All Caltrain Content Being Removed On 27 February [update: Unbranded Version Coming]

I would - downloaded the free starter pack and Sherman hill (I think) on all platforms when they were free, even though I'm only a PS5 TSW player really.

As said previously, it's my personal opinion. Of course 80% is better than nothing at all, but it doesn't interest me. You're entitled to your opinion, but this should be conveyed respectably.

 

Given both Epic and PS sales got all Caltrain dlcs at 80% off, betting the other sales with them will be at that same discount price until the end.
(Which honestly is better than nothing just to grab 'em for the collection before they're gone.)

 

The last Peninsula Corridor sale is now live
Caltrain Last Chance Sale

 

This is really concerning:

Hopefully those who already have the TSW5 version will be able to download again regardless - thinking new consoles etc.

Also sad to see everything mentioning current version of TSW, not future versions - so sounds like when the death knell rings for TSW5, Caltrain won't currently move to TSW6 leaving behind yet more DLC with the previous version...

 

Keep in mind that this does not affect Steam.

If you buy it for one game on Steam, you get it for every other TSW game even if you don't own them.

 

Has dtg responded further to this yet? I think they should clarify what's going to happen to this dlc in future versions of tsw. And any other routes where licences end. Could I find myself having future versions of tsw with more of my paid for dlc missing?

 

I don’t believe they have responded, despite being pinged. Even if they are still working on being able to carry the routes forward to a future iteration of TSW, they could brief that out accordingly.

 

Dtg need to break the silence at some point.

 

They won't know what happens when other licenses expire until it happens. I don't think they are able to give specific details about the terms and conditions about the license.

They are still looking at ways to rebring caltrain out but they are still in talks to figure it out

 

They must have some idea. You don't just sign agreements like that with no idea what happens when the licence ends.

I understand at the end of the contract they can't sell the product anymore. But I've paid for that product. Its part of the tsw franchise, if dtg didn't have this ridiculous, let's bring out a new version every year, yet its the same game basically, I wouldn't come to this.

 

It would be nice if this Caltrain fiasco refocused their policy on that and stick with a consistent title that just gets updated with DLC funding development, but I somehow doubt it. As mused on previously, if DB or one of the big UK operators insisted no more of their routes/trains in the game and the existing ones can't be carried forward to the next version even if already owned - would pretty much kill the franchise stone dead.

 

They won't say because currently there is no TSW6 or announcement of such.

When TSW 6 is announced I'm sure they will reply. But for them to reply now would be to admit there is a TSW6 coming.

And they won't want to do that.

 

They don’t have to admit to TSW6, just that for existing owners the licence allows the DLC will be carried forward to any possible future version ad infinitum.

 

I think one cannot be 100% sure of this until TSW6 hits the Steam store.

 

Just one last thought on this debacle. Is Caltrain a publicly owned body? From discussions I’ve been having on another forum about content for Run 8, I have been told that State or Government run bodies do not have any protected rights on their liveries or branding - they are effectively in the public domain. This is from someone who is a Run 8 insider when I enquired about the possibility of Metrolink (for SoCal) and SunRail is it for Florida coming to the game, that they don’t need a licence to put their trains in the game. Obviously that still leaves issues of access for research etc. but in the case of Caltrain that’s already happened anyway.

So who is right? DTG or Run 8. Or are Run 8 playing a bit fast and loose with the letter of the law, given they haven’t actually dropped any content from these operators in the game yet?

This is the actual quote, taken from Trainsim dot com…
“Publicly owned agencies cannot trademark the same way a corporation can, so no licensing needed for TriRail, SunRail or Metrolink.”

 

Perhaps it only applies to entities based in the US (I have no idea where Run8 publisher is based)? DTG being a foreign entity and all may have affected it, and maybe especially so now given the US tendency to protectionism now

 

That is a possibility. DTG are UK based with Focus I believe headquartered in France. I doubt we will hear direct from the horses mouth but if I remember, maybe one to throw in the Q&A for the next Roadmap stream. Run 8 are a US registered LLC.

 

Also interesting is this nugget on Wikipedia:

Caltrain announced on August 19, 2011, a staff recommendation to sign a five-year, $62.5 million contract with TransitAmerica Services, after taking proposals from three other firms, including Amtrak California, which had provided operating employees since 1992.[13] The new operating contract was approved by the full Joint Powers Board at its scheduled September 1 meeting. TransitAmerica Services took over not only the conductor and engineer jobs on the trains, but also dispatching and maintenance of equipment, track, and right-of-way from Amtrak. On May 26, 2012, TransitAmerica took over full operations.
---
TransitAmerica Services, Inc. is an American passenger rail service provider headquartered in St Joseph, Missouri. The company was established in 2002 as a joint venture between Herzog Transit Services and Stagecoach Group. In 2004, Herzog bought out Stagecoach, and the company became a wholly-owned subsidiary of Herzog Transit Services.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caltrain
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransitAmerica_Services

 

I mean, some commuter lines do outsource their crews.

