Cargoline Volume 5 Nuclear

So Skyhook finally announced it—their next gameplay pack, the heavily speculated one and it might just be me, but IMO it looks ver weird being unbranded; I would've much preferred if they had gone with the DRS 20/3 branding and maybe include a Br blue version of the preexisting class 20 we have in game so it could possibly layer onto more services. Also, if possible, in future gameplay packs, Skyhook really needs to include an actual barrier wagon instead of just using a Mk1 BG. The current setup throws off the whole look of the consist when its on WCMLOS.

 

Am I right in thinking it’s going to be anachronistic in basically any route it’s going to appear in?

 

DRS ended Class 20 operations in 2019. It is anachronistic, but not by much, similar to the white 375/9.

 

The 20s with DRS were all withdrawn from regular service between 2004 and 2016 with only a few surviving for RHTT work until 2019, so yes pretty much. The only route we have set during their usage period is MML set right at the end, and afaik no nuclear transport routes go that way anyway. Today I believe the only Class 20s left in use are on the Balfour Beatty drain train or on railtours.

But what would you have rather the pack feature, another DRS Class 66? Another class which does not and never has run these trains whatsoever? This is the kind of flexibility we must have if we want any hope of having a Class 66 alternative for UK freight, and personally I am 100% here for it and encouraging it.

 

Will the 20 have the updated cab or will it be as it currently is in game.

 

both west coast main lines and MML from what I’ve found in the layers tab

 

Both make sense, just not using the DRS 20s in the case of WCMLOS. From the stock we have available in the game at this time these would be using the older 20s, 31s or 37s.

 

Newer DRS Stadler Class 68 needed for this DLC. Maybe in the future?

 

Nice we could use these on WCMLS and be nice we have a class 73 and 68 DLC to bad we don't have Dungerness also would we have AI layers on Southeastern Highspeed at Ashford

 

This is the cab of 20901, previously with DRS and now one of the two locos on the Balfour Beatty train. Pretty much identical to the old one asides from the addition of TPWS and GSM-R, and some additional secondman seating rather than just having them sat in the opposite cab chair. I believe the /3 units also had some additional units or a cabinet between the two large rear cab windows, but this sort of thing might have been more unique to individual units rather than universal for the whole subclass.



As for whether these bits will just be added to the original or if Skyhook will give it the ROG 37 treatment and remake the interior model from scratch, that remains to be seen. But the main point is that either way the differences wouldn't be too much.

 

Class 20s had unbranded liveries in real life, taken from the discord server

 

This was probably for ease of repairs and maintenance. The first 20s are over 70 years old now, long ago did new parts stop being made. If they needed to replace a bit of bodywork from a parts donor which was probably in a different livery, much easier and quicker to just have the new panel sprayed blue wholesale rather than having to carefully paint or stick on a logo somewhere. In fact, judging by the noticeably cleaner doors right in the middle of a sea of filth and right where the DRS logo likely would have been otherwise, that loco in your picture seems to have undergone this exact treatment. Ultimately the thing to keep in mind is that the Class 20s were the neglected underdogs of DRS's fleet for a very long time, starting when they got their higher powered 66s and 57s and especially when their 68s and 88s started to appear. They really only came out of storage for nuclear flask movement or RHTT, so they only needed them to work, not look pretty.

 

Well if anything, it's realistic In game then going by what you've told me

 

I feel like if no branding was prototypical, it would’ve said in the article

 

There’s literally photographic evidence showing it’s prototypical in this very thread. How much more evidence do you need?

 

The blue is the wrong shade, it looked better in the first teaser shot. Model overall looks good though

 

Wouldn't work on the WCMLOS, but otherwise yes I'd love the 68.

 

That is a post-withdrawal photo

https://www.wnxx.com/images/scrap/index.php?level=picture&id=1336

Although they may have run like that on occasions, I never saw one, always DRS branded.

While I welcome any new packs, without a proper route and era to run these, it does seem rather a pointless addition when there are many more freight options that would fit more neatly with the routes we have.

 

Odds are they only ran like that in their final days when their main use was coming out of storage for a few months every year to do RHTT runs, when like I said they just needed to work, not look pretty. Still how they probably would have looked though if they were still doing the nuclear transport by the time of most of the modern day timetables.

But I'm with you. Again, I question why DRS authorised the license of the Class 66 but not these. Older logo? Not wanting a class depicted that they no longer use?

