June Roadmap Discussion

On the flip side of that, I don't think it's fair to take something that someone has done in their free time, unpaid, as a passion project and then say "well you've done it before for free so now it always has to be free" (or similar)

Not everything has to be some kind of precedent for something. Can't we just have nice things?

 

Sure we can, but I do think it is a little shady. Like a dope dealer, first ones free, until you get hooked then you pay.

Not that I disagee, yes they should get paid and I'm personally not complaining but you have to admit the above analogy is spot on.

 

This is an expression I've never heard before.

 

"Hey, thanks for doing this for free, now you've done it once you have to keep working for free" paraphrased and vastly oversimplified but your equating someone doing favour buy spending their free time remastering a route to a drug dealer giving us "a taste"

if that's the sentiment then I'd rather pay for the GWE remaster than contribute to the sense of entitlement here, sorry that's just how I feel.

 

Again, we don't know for sure though, as their phrasing made it seem as if that is the route that they are going for with the pack. Keep in mind this is just the initial announcement and they're going to get into more detail in a few weeks.

Likelihood is that we're only going to have to pay for the scenarios and are getting a new timetable for free with the HSP46's and Bi-Levels from Boston - Worcester layered onto said timetable (ala Koln-Aachen and the routes' new timetable). Whether or not we have to pay for guard mode is all up for anyone to decipher.

I mainly blame DTG for their phrasing of the so called "pack" if that's the case (they do this all the time), really should just call it "Scenario Pack" instead of a "Gameplay Pack."

Could be wrong though, maybe I'll have to eat my words once more info comes out.

 

They only state it is for that specific route twice in the 1st paragraph. So I don't see where any confusion would be.

Announcing: MBTA Providence/Stoughton Line HSP46 Add-On
A new gameplay pack is coming, that brings the iconic purple HSP-46 from MBTA Commuter, over to the NEC: Boston - Providence, with a new set of gameplay scenarios and Conductor Mode to the route

 

Did you even read the 2nd paragarph?

Can you take a sarcastic joke?

No need to be so woundup. I forgot everyone takes things so seriously on these forums.

Disney humour only.

 

I agree, with a caveat.
They seem to be doing a lot of work to the core, which is something we've all been asking for. And my gameplay is noticeably smoother after the latest patch so credit where credit is due.

I wonder if DTG's resources might be tied up on core fixes, and these small DLC, along with third party routes, is helping keep the lights on in the meantime.

Matt has said that train simulators are a particularly complex variety of simulator. I personally believe him.

 

Maybe if they went back and updated the actual DLC with the already laid track then this might actually be a more immersive route
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/hidden-tsw-the-tracks-that-you-dont-see.75083/#post-735613

Would like to see them look at DLC scenery gameplay packs as well... look what FTF could become especially now when "route hopping" with the S-BAHN! if they went back and revisited it, https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/hidden-tsw-the-tracks-that-you-dont-see.75083/#post-1006774

 

The one update SKW needs is reverb for all those tunnels!

 

Cockney rhyming slang, my old china.

 

I love how you quoted one paragraph of my message and totally missed the final one where I basically answered this.

To summarise, yes we can have nice things and yes remasters can be free, but no I am not saying that the masterminds behind these remasters should not be paid. They absolutely should. The model where a remaster is financially supported by the release of a loco pack has been done many times at this point, and it is a system which undeniably works. Boston - Providence had the Acela. Nahverker Dresden had the Vectron. Glasgow Cathcart had the 380. Even GWE will now have Liam's HST heritage pack. This I honestly believe is the way forward, as it allows us to have remasters to routes we already own and allows those behind that work to see reward for it.

 

I did have those trains in other routes but not everybody would have those other routes. The trains have to exist somewhere and the gameplay pack provided the route with those trains. Other trains that exist somewhere else in TSW don’t get patched into other routes with whole new alternate timetables for free. For it to have been a free patch, players would have had to own the trains in another route anyway. The gameplay will have included scenarios too. I don’t generally play scenarios but they are there. The other pack, with the graffiti wagon, did add a few services as well as the scenarios but it wouldn’t have been much more work than the substitution timetable for the 111, possibly less work. It added fewer services in total. The 111 and n-Wagen have hundreds of services, which is better value, both objectively and subjectively. I can’t see how it should have been free as it gave the player something new, even if they have the trains before (trains themselves are useless without the gameplay), and not everyone will have had those trains anyway remember, and will have taken some work to produce.

 

For me, if it appears as a core route in TSW6, it's a massive cop-out. As an addition it'll be great but there needs to be a new British route in my opinion.

 

I think that depends on a TSW6 version also incorporating some extensions. Whether that be the Thames Valley branches or pushing on to Oxford, Newbury or Swindon.

 

I have noticed a tendency lately by both DTG and 3rd parties to start selling trains that are not really new but very similar variants of trains we already have in the game, and these being sold as new locos prices. This is a slightly concerning trend. I as usual will be voting with my wallet and ignoring these until they go on deep discount.

 

I do wonder if it's getting harder for them to get permission from TOCs to record new trains, especially as the rail network gets busier

 

You don't see any difference in the standard 101 and the expert one?
None?
Hmm...
Have you touched both of them?
Calling a well selling product a "cash grab" is an odd phrase.
Everything a company makes is for "cash."
That's how every business works....

 

The only thing near term I'm looking forward to is the E94.
However, I can see how other people can like the other stuff.
To each their own.
It's a decent roadmap.
Just not aimed at me personally, which is fine.

 

Less work, easier profit. I feel this might be why we won’t see more steam locos or slam door EMUs for a long time if at all.

