Poll: What Loco Would Be The Best Class 66 Alternative In Tsw?

Let's open this up to the forum as a whole and has out the best "Class 66 alternative" to add to game.
Not just because you want it personally...but what makes sense as a solid TSW asset?
What would be suitable (realistic) for the most routes in game?
Total built, years of coverage, best licensing options, etc.
These are the ones I could find on wikipedia that seemd to fit the same general role as the Class 66 and would fit in a similar timeframe. (Diesel powered, similar horsepower, similar traction, etc)

Please vote and please explain your reasoning behind your choices.

Possible class 66 alternatives

Loco Total built Service Years Notes

Class 55 22 built 1961-1982

Class 56 135 built 1976-current

Class 57 33 built 1998-current Rebuilt Class 47s

Class 58 53 built 1983-2002

Class 59 15 built 1985-current Basically early Class 66 variant

Class 60 100 built 1989-current

Class 67 30 built 1999-current (similar to Class 66)

Class 68 34 built 2013-current

Class 69 16 built 2020-present (converted Class 56s with internals of Class 66)

Class 70 37 built 2008-current

Class 88 10 built 2015-current (version of Class 68 usable with OHLE)

 

Love my br side but I have to go for class 70 because there’s no other locomotive for modern uk freight in game at the moment.

the 55 is a very close second

 

i do not care any of the above would be fine since it is something new

 

I want to see the Class 99 with both modes simulated.

 

It was close, but my top pick is the class 88. I think having a bi-mode loco would be the most interesting, and it could later probably be turned into a class 68 without too much effort for a Chiltern, TPE or Scotrail route. I think it would add the most options out of any on the list.

My other two close choices were 70 and the class 55, the class 55 however has less routes where it could be used.

 

Ok a few things
Class 55s were express passenger locomotives withdrawn some 15 years before the first 66 was built, so no idea what they're doing here.
57s were used for container services by Freightliner for about 3 minutes before they decided to standardise on 66s. Getting licensing for an appropriate route would be a nightmare unless it's in its current role as Night Riviera haulage.
The trouble is the class 66 is the first truely universal freight loco we've had since the likes of the 37s and 47s. The rest tended to have specific uses and specific areas. 58s, for example, rarely if ever went north of the Midlands; currently, 60s tend to be in the north with GBRf (I don't think DB use theirs any more); 68s and 88s (on freight) spend most of their time on the WCML running out of Daventry towards the north, 70s are operated in small numbers by Colas, not sure if FL still use theirs, and when was the last time you saw a 67 in the wild?
Additionally, 66s replaced many of the classes you've listed - 56s, 58s, 60s, as well as 31s, 33s, 37s, 47s, 86s and some 90s. There's a reason they were nicknamed The Red Death.

So, to answer your question - none of them, unless you want a list of different classes.

For what I'd like to see though, I'd like 56s, 60s and 70s as a priority, though not much for the 56 or 60 at the moment.

 

I'll take anything but the 66.

 

We should start at the very beginning with the mighty Class 01.

 

67’s weren’t really built as freight locos but as replacement passenger locos geared for 125 MPH operation.

Likewise a 68 while very welcome is more of a passenger loco.

My personal choices would be either a Class 56 or 60 both of which would be at home in a semi retro or more contemporary setting.

As noted, use of the Class 70 has declined.

In truth as someone else pointed out above for something modern at this point I would nominate the new Class 99 as it looks an absolute beast.

 

All of them!

 

CL68/88, 99

 

I didn't include that because it's never been in service yet.
It wouldn't be appropriate for any route in game.

 

That's the problem, ClumsyPacer.
Modern freight in the UK is kinda boring because it IS the Class 66 doing most things in real life.
The game is just reflecting real life.
So we have to get a bit "creative" to add variety like DTG does =-)

Points are taken however.

The 55 I put on the list because it's so often requested. Although yes it would require opening a hardly ever used era (1962-1982) so it might kick off a renaissance and open a whole new group of machines and routes. Probably not, but it does seem like an "empty" space on the timeline of UK railroads for not just TSW but most rail sims.

The 56 and 57 are doable, even if limited in service. Again, being "creative" because of lack of rolling stock The 57 shares much of the 47 so it'd be pretty easy to make.
The 58,59 and 67 are there to make a complete list, but I know they're a bit too close to a "66" for most people...then again people fight over minor features all the time (a different number of carriages or different livery and people pretend they are totally new trains)
The 60 at least had 100 built which is rare in modern UK times.
The most interesting I think are the 68/88 which are used on freight but again limited (ie "get creative") It could be used on "nuclear trains" authentically too, and open up some new routes. You can reuse the basic design for both and add duel mode and tri mode operation.
The 70... limited but asked for a lot and again "get creative."
The 99 I didn't include because it's never been in service. It's still in "testing." No routes are built for 2026 and future, so it won't go on any of them yet. When it's in service in 2 years, then it can be added for TSW 7 or TSW 8.