 

Either way any pack that doesn't include the 66 is a welcome pack in my eyes..First cargo line to not include it

 

Then... don't buy it?
No one is forcing you.

 

You're free to do better with your own team, Tom.
Follow your dreams and start your own! =-)

 

What an incredibly negative approach. There was a similar conversation regarding introducing a Valenta engined HST, which apparently shouldn’t be done either due to the current route options. Anyone with this pessimistic viewpoint should perhaps look at producing something themselves as an alternative to just immediately shooting everything down.

 

Clarification from SHG that this was how it was intended to be, and it wasn’t another case of licensing difficulties ideally

 

Exactly, Im getting fed up of all these arm chair TSW devs. If you can do better, speak to DTG and become a 3rd party, if you cant then you can either buy what is offered or leave it on the shelf.

Criticism is of course valid where it is warrented, but half the time its the same negative people moaning. I did literally laugh out loud on a different thread when a forum member who has claimed repeatedly they have refused to buy anything since TSW3 moan that Peninsula Corridor won't get ported over to TSW6, a release that a) isnt even announced, b) no word on if PC will or will not be ported over & c) irrevelant if said member hasnt upgraded since 2 reitrations ago.

 

You know when people say 'always trust you feelings'? Maybe they're not always right. Don't trust your feeling. Because this has nothing to do with being brave. There are hundreds of reasons why things happen the way they happen. Not saying everything is perfect. It's not.

But people tend to not understand that it takes a lot of effort and learning to even produce a bad product in UE and with simugraph like the 187. This loco is rightfully so one of the most unpopular DLCs ever. And even this project took so much effort, time and ressources that you wouldn't believe it.

Now think about the amount of ressources to actually do a *good* project. And then think about how many months you could survive on your savings and unstable income until your next DLC releases. And then imagine it's not just you, but you have a team of people working for you and demanding their money.

And then you'll see it has not a lot to do with 'bravery'.

 

So you're not willing to give credit to people accomplishing what you can't?
Instead you're going to whine about how it's not what you would have done...which you have proven you can't do?
What an odd way to show appreciation.
You could always just say "it's not for me but I appreciate it exists in TSW for other people who enjoy it." The proof is they haven't even released anything yet and you're already hating it without a product. Not because it's "bad" but because it's not exactly what YOU personally want.
Instead of making it all about you and screw everyone else.

 

Personally I'm looking forward to it, I assume the lack of Branding has come from DRS itself as they probably only want their branding on current locomotives.

Still I can't imagine no one will knock up a DRS livery 20 with this version on Content Creator.

 

I don't think its an overly negative approach to wish the developers would produce enhancement packs for routes and eras we have modelled and not for those we don't yet.

If I was designing an expansion pack for a WW2 game, I wouldn't spend my time developing a Humvee.

 

To me, the branding is a minor problem of what's gonna be a great DLC. A modernized 20 is great and the Addons are beautiful. I believe a mod will be made available for the branding.

 

What's been modernised about the Class 20?

 

It should feature GSM-R and TPWS. Also have newer Euro style exterior lighting as can be found on the likes of the Class 66. The 20/3's main new feature was replaced and modernised electrical components and rebuilt cab windows, you can see that by how square the side windows look compared to the 20/0 from TVL.

 

No doubt there will be DRS branded versions of the Class 20 pop up from the modding community.

 

20308 and 309 at Norwich on a Railtour in 2011. Aside from the lack of Branding, this is how they should look in-game.

 

We shall see

 

Well we can already see the updated lights and square windows so that's a good start.

 

I like the idea of a new loco and that is very much welcomed but it's a very strange choice.

Too late for WCMLoS, Too early for WCML South and ECML, and very close time period for MML and possibly BML & SEHS but not seen on those routes.

Branding wise a mod will change that but with regards someone saying there is literally evidence the refurbished locos were unbranded in service above please check again as the photo in this thread definitely isn’t the modelled style of loco as it still has its discs and not new style lights. (You might as well show a picture of a split headcode 37 or 40 as evidence of how a loco modelled in game should look).

I think the flask wagons will look great behind the older 20s, 31 and 47 on WCMLoS though.

 

Class 68 when?

Hentis

 

Sorry if this has been ask. But will this dlc slot into current timetable or will it a whole new timetable like vol 3 & 4 got.

