Thanks Lamplight On that link to the timings, I couldn't see my Blackpool timings. I tried another run this morning with Kolhapur. This may be the same with Leander too, I might try it. The same glitch that I had with the 8f came up earlier in the run, just past Kirkham the pressure gauge hit 375lb. Then the boiler pressure gradually fell back so much I had a service failure. It must be that the green jubilees are more compatible with the route in manual firing mode. I was going to spawn a rescue engine as a pilot, but it wouldn't allow it. I believe something happened to another person on one of the Jubilees , like a boiler leak the whole loco was engulfed in steam. I wonder if a recent update from DTG has created this glitch, as it wasn't happening a week or so before. Can't think it would be related to any layers that I unchecked. . I might try the light engine move with the 8f in the BPO timetable, I haven't tried it yet. I will use the manual firing mode, and see if it plays up. Ok so I did the 8F light engine from Blackpool N. to Preston in manual firing mode. The steam gauge behaved ok, as I ran into Preston and slowed in the platform at the stop marker it said service failure. So I did the same turn again in auto firing mode, this time I completed the run and stopped at Preston. Edit: I can see my run that you added now, I had to turn my phone to landscape mode to see it. Thanks
A run from Saturday 9th November with Jubilee 45681 Aboukir with 8 coaches 441 tons. Blackpool N depart 09.00 in dry conditions. Departing with 20 regulator and 32 cutoff, I eased back to keep to the 15 mph limit. Once past the speed restriction, I opened up to 60 regulator cutoff 20%. A max of 36 mph before Layton station. Layton arr. 09.03 Dep. 09.04 using 40 on the regulator and 18 cutoff, speed steadily rose to 40 mph before the 35 mph-20 mph PWS at Poulton. Drifting into Poulton station at 09.09 and 30 secs. Departing Poulton at 09.10 and 30 secs. With the main climbing ahead I left Poulton gradually opening up to 30 on the regulator, and 20 cutoff meeting the 1 in 473 at 36 mph. Speed slowly crept up and the 1 in 305 climb began at 43 mph, with regulator 35 cutoff 19. The 1 in 305 was cleared at 42 mph. On the easier gradients 48 mph was reached before the 35 mph limit before Kirkham. As the train entered the 35 mph slack, it was briefly doing 38 mph, a slight bit of speeding. Kirkham arr was 09.21 and 40 seconds. Depart Kirkham 09.22 50 seconds. Departing Kirkham the regulator was opened to 36 and cutoff 18 , once the speed rose above 10 mph. The next small climb of 1 in 412 was met at 34 mph, and I left the regulator there until I slowed for the 35 mph PWS at the approaches to Preston. Arriving at Preston at 09.34 and 45 seconds An improvement on the previous times, and a decent run.
andy#3741, your run has been added here. As always, let me know if something is wrong. A very solid improvement from your first run. Only 2-3 minutes behind the real-life schedule, which would still be considered on time here in Germany. I would have been very interested to know what speed you reached before Preston. I tend to favour 16 cut-off over 18 for long, flat runs, but I'm not sure if that's actually better or just a preference. Your starts to Layton amaze me. lcyrrjp and I have not managed to get there any quicker than 09:03:13, but you seem to get there at 09:03 sharp consistently. Very, very well done!
How does one set up the loco's realistically for this? Is it just dampers to 25% or do I need to adjust anything else?
LawrenceNL, principally, it's just both dampers to 25%. As a quick checklist: Make sure you're using manual firing (a setting in the settings menu allows you to choose between automatic, assisted, and manual firing). Put both dampers at 25%. Open the firebox door. (Otherwise, TSW will give you a game over for letting the fire go out.) That's pretty much it
Thanks, I will try my hand on it this weekend (or earlier if I find some spare time). I love steam and I hate how badly modelled it is in this game, yet somehow I haven't tried this amazing thing you guys thought up to make it feel more realistic . I've driven the A3 on SoS countless times, but never bothered to set it up properly... Shame on me!
Best of luck! As our ongoing runs show, it's a lot of fun to do runs in this set-up even if the fundamental physics remain flawed. Word of warning about the A3 though - our set-up only really works on the Jubilee and 8F. The 4F and A3 Flying Scotsman aren't all that much improved by it.
I'll probably run both the Jub and the A3, see how they compare. I'm more of a Pacific type of man so I prefer the A3, such a shame they botched it even harder than the other kettles
Thankyou Lamplight I took some screenshots, I will have a look and see if I got one of the speed near Preston. I don't think it was all that high. Not sure why Kolhapur and 8f had that pressure glitch, but the green Jubs work ok. I think it will take some beating for me to get quicker, still slightly off the pace, I might try another run over the weekend. Reducing the layers has helped around Preston. Not sure if this was the highest speed before Preston Rolling into Preston
So I tried some runs today, with varying results... First of all, it really is fun to do, actually having to pay attention to your gauges and stuff means it's a lot more engaging! After some trying out in the training centre I decided to go for the Leicester-Derby run, as it is not too long, pretty much flat and on a route I haven't played all that much, so I thought it a good excuse to try it out. Test run First I did a test run, using the black livery 45690 Leander with 7 Mk 1's. I used the reference points from the sheet to time my run. Departure time from Leicester was 9:03:00. First timing point: Syston Arrival there was 9:10:00 (I missed the exact time) at a speed of 60 mph. Regulator and cutoff were set to 30/17, and the boiler pressure was around 180. At Loughborough, I passed at 9:17:01, going 81 mph with regulator/cutoff at 60/17 and pressure at 190 At Sheet Shores Jct, I met more restrictive signals than normal, so my speed through the junction was 63 mph (I also slightly messed up my braking). Time was 9:22:56, and the regulator/cutoff (from the moment of releasing the brakes) went from 31/34 > 50/30 > 65/17 (using up some of that excess boiler pressure of 220) I passed Borrowash (or at least, where I think the measurement point is) at 9:26:31, going 69 mph, with a setting of 50/17 and a pressure of 175 On the approach to Derby, my speed was still 69 mph. I finally arrived there at 9:31:58, for a total journey time of 28:58. Top speed during the run was achieved through East Midlands Parkway, at 87 mph. Pretty good run I thought, lets try running the green Jub at the time set in the spreadsheet. I did two runs, because the first one was really not what I expected: Run 1 45684 Jutland + 10 Mk 1's Departure time Leicester: 16:07:30 Syston: 16:14:53; 50 mph; 50/17 at a pressure of 170 Loughborough: 16:22:35; 72 mph; 40/19 at a pressure of 170 Sheet Stores Jct: 16:29:14; 68 mph; 65/19 at a pressure of 190 Borrowash: 16:32:40; 67 mph; 39/21 at a pressure of 175 Derby approach speed: 65 mph Derby arrival time: 16:38:13 Total time: 30:43 Max speed achieved on this run was 78 mph through Parkway Some screenshots from this run: Okay, so that was a lot slower. Yes the train was heavier, but that alone does not explain the timings. The most obvious point was the lack of speed through Syston, which compromised the entire run. So, I decided to go again. Run 2 45591 Udaipur + 9 Mk 1's I went with 9 Mk 1's this time, as the real life timing also had 9 coaches, and I wanted to feel how much difference one coach would make. This time, I actually departed Leicester dead on at 16:07, leading to the following timings: Leicester departure time: 16:07:00 Syston: 16:14:04; 58 mph; 55/19 at a pressure of 155 Loughborough: 16:21:06; 76 mph; 48/19 at a pressure of 175 Sheet Stores Jct: 16:27:19; 68 mph; 64/19 at a pressure of 175 Borrowash: 16:31:27; 66 mph; 50/18 at a pressure of 170 Derby approach speed: 65 mph Arrival (Derby): 16:36:12 Total time: 29:12 Maximum speed this run was 83 mph through Parkway So, a minute and a half quicker with one coach less. Speed through Syston was higher this time, but still below the test run. Also, on all three runs I couldn't for the life of me manage to get the train to accelerate past Sheet Stores Junction. I kept losing speed, boiler pressure, or both, and I have no idea how to fix this. So there are my first experiences with realistic runs. I hope I can get some tips on how to improve my runs from you folks who have been doing this for far longer, as I feel like I'm definetly not doing it properly yet