The 66 does most everything in real life, but people only want "realism"... until they don't.
=-)

The comments are very helpful though!
Keep suggesting!
And If I missed any valid ones actually used in the UK, let me know.

One thing that I can mention (that is the opposite of the post but related).... what about European use of the 66? I know it's called "overused" in the UK, but it actually could layer on some routes in Europe as it has served there too on occcasion (France, Germany, etc)

Kinda like the 47 on Semmeringbahn.

 

Contrary to most players it seems, I don't dislike the Class 66, ubiquitous though it may be. On most routes where it appears, it's a welcome relief from all the electric toy trains that typically dominate.

Perhaps its American provenance is another reason.

However, it would be nice to see some diesel alternatives ( I don't much care for electric freight haulers. ) But that would mean going back in time, something only JT seems interested in doing.

I don't expect to ever see any new UK diesel freight locos from DTG.

Passenger you say??!! Ah that's different. Let's have a Class 50, some more 52's and a 55. But who's going to build them? Again, probably not DTG. They've already said they don't sell haven't they.

 

Choose the class 88 because on electric Routes if your electric mode doesn't work just drive on diesel power. Although you will have this issue sluggish acceleration for a Modern Diesel electric Freight it's another train simulator classic locomotive that isn't in game class 70.

 

No need for a poll. It's already been decided.

 

Class 70 for me as it looks the part and I see quite a few at Watford Jct on the WCMLS.

 

For sounds, well the HSP46 on the MBTA routes is kind of similar so could probably be remixed if the developer couldn’t get access to the real thing.

 

I'm not too fussed about having the 66, we just need more VARIETY!! European imported 66s, or the bug-eyed headlights, with the differing cabs as well alongside their liveries. That's what I want, considering you don't really see anything bar a 66 on freight workings since they are so common.

 

Well I’ve been spotting at Watford Jct twice recently and on both occasions I saw 70’s and 90’s so that’s not really true. I see 90’s on the North London line as well. When the GBRF 99’s come into service they are going to pop up on a lot of lines with AC as well. The 66’s are at the end of their life pretty much and have reached their zenith now.

 

In terms of future proofing, and in case a GBRf license can be acquired, a Class 99 would be perfect. They're the first UK bi-mode that can actually compare to a Class 66 both in electric and Diesel modes, and there's a pretty good chance there'll end up being quite a few more than thirty produced. Would probably be a pretty good fit for a lot of future UK routes, and, with some artistic license, could also slot into some already existing timetables.​

 

Considering the last 66 came in 2016 (not even 10 years ago!) and pretty much all of their 59 cousins are still in service, I think the 66s are far from the end of their working life.

 

When it finally enters service, I'm sure DTG will start using it.

 

If this is the middle of their life, then we have another 25 years of Class 66 to go. =-)

 

Class 66s will be around for quite a while. There aren't enough replacements for them to be phased out yet.
GBRf has just regeared and renumbered some of their 66s allowing greater torque, better acceleration and higher load capacity, although max speed is reduced from 75mph to 65mph.

 

I was just quoting a documentary I saw on YouTube about the new GBRF 99’s coming in.
It’s not just a case of their age it’s the fact that the technology is outdated and very heavily polluting according to what was said. The new 99’s will run on AC which makes them far better in most of the main lines in the UK. They do have a diesel back up but that runs on veg oil. 66’s are not good for the environment and in that scenario a lot has changed in a decade. Governments want clean railways as well as roads.

 

Yes and no more 66’s are being built because of environmental issues so in time 99’s will replace them. I agree the 99 would be a sensible choice.
A grand loco that knocks the 66 out of the game. At last a freight loco that can run clean on overhead power and is clean and efficient. Watch them slowly take over our freight scene.

 

I doubt the 99s will take over anything as we still have nearly 60 year old locomotives plying a solid trade in this country, plus change takes place at a pace that even wind erosion can easily beat. So I'd comfortably say 66s will be around for decades to come......

 

I only quoted what I heard in that Class 99 documentary.
They once said that about the diesel car tbf!
Point is we need more UK freight locos in this game as their omission is not realistic. I see plenty of other freight locos out on the rails. It’s getting dull.

 

And bucketloads of them are still driving around now doing the business, so just proves my point lol......

 

The 99 makes sense from 2026 onward (at best)
The 99 doesn't make sense on any route from 1998-2025 (and up to 2035 honestly)
Now ask yourself... what year routes do we have in game currently?
That is why the 99 is not a "Class 66 replacement."

It only works in the future.

 

They won't. Not to the same extent as the 66s anyways. IWe have far more 66s than 99s even ordered at this point.

Even though the 66s have been out of production for a while, GBRf (the ones who got the 99s) went through the effort of buying and importing foreign 66s to the UK.

Something else to consider is that freight locos don't cover nearly as much mileage compared to passenger trains, hence the wear and tear experienced is going to be lower - works in their favour, allows them to run them for longer without major issues.