 

Idk - but I hope it slots in. The appeal for me of these Cargoline packs was making the existing timetables busier

 

The military pack does add to the existing timetable on GWE, although whether the services are included in the remastered timetable or not...

 

Whilst it’s nice to get away from the rapidly becoming boring 66 I have to say that an unbranded Class 20 does nothing for me either even though it’s a nice shade of blue.

 

So the answer seems to be.... not much is different on the Class 20s.
On a forum where people will argue over proper thread counts on virtual passenger seats, it's honestly a non-debate for the casuals who make up 80-90% of the customers.
The bigger, better question to ask is...will it sell?
While the 20 is "not the 66"... it's not "new."
We have it in game already.
A Class 68 would have been a huge selling point.
Now Skyhook isn't into that, which is fine.
I 100% understand why. My question is how many people will spring for rather unimpressive "nuclear casks."
Military pack brought in a lot of people because it was "oooh military!"
Intermodal brought in a certain group who saw them a lot and liked them.
Aggregates had it's own draw.
But those all had some demand.
I haven't heard a huge demand for "nuclear casks."
I could be wrong and it could sell well like the other packs.
Anything for WCMLOS seems to sell ok.
MML okayish.
Three suggestions though:
I think it could have worked on more routes for increased traffic and layering.
The more routes it runs on (given there's a relatively wide window for use. Nuclear fuel has been around for decades.
Given more eras involved, more traction would be good for variety. Even if it's in game, that makes it even easier. Although to be fair the 20s were around a LONG time so.... that still works, but more variety sells more. Even a Class 37 thrown in would be something.
Finally, if you have enough routes it runs on.... maybe someone will pick up on the opportunity and do a Class 68. Could be Skyhook since they are making the 158, so they do have a vehicle team.
If not them, maybe Rivet? I know it's a taboo to say that like Voldemort, but they aren't bad at vehicle modeling and it could be used on their Scottish routes.
We know Skyhook and Rivet work together because Skyhook is making the 158 for Fife Circle so....if Rivet has a free vehicle team they could return the favor.

Again, I could be wrong. It could sell like hotcakes as the military pack has.
I just don't hear/see the hype about it yet.
I think it would be a lot more impressive with more variety that's (relatively) easy to add (modders can make scenarios) rather than the huge investment of a whole new route or loco. I mean, that's the whole idea behind the cargo packs is low risk, high payoff.
However, in this case it's a good opportunity (excuse) to invest in the Class 68 since it fits so well and has been demanded and it works on several existing routes too. While it's not the panacea of a WIDELY used alternative to the 66, it would be a start and would work on WCMLOS, MML (which suits the pack perfectly) , tjhe "Scottish routes", NorthTranspenine Express, Manchester, Airport, and a few that people have asked for (Chiltern is quite popular from TSC) and any route to Southampton with intermodals.

(Note: I'm throwing this in a "Suggestions" thread to avoid derailing this thread. Feel free to comment there! =-))

 

Looks like I'll need to do some comparison shots of the two Class 20s...
Its most definitely not "just a reskin"!

 

Well didn't say that.... said it wasn't "much different."
And it's not.
Different engine?
Different traction motors?
Different cab entirely?
Nope.
Cosmetic changes that don't matter in game.

You are free to list them, but they aren't signficant.

 

This was the best bit of News that came out of last nights road-map Despite it has no release date as of yet the fact that it has a new loco (un-branded) makes it very refreshing still no Car transporters & they do still run in the Uk.

 

Its disappointing to read that months of changes rebuilding a train amounts to 'not much' and 'nothing significant'.
Still, we're confident enough enthusiasts will appreciated the substantial difference of the /3 variant to make the project worth while.

 

In an ideal world this would have come with a little route of its own, maybe Sellafield to Barrow or better still Carnforth. But it seems SHG no longer have any zest or capacity for building routes. A reskinned Class 153 could have dropped in for the passenger services.

Of course that would leave the issue of how to model the secure Sellafield facility, but presumably as the operator has given permission to put the flasks in game a solution could have been found.

But dropping in rather abstractly existing routes does seem a bit of a cop out.

 

I would always encourage anyone who feels their particular itch is not being scratched, to roll up your sleeves and get involved. This is how I got started in the industry 25 years ago and in that time I've helped develop two of the biggest train simulators in the world, along with countless content for them. It's easy to sit on the side and throw rocks. It's more rewarding to make a difference.