser schedule than Amtrak (losing money on every run, but the ICC made them do it)

And so, my modest proposal: vintage Chicago area. The biggest cluster of trackage in North America, and the rail hub of the country, set at a time before Metra, before Amtrak, when the commuter network was run by the Rock Island etcetera, defunct brands now owned by your licensing partners. And, no, Clinchfield isn't a strong argument for the proposition that "vintage American doesn't sell." Clinchfield, much as I love it, only ever had niche appeal. Only nutters like me actually like slow coal drags up and down mountains, and shunting loaded hoppers on 3% grades.

EDIT: Also, no need to worry about PTC

 

There's so much rail traffic around Chicago, it's almost criminal that DTG has ignored it to this point.

Who needs Metra when you have UP, BNSF and CN pulling freight and the first two still operating commuter rail under Metra's system ( at least through this summer in UP's case. ).

Run a line to Aurora using BNSF freight and commuter branding with an occasional Amtrak SWC. Or the line to Kenosha using C&NW branded commuter trains, again with Amtrak and UP freight.
Or even a Milwaukee Road line to the west, Rock Island and Norfolk & Western to the south. There are endless possibilities.

 

Shame I went to see if there was an update since the announcement came out and it appears the petition has now been removed.

 

Theres a WHAT!?!?

 

There was an update. Two actually.

But then he demanded "Joshua" gave him money towards it, and called "Jack" a retard for defending the DLC. Which led to the petition being removed.

 

Well, I took that screenshot directly the day I posted it, to be fair to everyone who had signed it in the full time it had been up, rather than using the version I took shortly before the DLC's release where it stood at 12 signatures.

 

I'm actually impressed he even got the 38. Although when I looked last, which was pretty much right after you had posted your picture alot of the names of the signees seemed fake.

Tony Blair, Fred Flintstone, Hulk Hogan, Optimus Prime, Bittany Spears were a few of the names I can remember.

But over half seemed to be illegitamite.

And the last update was a link to his DTG diss track posted 4 weeks ago.

He probably could of gotten more support after this.

Oh well.

 

I have to admit that despite initial reservations, I did buy Thomas and Friends and it is a bit of a fun diversion. I don’t think this expansion is worthwhile though. A reskin and three scenarios is just not worth shelling out for. If you are going to do expansion packs in the future, please bring in some of the other engines. A Sodor map would be good also but TBH, with just Thomas and Diesel, it just doesn’t have the feel. As someone who grew up with the original books (The Railway Stories as they were called), Thomas was only one of the main engines, not the main focus of the series as the TV series would have you believe. Let’s have Gordon, James, Edward, Percy etc. Ringo would be good as well but I’m not holding my breath for that one.