DB, GBRf, ect. Are all businesses at the end of the day. Being green is great for PR but is it good from a financial perspective? DB offloaded a good chunk of their electric fleet, citing the cost of electricity as the main reason. All their 90s are gone, and the 92s are only hanging on as they are the only freight loco able to traverse the Chunnel. Otherwise, their DC equipment has been removed so they can't travel the third rail regions anymore.

At most I can see the 99s and the 66s coexisting alongside each other - unless the FOCs are willing to play the long game and replace the 66s slowly as they age and become less reliable (unlikely if the 59s are anything to go by), but by that time the new green freight locomotive will be around to beat both the 66 and 99.

 

To be fair, it wouldn't be difficult to simulate the 99 in service. You can already run a Vectron in game on UK tracks which is 90% the same thing (minus the diesel backup)
The problem is that it's not appropriate for any routes made before 2026.
Running a 99 on say GWE would be 11 years out of date at a minumum (probably more by the time GWE gets one in real life)
So it'd be like running a Class 66 on one of the Just Trains routes from the 1980s.
People would be quite upset.

Now... having said that a Class 88 is essentially the same thing with cosmetic differences and a less powerful diesel engine and was in service in 2013. It's not perfect, but it existed.
(Yes 940 hp isn't a very big engine, but the Class 99 won't match the Class 66 either with just under 2,400 hp. Neither is a 1:1 replacement)
So, it would at least be in service in the UK for the UK routes. Now we could argue where it "should" run, but that's a lot easier to get "creative" on than a locomotive that's still a prototype.

I still think the best bets for a 1:1 replacement would be Class 60, Class 70 or Cass 57.

 

I do see the 66’s and 99’s running together which will make life more interesting.
An aside is that in due course the rail operators may have the decision about clean engines removed from their hands by government. That is not an inconsequential chance as per legislation for the roads and airlines. To think the railways, not privately owned anymore, will be allowed to buck the trend in the future seems unlikely.
Yes the 66’s are here to stay…for now.

 

I appreciate that but I wasn’t referring to the game rather the long term future of freight locos in the UK!

 

Then we agree.
Future locos will be important in the future.
Which means mostly the 99 because what else is being purchased?
Although there's only 40 on order, so the 66's might be going for a long long time as long as it's easier to maintain them than buy new ones.

 

I don't think the UK railways has been privately owned - AFAIK Network Rail own the railways and signals associated with it. Well, that's not fully correct. HS1 is owned by HS1 Ltd and I don't think the government will go through the effort of buying it outright with the current financial landscape.

In terms of the FOCs I think only DRS is owned by the government, so they can only really meddle with their locomotives.

Otherwise the rest are to remain private (even post-GBR). The government will provide regulations when it comes to the emissions of newly-ordered locomotives (this only targets the manufacturers) but I highly doubt it would go down well if the government were forcing the freight companies to switch their locomotives to meet emissions.

I'd assume it would be the same situation to cars, car manufacturers have been mandated by the government to reduce their fleet CO2 average (hence the scrapping of the Ford GT, Focus RS, Audi TT and R8, ect) but old cars can stay on the roads for as long as they can exist. I think (quite rightly lol) many would revolt if the government demanded us to scrap our old ICEs and move to EVs.

Anyways why would they want then removed? They are far more cleaner than having x number of lorries on the road!

 

That was my take on the regulations too, but not from the UK. That they would like cars only matter with newly purchased stock. Existing locomotives would be left alone. In that case, it makes even more sense to keep what you have well maintained and rolling. It's not like locos can't remain in service a long time. There's still a few dozen 47s in service and they are what, 40 years older than the 66's?
The only argument I can see in favor of the 99 from an operator's perspective is that you would swap them out 1 for 2 compared to 66's (on electric routes anyway) and save money with half the fleet. Not sure how many runs demand two 66's though to use that extra capacity fully.
Here it's common to have multi-operation with even 6 or 8 or more locomotives in a huge consist, but not sure how often you need more than one 66 in a large consist to justify using a 99.

I wonder if there are any more 47s in storage that weren't scrapped they could make into 57s.

 

I voted for class 56 as that would be awesome.

The Deltic wasn't a freight loco until used a few years ago in Scotland

 

The Class 56 would be nice. Especially for older stuff when there were more in service. Still, what routes would they fit on authentically?
Or even a bit creatively?

 

Tees Valley, NTP and Shap, mainly.

 

Blackpool?

 

What's wrong with 37s? Some are still used for move jobs. They've got sub-classes. Lots of liveries.

 

Probably, but wasn't too sure.

 

Already in the game

 

Missing a few sub classes and also br blue and br green liverys

 

Yeah, the game is crying out for an EWS or DB red 37. An 08 would be nice too.

 

All of the above

 

And it's a much smaller loco. It wouldn't be a suitable replacement, and I don't think you can swap out 2 for 1 currently in TSW, just 1 for 1.

 

All of those.

Class 66s aren't used for literally everything, unlike what TSW would have you believe.