Oh, I also attempted the run with 1470 Great Northern and 10 Mk 1's (custom formation) but my God does that thing have lackluster performance! I'm guessing my cutoffs were too low as I kept them around 25%, it really didn't want to go far above 60 mph! Anyways, here are the timings and speeds for who cares, reg/cutoff isn't as relevant here as they were wrong anyways Departure Leicester: 8:55:00 Syston: 9:02:10; 55 mph Loughborough: 9:10:05; 62 mph Sheet Stores Jct: 9:17:50; 63 mph Borrowash: 9:22:30; 55 mph Derby approach speed: 54 mph Derby arrival: 9:28:30 Total time: 33:30 Max speed: 66 mph So yeah, a very unimpressive run, I really have to adapt to the much higher cutoff the A3 requires! Anyways, at least I got some decent screenshots out of it:
LawrenceNL, it's great to read that you enjoyed your runs! That always puts a smile on my face I have added them here (run #1) and here (run #2). Let me know if anything's wrong. I think that was some really solid running for your first forays into our runs! I mean, you arrived 1 minute early once and only 1 minute late the other run. You can happily claim to have run to a real steam schedule early on only your second run! As far as driving tips go, we've all got our different approaches and I hope some of the others might chime in here. When I look at your data, your boiler pressure catches my eye. I usually attempt to stay above 200psi for most of or the entire run. Experience has taught me that the Jubilee quickly loses performance once under 200. Two settings I have found or used that give me this are 29/19 (regulator/cut-off) and 40/16. The latter seems to outperform the former on longer, flat runs as far as I can tell. I usually wind the cut-off back at the start just enough to stay on the red 225psi line until I hit 16 cut-off as I speed up. Then, I let her run and she naturally settles around 200psi. That's just me though. It seems you do already use lower cut-offs like many of the other runs, so maybe just a tad more conservative regulator usage? I think that would be my tip. Another small tip I got from lcyrrjp: You can put the small ejector to 30%. This is enough to keep the brakes off but gives you just a little bit more boiler pressure to work with. Might not change much, but every bit helps. As I said, good runs, both of them and I loved reading how you got on with them including the testing beforehand. MML is probably a good introduction to our runs now that I think about it given the relative level running. It's all just trial and error/experimentation for us as well. Very much enjoy your screenshots too. I love the one of Leander's footplate - it's so simple and yet it somehow speaks to me. P.S.: About the A3: unfortunately, her physics are very messed up. I only did one timed run on our ECML challenge and anything lower than 40% cut-off just seemed to not work at all. I think only a 40-50% cut-off range is really viable on her. Same for the 4F as we've been told that the A3 uses modified 4F physics, essentially. It's a shame, to be sure, but at least we've got the Jubilee that's not too far off the mark.
1470 Great Northern has less boiler pressure, and a smaller superheater surface compared to Flying Scotsman
Thanks a lot for your extensive comment and help so far, really appreciate it I'll try the higher boiler pressure next, see if that helps me. Especially on routes with more gradients I feel like I'd need to have that down I'll do another few MML runs before moving on to harder routes I think, just to go easy on myself. As for the A3, I am still gonna keep using it, see if I can figure out how to somewhat realistically run it, just because I like them so much. No matter how bad DTG models it, can't keep me away from the A3! I will try the higher cutoff, although it's certainly gonna be a whole different ballgame compared to the much more natural feeling Jub You're right, of course, but the GNR deserves more credit when A3s are discussed, and the green is just too good!
Best of luck, LawrenceNL! I'm looking forward to hearing how you get on. For the A3, if you'd like to look more into her, there are a few logs giving you an idea of how she should perform, like these two (#1, #2). They don't perfectly translate into TSW given the stopping pattern, but I thought they might interest you. They're from the same website we get most of our real-world logs from.
Always enjoy reading these reports. Please don't mind me sending some greetings from my trip across the whole of Corse with my Mallet E163 in TSC...
On the WCL route there is a service with the Jubilee from Truro to Penzance ( 06.50 IC77) . The timings as far as I know ,are not based on a real timetable from steam days. The challenge I liked was achieving gold in manual firing mode with 25% dampers. If you're familiar with this route, it shouldn't be too much hassle. There are steep climbs, and descents to make the run interesting.
I know many have been looking forward to this (myself included), so here we go. Our first run on JTs' Preston - Carlisle (WCMLoS) based on a real railtour. Preston Carlisle - Jubilee +6 mk1s - The South Yorkshireman No. 8 Source The above picture is actually the exact run we'll be recreating as best as possible. All my information on the run comes from the above-mentioned source as well as Six Bells Junction. 45562 Alberta hauled the short train from Preston to Carlisle with an extended stop at Carnforth in 1967. To save us all from waiting upwards of an hour, I adjusted the timings prior to Carnforth so that the stop is reduced to 5 minutes. This bit of a time reserve might come in handy as my attempt I'll post below will show. Additionally, the tour was not booked to call at Preston but did so anyway for unknown reasons. For this reason, I have only included the schedule from Carnforth while the timings achieved by the actual railtour start at Preston. Without further ado, you can find the TSW-adapted times for your run here. The Setup Spawn at Preston on foot no later than 11:15 for your 11:22 departure. I routed my run from Preston Platform 3 to Carlisle Platform 3, which seemed to work well enough. Spawn a Jubilee +7 mk1s consist and uncouple & delete the last coach. Set your route to Carlisle and prepare the Jubilee as per our usual set-up. No further go-vias etc. are needed. Additional Notes You will likely have to depart Preston a few seconds late and will encounter adverse signals coming into Lancaster and Carnforth. After that, you should have a clear run. I tested the run in the normal timetable with all layers (I think) installed and activated. For reasons my attempt will show, I wonder what the speed limits were like on the Shap Summit - Carlisle section as I reckon we might be going a bit too fast here as per TSW's limits I wish you good luck! If you'd like, join me below for my first attempt.
