Shg's Update Of Their Us Content Is Minimal.....

So, Skyhook games finally announced what their patches for some of their QOL updates that were coming, and their 2 US routes are barely getting anything.....


Just the new track shadow improvements to both routes, nothing else. Would of been nice to see something more than JUST the track shadow fixes.

Link to the article with the info.
https://skyhookgames.com/train-sim-...uUWETSDkma3azjOWbg_aem_3SDxB3rM8V01e58TZ0TkHA

 

And?
What did you expect?
For free?

 

And?, they could at least give us basic tsw 3 standards like new lighting etc, like god damn I would complete both routes fully if they had that

 

You should be glad that anything is improved with these old routes at all. Most older routes get no second look.

 

Track shadow improvements isn’t exactly something you should be glad of. Like seriously what’s stopping them from giving both routes basic tsw 3 Standard improvements so new lighting. There’s no point in adding better shadows without the new lighting

 

Those standard improvements are not simple and basic buddy. It's a complete overhaul of the lighting and updating every single asset and light baking to look proper in the new lighting. It's not something that just happens in a day. They would also need a full time staff member to work on those changes

 

No tod4 lighting?

 

I would expect them to look at themselves in the mirror and do whatever is needed to make the routes half decent.
Not the bare minimum that passes for "doing something" in this day and age.

 

Because based on what they said back on the February Roadmap, it looked like this update would of been more than just a track shadow update....


This could of easily just been dropped in a normal patch and called a day. Either that or their wording made us expect too much.....

 

Then there’s no god damn reason to add track shadows, it’s a waste of resources if they are not going to update to Tod4 lighting and also they have only been making loco/wagon DLC packs for only a year where they could spilt up the team to have half on new stuff and half on fixing and improving their other routes which would sell better with the new lighting

 

I thought they would have added tod4 and new scoring system as well or was that too much to hope for.

 

Do the people ranting apply the same principles to their life?
Do they go out of their way to do things for free for everyone else at the expense of their paying jobs?
Most of the "remasters" are being done as passion projects by individuals, not by companies.
How many of you are willing to pay for the time and effort it would take to update all the "old stuff?"
Very few if any.
Now, I've floated the idea of doing new DLC to go WITH remasters and remodeling of older routes to defray the costs and get new customers buying that stuff ("rediscovering" it) but so far, that hasn't been popular either. (Oakville DLC and remaster in Suggestions area)

As the adage goes, you get what you pay for. If you pay nothing but expect "upgrades" then that's on you.
The car dealer is not responsible to "upgrade" your car with new tires 3 years after you bought it.
Neither are they responsible for adding features to it not there when originally built (LED headlights, satellite radio, etc)
You bought the car as is at that time.
Honestly, how is this any different than you buying a car and years later still driving it?
My other related suggestion besides "new DLC bundles" with a remaster....is to re-release them at a discount.
Some have been re-released in superior format (LIRR, IOW, etc) and have been criticized for having to "buy them again" but I think that's not a bad plan if they offer a discount to have the old route. It wouldn't be a ton of money, maybe $5 for just a lightning/features update, more if there's any extra track, extra assets, or extra layers.

The bottom line is that you have to be willing to give something if you want something extra. Otherwise you end up with more "disposable" culture. Just like buying cheap Chinese knockoff that you throw away when it breaks... you get what you pay for.
If you don't maintain your car or your house... it falls apart.
But that maintenance costs money.

If it's not worth you paying for it... then it's logically not worth it to you to have the improvement right?

 

I do volunteering in my free time but that doesn’t matter ,they worded the updates in February as something more than a god damn track shadow improvement which doesn’t exactly work without a tod 4 lighting which has been a Standard feature from tsw 3 onwards and should be extended to updated content.

Honestly this game is held back by people thinking we should be happy about just a simple track improvement

 

Is it?
Or is it ruined by people demanding something for nothing?
What improvements do you want and what are they worth to you in dollar terms?
That would be a far more useful discussion.
Give them something to work with.
Be part of the solution.

 

Fool they would make the money back from people actually buying the route because of the better quality and hell I wouldn’t mind paying for branded stock if it could give the routes new lighting.

You take me as someone that would force another person to pay for a life saving organ transplant, (uk based), you just fail to see how much money they would actually make from adding basic quality of life standards to old routes, routes more people would buy if they had the better lighting

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect more than just track shadow implementation. Midland Main Line got 2 years worth of major improvements for free.

 

Yep and just look at all the other improvements for the wagon packs for free

 

Wow, so many personal insults for simply asking you to pay for something you personally want. How about just answering the question instead of again deflecting? I didn't ask what "other people might pay" I asked what you would pay for added value that you would personally use.

It's very simple.
a) Either you won't pay anything... meaning it has no value to you.
b) It does have value for you, but you're just being cheap.

Your medical example is odd because I'm guessing you wouldn't suggest that doctors and nurses work entirely for free.