IIRC, Some Metra lines are operated by crews from the freight railroads.

Such as the BNSF line....

 

in the end, it is just a lighter, more fleshy cargo to haul lol

 

I’d suspect this is the case. I have no clue about the laws here, just to be clear. But no license required sounds a bit like an unintended backdoor to me if true. DTG have made it clear that they play it very safe with licenses because of possible knock-on effects with other licenses on top of research access. Given that Caltrain was very cooperative in the past and that we don’t know why the license wasn’t renewed, I’d wager DTG don’t want to burn any bridges (with Caltrain or others) by turning around and effectively saying “we didn’t need your license anyways, we’ll just keep publishing your stuff without your approval”, if what this Run8 person says is even true.

 

Yes, I'm sure this is not the case. As I pointed out elsewhere, publically owned agencies such as Metra and Septa would require licensing just like TfL in the UK.

 

In the airline world, passengers may be referred to as SLF (self-loading freight).

 

or in Slovak bus world as "substrát" aka the soil with enhanced nutrition that you use for house or garden plants, usually sold in big packets

 

And in the UK as well, for example Heathrow Express (operated by GWR personnel)

 

Will there be licensing issues with Canadian routes with more rolling stock? Because only part of Ontario exists.

 

Hard to say. The lack of further Canadian routes could simply be that they don’t score highly enough on the LAMPOIL process or that they don’t have anyone local who can act as an agent to do the quality research or even outsource the building. Fairly certain I remember reading that VIA wouldn’t grant a licence, obviously we know that GO said “No” which leaves the question mark hanging over CP. They are pretty much vital to getting the more interesting parts of Alberta and BC in the game, something between Calgary and Vancouver via Revelstoke.

 

Trust me Caltrain want Return in the Future with the Updated Peninsula Corridor with the new Stadler Kiss Train

 

I don't love electric trains, but if the route returns, that's fine. I saw a news story that said the old Caltrain rolling stock would be sent to the Latin American country of Peru. But I think they won't give him life because of the things that are said. Maybe that's another licensing issue. That's the news https://andina.pe/ingles/inicio.asp...-90-rail-cars-and-19-locomotives-1008150.aspx

 

I would suggest a dual timetable - first partial timetable shortly before KISS was put into full operation, with KISS running ECS test services and diesels doing full runs, and the other with KISS doing most of the work and diesels doing only some full runs and shuttles to Gilroy ... that way we would get both diesels and KISS ... one can dream, right?

 

Not being used on the zigzag line, then!

 

I can't download it for TSW5 even through I paid for it as well as it is installed in from TSW2 to TSW4 on my PS4. Very important that you downloaded it before it got removed if on PS4/PS5. I can't say anything about other systems (Xbox, PC)

 

So now that TSW6 has been announced, as well as based on the information given on the roadmap stream, it appears highly likely that the CalTrain DLC is not going to be ported over to TSW6, even if you already own it.

Looks like I'm going to have to keep another version of TSW installed on my PC to play a route that isn't going to get ported over to the newest TSW iteration, therefore sacrificing disc space on another version of a game that I will never play except for a few instances where I am curious on how well a route has held up (TSW2020 & NEC: NY), or if I want to feel a sense of nostalgia (TSW5 & Penninsula Corridor+afilliated DLC's)

This is what happens when you make licensing agreements with companies that are gung-ho about making their marketing and advertising towards the current thing (ie. CalTrain Electrics) and doing everything they can to destroy the previous thing (i.e. CalTrain Diesels) out of fear that it might cause bad publicity and reputation damage when it really isn't that serious to begin with (i.e. letting people play a game in which you are driving a diesel train that's emitting diesel fumes in the air potentially polluting the environment).

Sometimes I wonder if DTG agreeing to CalTrain was a mistake.

 

It wasn't back in 2019 when the route released. In fact the whole electrification proposal was still awaiting final vote back then.

So no it wasn't a mistake.

 

I asked in the Roadmap Q&A thread what will happen for legitimate owners of Caltrain come TSW6 but don’t think the question has been formally answered yet. Personally I feel DTG need to grasp the bill by the horns and just let it carry over in the same way as before. It’s their choice to rebrand and relaunch TSW as a “new” version when they could, in fact, simply have applied the core updates. If the licence with Caltrain was so restrictive as to prevent people who bought the content keeping it with them across version changes, then it wasn’t negotiated very successfully in the first place!