Onto my attempt. Join me on 45556 Nova Scotia as we climb Shap together. My timings can be found here. Since I did not know how to identify the disused stations Garstang and Plumpton, I didn't note any times for them. Having set up my train on platform 3 in Preston, the first shock came as the signal remained red. I frantically talked to the signaller (i.e. checked the map) eager to have a timely departure. A Class 101 regional had unfortunately been given priority as they needed to cross the points in front of me. The seconds ticked by and 11:22 was here. A sigh of relief was breathed on the footplate as the DMU came into sight and the signal cleared for us. Departing a few seconds late only, I gave Nova Scotia the beans with one of my trademark Blackpool-South-Starts using 20-40 regulator with 55 cut-off (20-40/55). This made the old girl slip a bit but a quick adjustment of the regulator let me catch her. And so we got going on our 2-hour adventure. The running to Lancaster was uneventful. I just set her up with my beloved 40/16 combination for fast, efficient running on the relatively flat track. I must confess that I had a chuckle passing the first neutral section. For all the added challenges of running a kettle, this was one thing I wouldn't have to worry about today. She ran beautifully - there's no other way to put it. I didn't need to bother her and she didn't bother me as we gracefully accelerated more and more hitting an impressive 84mph before Lancaster. That's when the trouble began - double amber. I shut the regulator leaving it only a crack open to keep the pistons warm, put the cut-off in drifting position and start gently braking. Amber. Still doing about 60mph. I start giving her a proper brake application and we slow down to 30mph as we pull into Lancaster. It would have been a beautiful stop had we actually been booked to call there. As I pull up to the red signal, yet another 101 crosses tracks in front of me. Probably a Leeds - Morecambe service. The signals clears before we come to a full stop. Finally home free, I think. Then: double amber. Right. Since we're only doing about 40-50mph at this point, I just shut her off again and coast. Amber. I come to a stop at the next signal protecting the junction from Carnforth to Morecambe. A quick check of the map reveals a 101 heading from Morecambe to Lancaster and n Up freight on the mainline. Nothing that should impede me as far as I can tell. A few minutes pass and the freight train comes in sight. Around the same time, my signal finally clears. Perhaps the freight had crossed over somewhere in my way or maybe I had caught up to a Down train that just happened to clear the block at the same time. Either way, I finally pulled into Carnforth for my scheduled stop a little more than 2 minutes early. Good thing I had included the time reserve at Carnforth. I didn't need it but the signal checks did make me feel uneasy. At Carnforth, I left the footplate and got another cuppa while some passengers complained about a fence or something in their way. Unruly bunch never satisfied. With a fresh beverage and a rested loco, we started the climb up to Shap Summit. Compared to previous runs, the climbs were surprisingly comfortable since they had frequent breaks and you could get a good run up for most of them. I got her up to about 60mph give or take before the final stretches into Oxenholme started taking their toll on my speed. A trusty 40/16 maintained its use for the high-speed climbs here. Following Oxenholme is when the going gets really tough but the light load made it manageable. I watched as the speed ticked down on the way to Tebay but with no adjustment needed, I still didn't fall under 30mph before hitting the flats around Tebay. Only briefly had I switched the cut-off to 20, but the flats immediately followed and I returned it to 16 to make the most of the run up for the final climb. The final climb up to Shap Summit gave me flashbacks to the Palatine on PFR as the speed ticked away at an alarming rate. When speed fell to 30mph again, I switched to 20 cut-off for its good performance on low-speed climbs. And sure enough, this helped stabilize the climb but we were still losing speed. But what we were also doing was closing in on the summit. So, I gave her 60/25 and she gained speed again on the final stretch reaching 31mph shortly after the summit with the boiler somewhere around 175psi if memory serves. The last miles are relaxed going downhill. When we reached Harrison sidings, I could finally shut her off for pretty much the remainder of the run apart from some short bursts. We were doing about 80mphs here. I managed to make up quite some time then compared to both the actual run and the timetable, which makes me question what the speed limits were in '67 (and the stock used in the tour). I stuck to a 90mph limit for my run. I had seen a log with a Black 5 doing 82mph downhill, which is why I thought 90 might be the right ballpark. Well, I pushed on accepting that I might be running faster than the railtour would have since I had committed to the 90mph limit at this point. I braked a little too much for Penrith and undershot the speed limit. Then, it was just a few miles of easy downhill running into Carlisle. I gave the last two neutral sections another smirk and soon found myself pulling into Carlisle - about 16 minutes ahead of schedule. A truly invigorating run lay behind me. It felt good to spend this long on the footplate. I even would have liked to go on with the tour but alas, this is where I had to leave it for another crew. Of particular interest to me is the section Carnforth - Shap Summit. Usually, our TSW Jubilee underperforms compared to real ones on heavy climbs, but here, she kept up and even beat the real run but just barely making her performance seem closely matched all things considered. Of course, we don't know exactly how they were running in real life (did they have adverse signals? adhesion problems? what speeds were they doing?), but still, I felt really good seeing the timing in this section so closely resemble the real run. Spoiler: Shap Snapshots In warm, midday sunlight, Nova Scotia leaves Preston for her long run to Carlisle. "What is this bloody fence doing here? And why is the gap so large?" Well, that's what you get for time-travelling a railtour to a year it didn't run in. I invite you to look at the real picture of the railtour in the post above again. I couldn't figure out exactly where it was taken, but I tried my best to find the spot in TSW and recreate the shot. This is what I came up with. Nova Scotia has finally reached the summit. The heavy climbing is over, but she must still put in work to get up to speed again. Nova Scotia rests in Carlisle just like the 08 behind her. Her day isn't over, but she's earned a few hours of rest.
You've broken the ice on this one, I haven't dared to try Shap with steam yet, best I could do so far was a Class 52 . I was wondering though, would the setup at all work with double heading? Or would the train locomotive just immediately switch back to unrealistic settings once you take control of the pilot? Edit: the manual has all of the sites of lost station accompanied by screenshots, if you want to time Garstang and Plumpton as well. Garstang is quite easily identifiable as the station house is still there and modeled. Plumpton is a bit harder, but it has some modern warehouses and caravans which should be easy to notice once one has the location down.
I think so. If you check the overview page on the spreadsheet, I did post a run from Derby to Leicester (Up Palatine) on MML that had 2 Black 5s in reality and I had substituted 2 Jubilees in TSW. I think it all worked out. Thank you! I had only skimmed the manual and must have missed this. I’ll certainly have a look and try to catch them on my next run. All the photos on that website are brilliant. I had a lot of looks at the collection of PFR photos. Not only are the pictures pretty, but the added background information is interesting and often a good start for research (in my case often for steam runs for this thread).