The guess about "people might buy the routes" is just that... a guess. It may be true. However, you can't prove it.

That could be a bonus incentive, but not enough to take people off a paying project for a "maybe" on an old route.

We know that new routes sell.

We don't know that "TOD 4 lighting" is enough to push someone into buying a route they wouldn't have bought otherwise. That's very different. Especially when you don't put enough value on it to spend a penny on it.

If you won't... why should they?

 

You overlooked the fact I said I would pay for wagons/ a dlc to fund this update, like the class 380.

the medical point wasn’t linked to the doctors but it was linked to fact you would refuse to give up a part if it would save someone else if they weren’t willing to pay you for that part, going off your logic.

I honestly don’t get why you people think we should have to pay for improvements for a routes that is like 3+ years old and already in a mid state

I’m guessing you also wanted us to pay for the free liverys we got for the class 87

 

i would gladly pay some money for an todv4 (remaster) upgrade to the old routes

 

How much?

 

Me too

 

So it's selfish to not give what.. a liver? But it's not selfish to demand other people work for free for you so you can enjoy something for nothing? There is no responsibility for them to do any additional work for you. That ended when you bought the route. It's not on them. it's just something you WANT in addition but don't want to pay for.

Again, if I sell you a car, 3 years ago you can't come to me and try to shame me into paying to "upgrade" that car for free. It's an old car. PAY someone to upgrade it and you can get it upgraded. They aren't expecting you to keep driving it... the company is "expecting" you to BUY A NEW ROUTE. Just like the car company "expects" you to buy a new car eventually when the old one wears out.
Maybe you aren't meeting their expectations and are being "selfish" in their eyes?

You did pay for the 87 liveries with the route.
Again, you don't understand what "free" means.

Look, if you want to keep going around where you pretend not to understand what I'm saying or pretending "obligations" exist where they don't it won't solve anything. You want what you want.

However, if you want to be PRODUCTIVE and as you said find something you'd pay for that includes a remaster.... you've basically agreed with my point. So... find something you'd bundle with the routes to make it profitable for Skyhook to do.

What would you pay for to add to Cane Creek?

What would you pay for to add to Horseshoe Curve?

What layers could be added?

Would any small extensions be included (like Southeast High Speed?)

Would new scenarios add value?

What about US cargo packs?

Make some positive suggestions.

Make it a win-win for everyone.

 

People just want improvements to content they paid for it's not that deep and doesn't require an essay

 

^ it’s not rocket science

 

I love how clicking ‘show ignored content’ on every other thread shows the same person with their exasperating rants just wanting to argue with everyone.

Surprised the mods are still allowing it at this point.

 

Apparently it does if the simple principles aren't understood in fewer words as above.

 

No.
You're simply selfish and unrealistic.
That's not difficult to understand.
I was simply trying to nudge you towards something more productive for the benefit of others and maybe not have to call you out on it directly, hoping you'd get the hint.
Sorry for being nice.

 

You being nice?,

you are just some dude that loves sucking up to companies or at least that’s what it seems like

and what is it with you and going after my opinions in different threads?, I don’t see you do it to other people with the same opinion as me.

 

So the free update that added extra liveries for the 87 wasn't free because you bought the route? Have I read that right? Surely that defeats your argument because a TOD4 update has logically already been paid for when you bought the route.

 

Presumably, the track shadow improvements were a simple enough process that the cost could be eaten, while TOD4 is more complicated, and thus costly, to implement. I'm sure that everyone involved would love to put perfect visuals in the game, but at some point a business has to draw a line and stick to it.

Here's Matt on TOD4 upgrades:

And the link to the full thread:
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/what-is-involved-in-upgrading-a-route-to-tod4.72830/

 

Or... just explaining to you how business works and you don't like it because it doesn't agree with your personal opinions on how others should live their lives.

 

Never read such a load of pony in my life.

 

You mean the route that is still new, still being bought and making them money?

It's basically the difference between supported and unsupported products.
Windows 10 is still supported.
Windows 7 is not.
Are you going to demand that Microsoft keep supporting Windows 7 forever because you don't want to move to a newer product?
What about Windows 3.11?

It depends on if they judge it worth it.
MML is Skyhook... they are working with it. They are making money on it still.
Cane Creek?
How much do you really think Cane Creek is generating in sales today?

You are accidentally highlighting WHY they aren't getting updates.
Because they're not tying into anything new.
US freight isn't really popular among developers right now.

Compare that to the MML that came out from the same company in TSW 3 with those other routes.
There is a lot of new content being sold that ties into MML like cargo packs and layered rolling stock.
Thus it makes sense to keep it current as it's a money maker (and tying into Skyhook's own other products)
It still has value.

What is NEW tying into Cane Creek or Horseshoe Curve?
New rolling stock?
New layers?

Nothing.

That's why you're not getting updates.

