Gwe Remaster: Appreciation And Discussion Thread

People should stop putting the onus on the player and his hardware. That may work to some extent for PC's, but if a game developer aims squarely at the console market, as DTG has done, then the inability to make its product work optimally for the top of that market is a failure on the part of the seller, not the buyer.

 

I'm not a developer, so maybe it's a dump question, but why is the whole timetable loaded into memory? Why can't it be read from the SSD of current gen consoles and PC? The SSD's are pretty fast nowadays.

 

DTG Liam Thank you so much for the work you're putting into this, and your engagement with the community in the meantime. GWE is a classic and I can't wait to run it again.

 

It’s largely on us for allowing ourselves to be made into the perpetrators for simply having the best hardware available to us, and not holding DTG to account.

 

We've only got ourselves to blame for not having Gen 10 or Gen 11 consoles yet haha

 

TSW clearly performs worse than equivalent games on all systems. Ignoring that is nothing more than a rejection of the truth.

That's a massive misrepresentation of what GTA6 really is. It's by far the most (justifiably) demanding game ever made. No game comes even close to comparing.

 

Or a NASA super PC with a RTX8090 card needing a 3000 amp PSU.

A good game developer looks at optimising across the widest range of hardware, within reason otherwise they will end up with a very small customer base. In fact for a very specialised niche such as train simming absolutely essential.

 

The explanation that TSW is more intensive than a 'normal' game is plausible to an extent. However, it's used as excuse for any kind of poor performance in the game. Train Simulator runs better most of the time (with better anti-aliasing) despite only being able to use one CPU core.

I did spend a bit of time developing routes for TSW and one thing I was told was not to use 2D trees, under the instructions of DTG. Whether this is true now I don't know, but most modern TSW routes (where the performance issues are most noticeable) don't seem to use 2D trees when they really should. Route developers seem to pay little attention to performance and put loads of detailed scenery far away which must be a large cause of the issue. The volumetric clouds and fog are likely culprits. They can look good, but I haven't seen many games where they work well and even less where the performance impact is justifiable. The AP Weather EP uses 2D skyboxes and looks better most of the time, whilst having no performance impact at all.

Unreal is known to have consistently bad performance but I'm sure competent developers could do something to improve it. Could adaptive tessellation help? Billboarded grass rather than the semi-3D stuff we have now? Replacing the 3D sleepers with semi-3D ones like those in the AP Track EP?

 

If you say so but I disagree….not sure how you can say with any certainty that GTA6 is ‘by far the most demanding game ever made’ unless you work for Rockstar?

 

Look at the trailer.
Not only is the detail in the world the highest in any Rockstar game (and likely any game ever), the game has ray-traced global illumination and (presumably) ray-traced reflections. Have a look at any technical analysis of Trailer 2 and it'll be quite clear.

 

It seems strange if DTG are not doing LOD transitions from 2D to 3D. It's quite standard practice to save resources.

I've noticed other things being rendered, including light sources for buildings completely out of sight that you will never see because of being in very long tunnels. Only noticed because of the camera clipping through the tunnel wall.

The niggles of Unreal Engine like particular stutters or freezes can certainly be overcome, and have been in other games, in the hands of the right developers.

I haven't seen lighting handled so badly in other games, either, or weird LOD transitions like you see with the 3D trees obviously changing shape.

There's a lot wrong and it isn't because TSW is a simulator. Many other games simulate many physics elements and deal with complex animations and complex game systems. At the end of the day, a simulator and a game is a series of floating point calculations; a simulator doesn't use some unique form of coding.

 

Any idea, when is the remaster releasing?

 

not yet. Sorry.

 

Speedtree is used for trees in TSW which has inbuilt LOD, but perhaps they aren't using it
https://docs8.speedtree.com/modeler/doku.php?id=lod

 

They certainly need to revisit this because even this website talks about smooth LOD transitions, which TSW doesn't do. It's the worst LOD handling I recall ever seeing in any modern software.

 

It's been a bit quiet recently but rest assured things are still nicely ticking away in the background. Some really cool things are being worked on...

 

You cheeky teasing sod! I'm craving the remaster at this point!

But in all seriousness I'm sure the wait will be WELL worth it and appreciate everyone working on this project. Looking forward to it VERY much!

 

How much longer man im getting itchy for it now LOL . Take your time man.

 

Where’s JD when we need him

 

I'm less excited for it now with the very real possibility of a reduced...sorry, Standard Timetable for Console users.

 

He is Beta Tester

 

Ok this is the one thing I'm rlly excited for lately. Most of the other content for tsw this year for me has been pretty meh but this looks promising

 

Sorry, but Im beginning to think this is just ‘vapourware’ at this point…

 

I’m even more excited now! Liam’s work is fantastic, and I’ve seen if before - but I haven’t had a chance to see/use yours currently as I’m on console. Seems like a collab of some of the most formidable individuals in the train sim world

 

I still think it'll be a TSW6 release at this point.

Probably one that will have to be paid for as well.

What DTG say and what they do are two very different things.

 

This will definatley cause blurry textures if that isn’t fixed by then on consoles.

 

Should I buy a new PC or not?

Lately, roads have been consuming more power than a nuclear power plant. I have 25 fps at medium quality, while other more demanding games have 3X more...
DLSS?
Optimization?
DirectX12?
Vulcan in the worst case scenario?
In short, I already have this road, and to be honest, a remaster doesn't interest me at all. Doing the same thing 1000 times over bores me...

 

Of course you should , at least for the sake of many other games - it doesn't end on TSW)