Asking because I've seen pictures of double-headed trains over Shap, I just can't seem to find timings for them I really want to try it out and see how much difference a second loco makes, but without irl timings to compare there's no fun
Found this run that (MAYBE.) could use Scotsman in it. It’s the 1:45PM Glasgow - Liverpool Service Interestingly a Clan was pulling it here is the log https://locoperformance.tripod.com/edition06/72001prs.htm
It’s a really interesting run, with the Clan unable to keep to the schedule. I’d been planning to set it up here as a challenge a couple of nights ago, but when I saw how long it took to complete the journey I realised it would have to wait until the weekend! I’m certainly going to give it a go, though - as well as attempting Lamplight’s challenge, above.
Last night I had a go at Lamplight's Preston - Carlisle challenge. By the time I'd completed it I didn't have time to write it up (aren't these steam trains slow?) so I'm doing that tonight. The timings for the run are on the spreadsheet, here. At Preston, I prepared 45624 'St Helena' for the hard work ahead, and the signal cleared promptly. I must have requested the route a few moments earlier than Lamplight (or maybe those chocolates I dropped off at the box a few days earlier finally paid off), as I got put ahead of the DMU which delayed that previous run, and we passed it, stood at the red, as we departed. From the off I chose to prioritise boiler pressure over power, so acceleration was moderate as I kept the needle hanging just below the red line, settling down to 26% regulator and 19% cut-off (26/19). The results, on that initial moderately-graded section to Lancaster were almost identical to Lamplight's run - 84mph maximum near Bay Horse, then brought down by signals to a crawl through Lancaster as a DMU crossed in front, then again - this time to a stand - just short of Hest Bank. I couldn't see anything ahead causing this second delay - could it be that the level crossing gates are not being lowered in time, for some reason? Regardless, it didn't prevent an early arrival into Carnforth, and a bit of time to prepare for the real challenge. Once again I stuck to my policy of holding pressure as close as possible to maximum, settling again at 26/19, and after the initial steep but short climb out of Carnforth it took me to 64mph in the dip before Milnthorpe, where the real work begins. Slowly but surely the speed bled away on the steepening grades, and we were down to 47mph at Oxenholme - identical to Lamplight but it took me 39 seconds longer to get there, as Lamplight's more aggressive early acceleration paid off. By Grayrigg we were down to 29mph, but the gentle descent from there to Dillicar took us to 72mph as we stormed the bank with pressure high, and optimism to match. Through Tebay, though, we'd dropped more time to Lamplight - 1m16s behind now - and beyond that, as we hit the 1 in 75, speed began to drop away, and doubt crept in. I edged open the regulator and cut-off bit by bit, fighting my losing battle to sustain power output, but by Scout Green my dreams of storming the 4 miles of 1 in 75 so fast that we were over the top before speed or pressure could drop too low, were long gone. By the last mile we were down to 24mph at 45/26 and only the easing of the gradient close to the summit got us up to 32mph over the top, with boiler pressure down to 150psi. There could be no disguising that it had been a poor climb, and our time from Carnforth to the summit was 59 seconds slower overall than Lamplight's effort with 45556. From there we made a fast run to Carlisle, and made the time back up - probably mainly due to a rather quicker run through Penrith, though some slightly hair-raising braking for the 20mph PSR at Carlisle may also have helped! A note to all - by the time you enter the 75mph PSR, you need already to be down to no more than 60mph with the brake applied, otherwise you're not going to comply with the 20mph! Inexplicably it seems Mr Stanier omitted to fit regen brakes to his Jubilee. This was a thoroughly enjoyable run, albeit I felt my strategy of maintaining high pressure at all times, with the aim of using it up on the last 4 miles of 1 in 75 to Shap, did not work out. Lamplight's more aggressive approach worked better, and no amount of fast down-hill running disguises that! On the plus side, it was really pleasing to more than match 45562's 1967 attempt, when we had feared that our 'restrained' Jubilee might struggle to match the real thing on the climbs. I think it highlights once again that steam engines (and Jubilees in particular, I understand) are highly variable in their performance, and we shouldn't get down-hearted when we find a real-life run we cannot match - on another day, with a loco which steamed less well, it could have been very different.
A gradient profile is always helpful in planning your run - particularly with steam. This is from 'Gradients of the British Mainline Railways' published by Ian Allan.
I thoroughly loved reading your account, lcyrrjp. A great story of struggle and eventual success despite setbacks. Thank you for your praise of my run. As I’ve alluded to before, I think the Blackpool South run really helped me learn how to get a lot out of the Jubilee for starting and it seems that it paid off here as well. I was quite surprised at how ‘effortlessly’ I got up to Shap, so I find it somewhat comforting that your run was more of a struggle, if you know what I mean. Comparing our climbs, it was Carnforth - Oxenholme and Oxenholme - Tebay that you lost time but actually regained some on Tebay - Shap. Carnforth - Oxenholme might well have been down to my aggressive starts. For Oxenholme - Tebay, perhaps the 16 cut-off (which, I’d like to credit again, I initially got from your PFR climb) actually has an edge for the high-speed climb? For the last section to Shap, it seems your more aggressive cut-offs have paid off compared to me. I like to stick to my 16 as long as possible but the lower speeds we reach on this section probably favour higher settings. On the downhill run to Carlisle, you truly put my run in its place going from one minute behind to one minute an ten seconds before. In my defence, the rapid gain on the original railtour made me hesitate. Instead of pushing on as hard as I could, I did it more like you would in real life - we were well on time so I shut her off and let us roll downhill and if that meant going 80 for a mile or two before another downhill bit accelerated us back to 90, then I just let her roll like that. However, the Penrith miscalculation didn’t help my run, certainly. I can only reiterate what you say about the approach into Carlisle. It’s very treacherous with the intense gradient and the 20mph limit sneaking up (at least if you don’t know the route well). It’s bad enough on a tap changer with rheo brakes but on a steam loco with vacuum stock, it really demands that you’re on your toes. As you say, it’s so great to have a run in which we both now have closely matched the real climb of a Jubilee. Steam locos are fickle things and I also recall reading that Jubilees were particularly remarked as varying in performance. I was certainly overjoyed seeing the timings match up. Lastly, great minds think alike. I had two shots from Carlisle, the one I posted with the 08, and one exactly like yours focusing on the van. I love that we complemented like that by chance