 

JD said on the roadmap stream that they are still working on it but can't promise anything yet.

 

The irony is, if we had bought this game and content on a disc no one could come along and decree we could no longer get access to it.

 

They could take it off of the disk for the next version though.

 

Sadly, according to the law, you don't own your games unless you have a physical copy of it, even if you bought it.
So they aren't forced to make you keep your game.

I do recommend that you sign the petition against this at stopkillinggames.com (only EU citizens can vote) and if they get 1 million votes the European Parliament is legally forced to consider it and have a vote. Then you will own your games (if you are an EU citizen)

 

Unfortunately the UK decided to leave the EU…

 

Don't worry! I forgot to mention that they have a separate petition for UK players. I just don't know if the british parliament is forced to consider it.

 

I agree, OldVern. The loss of CalTrain content going forward is unfortunate, but solely down to the marketing decision from the bean counters to re-release the game each year. Perhaps, this should have been a wake up call for DTG to rethink this practice.

 

Glad this has been clarified. Thanks for letting us know!

 

To clarify things a bit for those who ain't aware, confused, or just curious here's two screenshots from one of Accursed Farm's videos on Stop Killing Games. (Which is assume what is being talked about here)



Long stories short its main goal to clarify and hopefully get consumer law to catch up and regular video game publishers better. With the goal of trying to make online-required and live-service titles be in some sort of usable state after their servers are shut down. To be clear this is very important in its own right, there's tons of games (mainly online multiplayer and smartphone focused titles) right now that effectively won't exist in any capacity going forward if these sort of practices go unchecked, and that is a genuine concern. I fully support it (to the degree I can as a American at least, which ain't much) and encourage anyone actually in the EU or UK to seriously look into signing this.

That all being said, this wouldn't impact anything to do with TSW, simple fact is the CalTrain content will remain available to those who owned it. They ain't asking developers to sell games forever, that just ain't feasible in every case for a number of reasons, licensing actually being the big one. And there really isn't anything with that or any other TSW content that's at risk of dying if the servers shut down, except perhaps mastery content. But that's rather minor in the grand scheme of things, and frankly could honestly be fixed with a simple patch if needed down the line.

While DLC not being brought over to the next game sucks, simple fact is there ain't any law saying that you NEED every bit of content playable in a sequel title. Frankly most sequels are entirely separate games, in the same way a film series like The Lord of the Ring's films are. You aren't entitled to force the owners of the IP to include the prior two films in that trilogy on the third film's disc. Likewise you're not entitled to the Back to the Future Blu-ray and its exclusive content just because you owned the film on VHS. The Blu-ray's a distinct product from the VHS version, even if it is a version of the same film.

To be clear, I ain't saying people don't have valid reasons to want CalTrain content in TSW6. I don't like that it's not gonna be on sale any further, and I do still want to have that content carry forward to future versions. I personally think DTG really should commit to at least selling unbranded versions of any content that can't be continued to be sold with licensing going forward if nothing else. But simple fact is all of that is very divorced from anything going on with SKG,

 

If it reaches the threshold, it will be brought up in parliament. It doesn't mean anything will happen, but that applies to the EU as well. If it only has an effect in one of them, everywhere else will likely be affected if everything goes to plan.

 

Hear what you say Chris, but we are being forced to keep the DLC on what will become an obsolete and unsupported version of the game because of DTG’s own decision to put a “6” on the box again this year. Certainly not a choice your customers made or were even polled about. Unless radical changes are indeed going to be revealed, I am pretty much certain TSW6 will look and play much the same as TSW5.

And that still leaves the issue our American friends on other forums are adamant about, if Caltrain is in the public domain you don’t actually need a license to display their branding in game. Now I take that with a pinch of salt as even Run 8 seem to steer clear of certain liveries but certainly an avenue your legal and contractual team should be looking at.

The reality is, if Caltrain can’t come over to TSW6, with or without branding, a great route and two superb add on packs will be lost to most players who see no real reason to keep TSW5 hanging about.

 

I mentioned a while ago (I think) that the licensing may prevent the DLC being re-released for future versions of the game even if it was delisted. As others have said, an official statement on the issue is needed.

 

Just sharing this from another thread - a good step in the right direction, but I do hope Caltrain eventually allows it to remain branded

 

Wow alot of people with experience negotiating licensing aggrements on here.

Or are you all just talking out your wazoos?