And that's why I was trying to be NICE by asking the critics politely what NEW could be added for a win-win?
What could you release that would be DLC for or layer into Cane Creek or Horseshoe Curve to make it worthwhile?

If you can't think of anything.... that's your answer.

What's why MML is being updated and current and the other two aren't.

I'm sorry you don't LIKE that they're not popular routes and they don't tie into anything new.
It doesn't make anything being said "mean."
It's just reality.
If you aren't willing to pay money in, and you can't suggest anything to involve those routes...they're probably going to quietly collect dust so much other video game DLC.

You're only going to be disappointed barking up the wrong tree and demanding what is unreasonable. Why not focus on something positive? Like Windows 7, the routes are still usable. They're just as functional as they were when they were released. You aren't losing anything. Keep playing them if you like. Just don't expect Microsoft to put time and money into Windows 7 to be upgraded to compete with Windows 10. That'd be silly.
Same thing with Skyhook.

 

I see you've spent a lot of time and effort understanding the point and formulating an educated response with evidence.

 

Evidence? On the internet?! Are you mad?!!!?!!!!????!!!!

 

Fun fact: no update = little to no sales,
With update = huge new market of sales from people that held off for buying it or new fans that want them but don’t like the old lighting

Game Business 101, you update older stuff and people are more likely to buy it,

 

But if they're already getting no sales.... what do they lose?
Compared to keeping people working on Cargo Pack 6 and Cargo Pack 7.....

You do what's profitable. You don't update for no reason based on the hopes of someone on the internet who already said they don't want to pay for the update.

 

Mate
The people who love us freight content and have been requesting it since tsw 3 since that’s most recent route for us freight, there’s ton of demand for the older routes to be updated and then that makes a new market for us freight content which would probably be as bigger as the demand for steam content, hell I’m not even the biggest fan of us freight content but even I can see how many want it, just check the suggestions

look for them (the company) it would be like a 3 to 6 month job for big profit, going off the demand for us freight content

 

Doesn't Cane Creek still have some issues with floating rocks and incorrectly positioned bogies on the locos?

Doesn't HSC still have issues with dynamic braking physics?

Those I would regard as outstanding bug and quality fixes which should most certainly be delivered as part of the original price paid.

 

You keep saying "big profit" but can't say why that would be true when it wasn't "big sales" when it was new.
Compared to the actual big sellers like Cargo Packs.
"I want it to be true" doesn't make it true.
That's especially true when they are getting a synergy of MML sales and Cargo Pack sales.

Again.... since you keep ignoring it... what additional content would you add for Cane Creek to make it worthwhile?

You have yet to come up with a new idea, just keep repeating what amounts to "I want it" over and over.

You won't get more sales for an unpopular route than it originally had.

They're investing in Cargo Packs and MML.
It's paying quite well.

You'd have to suggest something that would be even more profitable.

Cane Creek isn't it.

 

You'd think they'd at least fix the vegetation turning into glowing crystals...

 

Oh yes, forgot to add that to my list above. Well at least they'll now have shadows...

 

Well I guess the potholes under some portion of tracks will remain forever then, on HC.

 

Probably no substantial updates.
Not unless there's something new to sell that ties into them.

To be fair, Run 8 has a very nicely done route that has much improved assets from the older Run 8 stuff and has a lot more to do on the route. It's still "sandbox" unlike TSW, but a lot of the US freight players on PC may have gravitated there.

I can see benefits to both depending on what play style people like, and TSW is a lot more polished but there's a lot more content on the Run 8 version.

A lot of the PC players for US Freight are over there now.

 

Your point is both irrelevant and worthless to me personally.

Ignore List.

 

That's hardly "basic", it's probably one of the biggest changes you can make for a route and I would suggest there's a reason that TOD4 upgrades have come with remasters which either coincide with a DLC release (Cathcart - 380, Boston - Acela), are part of a 2.0 version (LIRR, SEHS) or are done by single developers in their own time (WSR, GWE).

 

Basic in the way of its the standard of tsw nowadays I don’t remember saying it was easy to do

 

If Skyhook say “improvements based on player feedback” and name certain routes but then no improvements based on player feedback are made to those routes (and there is a long list of reported errors and bugs they could have fixed - great feedback from us) then it isn’t surprising that people will be upset and voice that on the forum. I don’t think anyone should be making excuses for the devs. It’s poor communication at the very least. Everyone can read what they said and it doesn’t really match up with what they did on those two routes. It doesn’t really matter how long ago people bought them or how old the routes are. Skyhook specifically said they were looking at their back catalogue, and that means their old content. People have been waiting for fixes for those two routes and Skyhook gave players false hope of finally having some of those fixes but then they didn’t do anything of the sort.

 

There are almost no light sources in all of Cane Creek to re-bake. It's all out in the middle of nowhere.

Nor can they be bothered to fix the AC4400's wonky truck; and the ES44 in HSC will continue to have weird dynamic brakes (ruining the point of the route)