I finally managed to find some time to do a run due to an unexpected afternoon off today. I decided to do things a little differently, however. With two runs now in the books, and seeing a lot of contemporary pictures from Shap and its surroundings with double-headed locos, I decided to go and find out how much difference a 2nd loco would really make. To compensate, I increased the amount of coaches to 12. Here is what I ran: 45726 Vindictive as pilot engine 45678 De Robeck (my favourite Jubilee after 45665 which we unfortunately do not have in TSW) as train engine 12 x Mk 1's (consisting of the standard 10 coach consist with an additional BSO and TSO added to the back) Total train weight 655.5t Departure at Preston was slightly too late, as I was texting my fiancé and managed to miss 11:22, departing at 11:22:53. Unfortunate, but a 53 second delay isn't too bad. I also managed to pass in front of the DMU that delayed Lamplight slightly, so easy runnings. Up to Garstang, the acceleration with the two locos was great. Absolutely 0 issues, even with the heavy train. At Garstang, I noted the following details Time: 11:34:32 Speed: 78 mph Pressure and settings: 210 psi; 35/16 Pre-Lancaster I decided to push the train a little bit over 90 mph to make up some of the time I lost at Preston, hitting a max of 93 mph before restrictive signals ahead of Lancaster forced me to slow down. A DMU passed in front of me at Lancaster, which led to a red signal and the following info at the station log point: Time: 11:43:42 Speed: 18 mph Pressure & settings: 225 mph, with power off The run to Carnforth was very smooth. I had no restrictive signals at Hest Bank, passing it at 11:48:10 at 62 mph, and actually messed up my braking slightly, going quite slow at the approach. I stopped at Carnforth at 11:53:01, 12 minutes ahead of schedule. This gave me plenty of time to visit the station cafe, paying tribute to Alan Walker before heading back to the train and waiting for 12:05 to arrive. Departure from Carnforth was very messy, with De Robeck wheelslipping whilst Vindictive refused to move. Lower cutoff (less than 30) eventually fixed the problem, but we were behind of schedule again... On the climbs to Oxenholme, the advantage of having 2 locos started to show. I hit a max speed of 62 mph, and managed to avoid dropping too much speed. I passed Oxenholme at 12:22:37, slightly behind the other two runs in this thread thanks to the messy start, at 46 mph, with a pressure of 200 and 40/18 power settings. Not too bad for a first steam climb I recon! Now for the hard part. As I've briefly mentioned, this was the first time I tackled any sort of gradients with a steam loco in TSW. So, I was very anxious about pressure. That, in combination with (I think) the heavy train outweighing the benefits of two locos, made my climb up to the Tebay flats quite messy. I passed Lambrigg Crossing at 36 mph, but less than a mile later that was 33 mph, with me anxiously trying to gain speed back with 25 cutoff. I managed to avoid dropping below 33 ahead of the flats. This left me with slightly less pressure than I would've liked, but with easier terrain ahead that didn't matter much. I went back to 40/16 (a setting I've come to love after tips from here, so thanks!) and thrashed the train through Lune Gorge. I passed Tebay at 12:39:48, at 72 mph and with 200 psi pressure, running 40/16. The climb to Shap was a hard one, with the heavy train really working against me. At the summit, I was only going 26 mph (having dropped to 24 just before), with 160 psi and running 60/25. The run down to Carlisle was fun, but fairly straightforward. I did get caught out by the speed limit at Harrison, overspeeding to 84 mph and braking back to 77. I managed to pretty much nail the speed limit at Penrith, running through it at 12:59:26, coasting at 74 mph with a pressure of 225. Just before Plumpton I oversped again, forcing me to brake from 94. This did lead to me running perfectly at 90 through Plumpton (at 13:02:54), but I messed up the braking and dropped to 83 some distance after. Braking up to Carlisle went pretty okay. I was doing around 52 mph at the 75 mph limit, causing me to reach the 20 limit going 21 o). I eventually came to a stop at Platform 3 at 13:13:28, after a run of 1 hour, 50 minutes and 25 seconds. So, is it much faster to use two locos? Maybe, but not when also adding 5 coaches to the train, as my time was ultimately almost the same as the single loco, 7 coaches timings run before!
Your descent from Shap to Carlisle was much more realistic, and if I attempt this run again, I’ll do the same. I wonder whether you can (sensibly) do the whole of the last 30 miles without ever opening the regulator? I suspect so. The real test is Carnforth to Shap, and that’s where the main interest lies, I think. As well as the right balance between regulator and cut-off, I’m wondering what the optimum boiler pressure is for continuous climbing. A higher boiler pressure - as I employed - theoretically maximises potential power output, but it also means lower regulator/cut-offs are needed to maintain pressure. Is it better to allow pressure to drop to (perhaps) 200 psi in the initial acceleration, and then hold it there, rather than close to the 225 psi maximum? Does that actually enable higher sustained power output? l always tend to err towards maintaining pressure for the last part of the climb, but if that costs acceleration in the early stages, does it mean losing time throughout the whole ascent to that point - which cannot then be recovered however good that final assault? There’s definitely more time to be found in this hill-climb, I think.
Great run and account, Lawrence - I enjoyed it very much. So does 2 locos with 12 coaches amount to the same thing as 1 loco with 6 coaches? It sounds as if overall performance was quite comparable, but there were some details which were more difficult with 2 locos, such as the start from Carnforth. I’ve done very little running with double-headers so I’ll have to give it a proper go. A minimum of 33 before Grayrigg was particularly impressive, and the fact your boiler pressure was lower at that point did not seem to prevent you achieving a comparable speed through Tebay - further confirmation, perhaps, that a more aggressive approach works better than my conservative attempt. I do hope, though, that your lovely fiancé will eventually come to recognise the true priority of marriage - a right time departure from Preston.
Not sure if 2 locos and 12 coachs = 1 loco and 6, I can imagine the weight doing something on gradients that makes it not completely comparable. Felt like that atleast. I am planning on doing more runs when I find the time to see how they compare. Not sure who can edit the sheet, but if this run can be added to that maybe that would make comparing easier, also for other people maybe wanting to attempt a double header And yeah, she is not yet fully invested in my train sim shenanigans, something to work on
Hi Lawrence. I've updated the spreadsheet. Your run is shown here. Your overall running time being around 5 minutes quicker than either of the previous 2 attempts appears to be mainly because you didn't get stopped at signals at Hest Bank. I'm not sure how you managed that, as you approached at roughly the same time as Lamplight and I did on our runs, and we both got stopped! Aside from that, your times were similar. I couldn't see a passing time for Shap summit in your description, but the times on either side suggest a comparable climb To me the thing that actually stands out the most in the comparison is your maximum of 94mph before Lancaster - a fine effort, and by far the fastest yet.
Cheers! I guess the signals at Hest Bank might have to do with the moment one puts down their path, I spawned at 11:10 and put it down rather early, so I imagine that might have given me priority there. Passing time for Shap was 12:47:57, I forgot to add it I see, stupid me! As for the top speed, I just decided to ignore the 90 mph for a bit to see how fast I could go, was quite thrilling to do (and loud!)
Interesting account of running with 2 Jubilees, LawrenceNL. I have added the Shap passing time. I would guess that 2 locos with double the weight would perform similarly although with diminishing returns (increased friction, resistances, etc.).