 

You didn't make your case.
Please explain further.
Why are slam door EMUs "more work" or "less profit" in your opinion?

 

Because they have to be built up from scratch, not copied and pasted in a new livery or some ringdings added to a cab.

 

That's true of every EMU that appears the game, not just slam doors.
What about slam doors makes them harder to make per your argument?
Or alternately less profitable?

 

Sounds are going to be the hardest part, more so than diesel traction where there are generally preserved examples available.

 

The sound of slamming doors?

 

Not necessarily, AP has a catalogue of Southern Region EMU sounds and also brought out a highly sought after 4CEP add on for TSC with appropriate sounds... It is totally achievable, but it's how much work a developer would be willing to put in as there were numerous SR EMUs working together at one time (CIGs, CEPs, VEPs that were around in BR and privatisation years, and the EPBs and HAPs that worked up until April 1995)

 

More so the traction sounds. I mean a door slamming on a Mark One coach is pretty much the same as on a Mark One based EMU. IIRC some of the SR EMUS like the SUBS and EPBs had rather distinctive bogie running sounds too. Quite hollow and metallic. That said, a decent sound engineer ought to be able to synthesise something after listening to reference material. But that begs the question, how much of a sound department do DTG have these days?

 

Good point! However older AC electrics like the 305's or 310's might be harder to source. Though AP did do a nice Dusty Bin 321 sound pack which would do at a pinch.

 

Sounds like a great suggestion if you choose a specific model and do a "suggestions" thread =-)

 

I really annoyed we haven't got any screenshots for All Aboard Route. Was hoping to see more I just hope it isn't one of those routes that will get really delayed..

 

The physics for one. They don't just have a single Go/Stop lever like the modern ones.

 

Sadly you’re probably right, it’s a bit of a lazy approach imo, have they laid off some staff or something?

 

Did Alex lift the lid on the Class 158 Timetable for Fife Circle last night? It has been completely eradicated from the roadmap, is it out but they haven't told us or are we now in the situation where an download will pop up on our consoles/PCs sometime in the not too distant future to notify us of the new timetable?It was finished by Skyhook in early April...what has happened to cause such a lengthy delay? I understand it's an update as supposed to a purchasable DLC but this can't be good going forward. Some transparency would be appreciated..

 

If the doors all animate at once and people jump off like I remember when commuting to Victoria, consoles will explode for sure!

 

I bet if it was paid dlc it’d be out by now.

 

Simple DC circuitry and standard air or vacuum brakes. More complex to use, but not especially challenging to simulate, I wouldn't think.

 

Well soon all licensing can be done via Great British Railways nationalised, so that should be simpler. Come to think of it how about going back to SWR and getting a license for them now via GBR, they can do Waterloo to Shepperton then and actually build a new train in the Class 701.

 

If they release a new steam loco(s) or slam door EMUs for TSW6 I will be happy to eat the biggest slice of humble pie ever.

 

Save some for me! I can’t see steam returning unless a 3rd party bites the bullet, but to ignore a whole generation of slam doors is shocking.

 

I suspect they have been several times over but sadly outwith the DTG low hanging fruit paradigms. Which doesn't leave many other options. Wouldn't trust Rivet with it, SHG seem to have retreated to doing wagon packs and probably not in JT's comfort zone. So those of us who want slam door EMUS is proper fudged it seems.

 

That still doesn't explain WHY though.
That's my original question.
What makes an arguably simpler MU that hard to make?
Or make it less profitaible?
Since I see no reason why it'd be "harder" to make an MU with fewer systems to model and less licensing issues, then to be "less profitable" (ie not "low hanging fruit") then the only other option is you think it won't sell well, leading to lower profit.
The cost to make them would be at or below other more modern EMUs.

 

For DTG maybe it simply comes back to the previously stated (by Matt) that the bean counters above him and these days probably Focus too, won't sign off on anything that isn't modernish. Believe me, fully behind the need to represent this type of traction in the game but ultimately only DTG and their associates can confirm why it is apparently so difficult. Not other forum members.

 

Well that's a halfway backhanded answer.
You could just say "DTG doesn't think it won't sell well."

 

I think it will be...here are 3 new routes for TSW6 and in addition to those routes the long awaited GWE remaster will be joining us on TSW6, so no, but it will be used as a carrot if I was to guess or that could be our UK route?

 

They wouldn’t dare.

 

Did I ever mention the standard 101? No...
For the record, yes I have used both 101s. The expert one is one of my favourite German trains to use, albeit simplified as I don't have the time to really learn the full expert level stuff in a train that's kitted out in a language I don't speak.
"Expert 101 pack" in my comment about the roadmap refers to the new Expert 101 timetable for SKA that's coming, as detailed on the roadmap. On top of that, it was coupled together with the American gameplay pack which flat out is a cash grab and something which should have literally just been a layer.
Also you conveniently missed my several other messages in this thread where I agreed that actually it does have value...

Is the SKA timetable/101 expansion a cash grab? IMO it depends entirely on how much they charge for it. Like I said earlier in this thread consistency is key, multiple new timetables utilising the Expert 101 have been released in the past for free. That being said though, to counter-argue myself, unlike those which subbed in Expert 101 formations in place of other formations that already existed in the standard timetable, this one is a largely reworked timetable and new scenarios. In other words, it's the very definition of what a gameplay pack should be.

 

They'll have the figures and presumably know exactly what is played the most and what sells well.

 

Literally on the previous page

 

What part does the Scotrail 158 have in MAC?

 

Scotrail doesn't actually operate south of Carlisle so considering they run Piccadilly to Glasgow services, I would assume the 158s might be standing in for TPE trains or some other operator.