Carlisle-Preston - Jubilee + 10 mk1s This challenge is based on the schedule and log mentioned by tomtrainboi#1289 above, taken from Brian Basterfield's 'Locomotive Performance' site, here. The schedule is timed for a class 7 locomotive, but on the date of the recorded run a 'Clan' was in charge, which is a class 6. Not unexpectedly, therefore, it struggled to maintain the schedule. The Jubilee was initially classified as a class 5, and later re-classified as a class 6 for passenger workings. It can be expected, therefore, that it will not be capable of keeping to schedule, and even matching the Clan may be a struggle - an interesting challenge. The schedule includes intermediate stops at Penrith, Oxenholme, Carnforth and Lancaster. The log included numerous passing points. I've included the ones I think most useful in terms of assessing the run and also in terms of how easy they are to spot! The schedule spreadsheet is here. Passing Points The passing points can be located as follows: Wreay - 5 miles from Carlisle, the former station building is still there, on the Down side (see picture, below). Plumpton - 13 miles from Carlisle, on the first flat section of the route (it's all climbing up to there), at the South end of a goods loop on the Up line. There's a warehouse on the site of the station, on the Down side. Thrimby - just over 7 miles after Penrith, shortly after the commencement of an 80mph permanent speed restriction. Once the restriction commences there is a left-hand curve, then a right-hand curve. Thrimby is at the end of the right-hand curve. Shap Summit - easily identifiable by the gradients, but the flat section at the top is quite long. Take the timing point as being as you pass the brick building stood on the Down side. Grayrigg - at the electricity sub-station on the Down side, near the end of the freight loops on both up and down lines. Burton & Holme - 8 miles after Oxenholme. The station building remains, on the Up side (see picture, below). Hest Bank Level Crossing - 3 miles after Carnforth, where you briefly run along the coast. There's a footbridge as well as the Level Crossing. Brock - 7 miles before Preston, at the overbridge (see picture, below). Set-Up I recommend starting in Free-Roam, as (from experience) if you use timetable mode and set the route all the way from Carlisle to Preston, you arrive at Preston to find a queue of trains blocking your way (caused by your route setting up too early). Any platform on the 'Up' side of Preston station is fine. You need to put a way point in the platform at Lancaster (otherwise it will route you by the through-road). If having AI traffic around is important to you, try initially setting up the route only as far as Lancaster, then, on arrival there, setting a new route for the last section to Preston (this also prevents the need for use of a way-point). This may prevent your route being set for too long and causing the queue of trains at Preston, although I haven't tested this. Line Speeds and Station Dwells For most of the run you won't get near the line speeds, so any changes from the 1960s to the 1980s aren't a concern. The main exception is the downhill run from Shap to Oxenholme. I don't know the 1960s line speeds, but I suggest to enable comparison we work to a blanket 90mph maximum, and observe the posted 1980s line speeds where they are lower than that. Similarly, I suggest we observe the 2 minute station dwell times (i.e. don't use the station stops as an opportunity to make up time). In reality with a long train of slam-door stock - and very probably parcels to load and unload from the brake van - I suspect the dwell times were rarely shorter than that. This challenge involves, I think, the longest run so far - well over 2 hours. I look forward to hearing how you get on.
Preston - Carlisle - 1st Attempt I set up my first attempt at this run to be in summer, as I reckoned identifying the passing points was going to be difficult in the dark! My running times are here. 45630 'Swaziland' was in charge of the 10 Mark 1s, and we departed Carlisle on time with the first climb, to Penrith, ahead. I wasn't careful enough in managing the boiler pressure in the initial acceleration out of Carlisle, and in the early part of the climb I had to be conservative in my cut-off and regulator settings to regain pressure. That done, I settled down to 38% regulator and 22% cut-off (38/22) and speed on the long section of 1 in 131 balanced out at 29mph - 4mph slower than the Clan achieved. This, combined with my poor start, meant we'd dropped nearly 2 minutes to the Clan by Wreay. The easing of the gradient allowed us to get up to 34mph through Southwaite and 41mph at Plumpton - 3mph slower than the Clan, and now over 4 minutes behind. A final push, using up the last of the boiler pressure (down to 150psi) got us up to a maximum of 47mph before Penrith, where we arrived just under 4 minutes late. On departure from Penrith a flatter section enables some initial acceleration, but after that the hard slog continues with a long 1 in 125 climb. At 35/21 speed balanced out at 26mph (5mph slower than the Clan), and only the flatter section and a final push to use up the last of the pressure before Shap took us over the summit at 34mph. The climb from Penrith took 28mins 5secs - four-and-a-half minutes longer than the Clan, and now over 8 minutes slower overall. Once over the top we made a fast run down the other side, with a maximum of 90mph through Tebay, although I didn't open the regulator on the flatter section beyond, and speed dropped to 67mph through Grayrigg. Arrival at Oxenholme was 1mins 24secs behind schedule. After Oxenholme I used 29/21 and, on the falling gradients, we touched 84mph before Burton & Holme. Arrival at Carnforth was just 31 seconds late - and with a start to stop time of 13mins 6secs which was over a minute quicker than the Clan. The flatter gradients beyond Carnforth made for harder work. We touched 50mph at Hest Bank - almost identical to the Clan, and a time just a few seconds slower - but my handling of the approach control for Lancaster was imperfect, and arrival was nearly 2 minutes slower - and 3 minutes down on schedule. The final section to Lancaster was particularly interesting. It starts with a ferocious 1 in 98 climb (19mph at the top) but after that there are gently descending gradients. Using 36/21 we got up to a maximum of 68mph through Brock (8mph faster than the Clan) and a clear run into Preston gave us an arrival 6 minutes behind schedule, but less than 2 minutes behind the Clan. It should be noted, though, that the Clan had longer dwell times at Penrith and Oxenholme (while I observed the bare 2 min station stops). Overall, the Clan's combined point-to-point running times were over 4 minutes quicker than mine. It appears that the Jubilee cannot match the Clan on the climbs, but on the flat and on descents it's a different matter. On the descent from Shap to Oxenholme comparison is difficult because the Clan was on time and ran very gently. However, on each of the sections beyond Oxenholme the Clan dropped time - so it is reasonable to assume it was worked hard - and on these sections the Jubilee achieved better times, aside from time lost on approach to Lancaster, which was more a reflection of my driving (and possibly changes to the signalling arrangements between 1961 and the 1980s?) I think that the 2 minutes needed to arrive at Preston before the Clan, can be found. As well as Lancaster, my braking for a couple of the other stations was cautious (I had no idea where to start braking for Carnforth!) and I also didn't manage the initial climb out of Carlisle very well. Also, I didn't run as hard as I could have between Tebay and Oxenholme. Whether it's possible to find the 4 minutes to match the Clan's total point-to-point timings I don't know, but I think it just might be. An on time arrival at Preston involves finding just over 6 minutes, and I think that's impossible while observing line speeds and station dwell times - but I'd be pleased to be proved wrong!
Your timing is impeccable, lcyrrjp. I wanted to do a Christmas Special and was thinking about running the Preston - Carlisle railtour or maybe even JTs' railtour when you dropped this run. So of course, I immediately had a go. I did want to use Rivets' festive rolling stock initially as a cute Christmas-themed run, but let's just say I discovered some issues with the festive Jubilees specifically that would have hindered my enjoyment of the run. Thus, join me on St Helena as she desperately tries to fill in for the Clan. A disclaimer before we start: I worked her hard, and I mean hard since I had seen the struggles of the previous attempt and wanted to get everyone home on time before Christmas. Did it work out? Well, only one way to find out. My timings are here, but I'd advise you to treat yourself and only check after the report The start in Carlisle was hectic. I had arrived for my shift 10 minutes before departure but when the issues with the previously assigned Jubilee became apparent, the whole station was abuzz while St Helena was prepared to take over instead. Still, we departed right on time at 16:10 with my typical Blackpool-South-Start: start with 20 regulator, 55 cut-off (20/55), increase to 40 regulator as wheelslip permits and pull the cut-off back to around 16-20 so that pressure stays at the red line. This allowed a speedy start quickly hitting 20mph. Of course, that wasn't to last though once the harrowing climb started. After a confident start, I watched as St Helena began to struggle. From 18 cut-off, I wound back to 20 in hopes of stabilising speed. This had the desired effect as speed was steady around 28 but dropped to 26 along the way. We hit Wreay at 29mph and only a minute behind the Clan, which filled me with confidence. We pressed on to Plumpton. I alternated the cut-off between 16, 18, and 20 (all with 40 regulator) depending on gradient, speed, and pressure. My goal was to maintain as much speed as possible while keeping the pressure above 200psi. On these climbs, I had a maximum speed of 36mph and never dropped below 30mph before the flats around Plumpton finally gave us a breather. My trusty 16 cut-off got us through Plumpton doing 41mph and just shy of 3 minutes slower than the Clan. Not bad for our girl, I thought. The climb to Penrith wasn't any easier though. We managed 45mph before the climbing started again and dropped to 40mph during it. At these speeds, I stuck to 16 and 18 cut-off. Eventually, the climbing eased and we managed 50mph before stopping at Penrith at exactly 16:43 - 2 minutes late and 3 minutes behind the Clan. Unfortunately, the climbing got harder still. Pulling out of Penrith was comfortable enough but then the gradient picked up again. As I watched speed settle around 26mph, I had to increase the cut-off in a way I usually wouldn't. 20 cut-off is usually the maximum I use for climbing, but the heavy load and slow speeds permitted 22 cut-off (with 40 regulator). This meant that pressure dropped ever so slightly below 200psi, but it was necessary. We passed Thrimby with the same 26mph exactly 3 minutes slower than the Clan. Given that I had set off 2 minutes after it, that meant a minute lost again, which didn't surprise me. On the last leg to Shap, I used 16, 18, 20, and 22 cut-off all as I judged appropriate given the gradient and state of the loco. For the last great climbs, 22 cut-off was the way to go. Shap summit came in sight and we managed another exact timing, this time 17:13 for Shap summit. Now 6.5 minutes behind the Clan, I didn't let up. With this delay, all thoughts of economical and conservative driving were out of the window as I used 40/16 to push us down the hill faster and faster. The landmarks started flying by. I did overbrake for some restrictions, but that was the gamble I took. Pushing her to the limit downhill promised to make time but also means that you need to brake hard immediately, which is easy to mess up. Most embarrassingly though was my Oxenholme stop. I have to admit that it snuck up on me. After some hard braking, I realised it just wasn't enough and I had to throw the proverbial anchor out and slammed on the brakes. Some coaches might not have stopped exactly at the platform, but I'd say I was just giving everyone a pre-Christmas workout by having to back through some coaches to alight. On the plus side, this meant I was on time - half a minute slower than the Clan but a whopping minute before schedule. I'm sure the passengers forgave me the slightly unorthodox stop in light of that. Just as long as they don't tell on me! Despite having caught up now, I kept pushing St Helena hard curious to see how much she's got in her. Still giving her full power downhill, we were sprinting along and even pulled ahead of the Clan - a minute faster through Buton & Holme - and arrived comfortably, if not rested, at Carnforth 20 seconds early (40 seconds ahead of the Clan). Another speedy, Blackpool-style departure had us on our way to Lancaster. I was aggressive in tackling the approach control but not unreasonably so. I was doing about 30mph a little before the final AWS magnet, which was also when the signal cleared for me. The approach control had put me behind schedule again but judging by the numbers, the Clan seems to have suffered the same fate as me. With an almost 2 minute late departure, I gave it my all again. For the brutal start out of Lancaster, I initially went for 22 cut-off again but even that wasn't enough. So, I used 25 cut-off. Afterwards, the route levelled out, but that only meant more hard work to get up to speed. The gradients didn't do me any favours here. Since it was mostly flat, I stuck to 40/16. Since we were behind again, I pushed as far as I dared into Preston only braking hard as late as I could. It was a speedy arrival into the points at Preston, perhaps even a few mph too speedy at first, but barely worked out in the end. I would certainly not approach the station this briskly again. We pulled up to the platform and stopped at 18:25:38 - 2.5 minutes late but almost 2 minutes ahead of the Clan. Well, what a run. I am amazed at what the old girl managed to achieve in the latter half of the run. Maybe it's even a pointer to locos in TSW having varying performance as was hypothesised at points? Still, my timing should realistically be more 18:26 or even 27 given my outrageously bad Oxenholme stop and slightly fast approach into Preston. I absolutely enjoyed the long run though. It really feels like an accomplishment to pull into Preston after 2+ hours and the early hardships. Thanks for putting the run together, lcyrrjp. And with that, I'd like to wish all our participants and readers an early Merry Christmas! Spoiler: Come on, you didn't think I'd leave without sharing pictures, did you? St Helena and her crew prepare for a difficult run on a cold September morning (Yes, I actually set the same date in TSW for fun). The first climbs are already behind her as St Helena tackles the next climb out of Plumpton. An enthusiast eagerly stuck their head out for this capture of St Helena pulling out of Penrith. There's something about trains on bridges - especially with the setting sun. After some very hard running, St Helena finally pulls into Preston. And with that, a Merry Christmas to you all!
Fantastic run, Lamplight. I was in the middle of a suitably loud and chaotic family Christmas when I read it so didn’t have time to comment. Looking back at your efforts on Birmingham - Lichfield on the other thread finally reminded me that I’d never come back to this one! A really interesting run. You seem to gain a big chunk of time over me in your initial acceleration from Carlisle (the ‘Blackpool start’!) whereas our times from Penrith to Shap Summit were almost identical. Overall though I only really stayed in touch time-wise because you had to await time at Oxenholme and Carnforth due to arriving early! Your fast approach to Preston sealed the deal - a great effort to beat the Clan, which I wasn’t sure was possible. I love the picture of St Helena at Carlisle (a viewpoint from which I’ve watched many hundreds of trains depart in my life - albeit mostly behind 86s and 87s). The window-hangers perspective of the departure from Penrith also brings back memories. A belated Happy New Year!
London Euston - Milton Keynes (Loughton Sidings) - Jubilee + 8 mk1s The WCMLS route always felt like a tricky one on which to do a steam run, given that the station at the Northern end of the route serves a place which did not even exist when steam in the UK came to an end. Sure enough, it does make a Southbound run pretty much impossible, as there was no station to stop at to give the standing start. A Northbound 'start to pass' run, from departing Euston to passing the site of the future Milton Keynes station, is possible however - and happily, Loughton sidings (which were located just North of the site of the new station) were regularly used as a timing point by recorders of train performance. Our benchmark run for this challenge was recorded by Brian Basterfield and the full timings are available on his 'Locomotive Performance' site here. The schedule was of the 14:10 London Euston - Birmingham New Street, which on 29th September 1958 was worked by Jubilee 45709 'Implacable' with 8 coaches. As usual, I have transferred details of the schedule and the run to our spreadsheet, here, so that we can make our own attempts and compare them directly. The schedule was first-stop Coventry, so passed Loughton Sidings at speed. There are several other runs with Jubilees on the website, but this is the only one I can find which did not have its running affected by any Temporary Speed Restrictions South of Loughton Sidings. If you want to give it a try, set up the route in Free Roam (I suggest a 14:00 start), spawn a Jubilee with 10 coaches in any platform at Euston, then uncouple 2 coaches from the back. Press 9 and right-click on your train on the map, then set its destination as beyond the end of the platforms on the Fast Line North of Milton Keynes Central. I found the route automatically set itself to Fast Lines the whole way, and waypoints were not required. Line speeds (in so far as they affect you) were in line with those represented in the game, except that from where the 90mph speed restriction at Leighton Buzzard commences the line speed was 80mph, and that limit continues all the way to the end of the run at Loughton Sidings (Milton Keynes). I suggest complying with this 80mph limit for comparison purposes, both with the 1958 run and with each other. With the exception of the climb out of Euston, the gradients on the route are not particularly steep, but they are long. You climb almost continuously for the first 31 miles to Tring summit, and your ability to accelerate and then maintain good speeds despite the rising gradients will determine whether you keep to schedule. Gradients of around 1 in 330 may not be noticeable with a modern Pendolino or EMU, but they certainly are with a steam locomotive, and the hard work as far as Tring is rewarded with the opportunity for fast running once over the summit - if you've maintained enough steam to take advantage! This gradient profile is from the excellent "Gradients of the British Mainline Railways" by Ian Allan. Just after passing through Milton Keynes Central station there is a road bridge over the railway. This is where Loughton Sidings were located so take your passing time from there. As usual, the challenge is to complete the run with the stated load without using more than 25% dampers (front or rear) at any point, to keep our Jubilee's performance as realistic as possible. Good luck! Jubilee 45717 Dauntless drops down onto its train at Euston, 12th April 1963. Photo by David Christie.
London Euston - Milton Keynes (Loughton Sidings) - First Attempt For this run I had 45614 'Kenya' with 8 fully loaded mk1s. My timings are on the spreadsheet, here. We made a right time start, and I reduced the cut-off quickly, conscious of the low initial line speed and the need to maintain steam for the long climb to Tring. With 32% regulator and 19% cut-off speed balanced out at 21mph on the initial steep climb up Camden Bank. Once the gradient levelled out we gained speed steadily, the exhaust echoing off the walls of Primrose Hill Tunnel, and I eased the regulator back to 26% to keep pressure high. By Willesden Junction we were doing 57mph - 6mph faster than 'Implacable' on her 1958 run, when she had (noted by the author) made a less-than-vigorous start and dropped a minute. Even with our more aggressive effort we were 6 seconds down on schedule, and it was already clear this was not going to be easy. On the level section beyond Willesden Junction we touched 61mph, but at Brent Junction the climbing begins again. At this early stage of the run I chose to sacrifice speed to maintain pressure, left the regulator at 26% and cut-off at 19% and speed slowly dropped away, down to 56mph though Harrow and Wealdstone (an identical speed to 'Implacable', but the faster start meant I was now 1m38s ahead of her) and 53mph through Carpender's Park where the line levels out, with even a short descent soon after. We took advantage, up to 63mph through Watford Junction, but 'Implacable' had been doing 67mph at that point, and was eating into my lead - now 1m20s. Now came the longest part of the climb - unrelenting for the 14 miles from Watford Jn to Tring. Initially I left the controls untouched, and speed dropped away - 60mph through Hemel Hempstead ('Implacable' was doing 65mph there) and down to 57mph approaching Berkhamsted. At that point I opened her up to take advantage of the pressure I had maintained - first to 38% regulator and then, for the final section to 55% regulator and 22% cut-off. Pressure duly plummeted - to 150 psi over the summit - but it had done it's job in stopping the loss of speed. 57mph was our minimum, creeping up to 58mph on the short level section through Tring. There 'Implacable' had breasted the summit at 62mph on that autumn afternoon, and she was now just 33 seconds behind me - and I was 29 seconds down on schedule. Now on the 1 in 333 falling gradient, speed rose quickly - first to 70mph, then 80mph - and we touched 84mph before the speed restriction at Leighton Buzzard caused us to ease off. Through there at 83mph - a touch over the limit on the curves, but 'Implacable' did the same, and I was now just 12 seconds ahead of her! From there I adjusted the the regulator to hold speed at the 80mph mark. We went through Bletchley 17 seconds behind schedule, and at Loughton we were still 5 seconds ahead of 'Implacable'. So, we just beat the 1958 effort, but didn't quite manage to match a pretty demanding schedule (measured passing Bletchley, as there is no scheduled passing time at Loughton Sidings). Is it possible? I certainly think so, having come so close with a first attempt, but I'll be interested to see the efforts of others. I also have to hold my hands up to running a fraction above the 80mph line speed for part of the section from Leighton Buzzard to Loughton Sidings (as recorded on the log). I aim to be more compliant next time, so that's a few more seconds I need to find before that point. This was a highly enjoyable run, and it was very satisfying to see just how similar our adapted Jubilee's performance was to the real thing. We gained time with a faster start, but couldn't quite match 'Implacable's climbing capabilities (although we weren't far off). Would a gentler start enable a faster climb and an overall quicker journey time, I wonder? If you do want to give it a go, please provide your running times here, and I'll add them to the spreadsheet. Good luck!
lcyrrjp, I do think you’re being a bit humble. I’d say you matched the schedule very nicely indeed. Great job on your run! As always with a result as positive as this, I’m thrilled to see our TSW Jubilee run similarly enough to the real deal. I don’t have much to say on your running as I’m not familiar with the route (yet). The prospect of gentle, but long climbs intrigues me though as I’ve found that aspect on e.g. MML or BCC quite enticing. I do own WCMLS (you’re not selling me another route this time! ) but I’ve never installed it as I wasn’t much interested in it. Work is keeping me exceptionally busy right now, but when I find the time, I might download WCMLS and have a go at this. In the meantime, I’ll watch with great interest if someone else also wants a go!
