Caltrain Content Tsw6

I have always been supportive of the yearly game updates on the understanding that existing content can be used on new versions so I will be very disappointed if the content is removed from TSW6 because DTG have failed to maintain their licences.

I know I can still play it on TSW5 but this defeats the point of a collection, it's not a collection if they can't be accessed from the same point and with the same core feature set. When TSW10 is out do I really still have to go back to a vastly outdated TSW5 to play it? How many more are going to be removed from my collection in the coming years? Sure, its only 3 DLC (plus the old NEC I already lost) from the 128 I own but it signifies the beginning of a very unhealthy trend towards the erosion of an expensively assembled collection.

Hopefully an unbranded version can be brought to TSW6.

 

The issue however, is that even if Peninsula Corridor were to get a proper remaster with the Stadlers (assuming of course the licensing issue get's resolved between Caltrain and DTG,, Caltrain would absolutely forbid DTG from representing any of the diesel locomotives on the remastered route. As I have stated on another thread, CalTrain is very strict on how they wish to be represented (as confirmed by one of the TSW ambassadors who had worked alongside CalTrain before TSW was ever released), and they have been keen on promoting their electric friendly image by absolutely destroying their former image of using diesel electrics, one of the main reasons why I question DTG's decision to ever license with CalTrain to begin with.

There is a reason why the CalTrain Baby Bullet DLC, despite it still running on the south city connector irl, has been delisted as well, along with the MP15DC.

 

If unbranding is gonna happen, you have a choise, or play the TSW5 branded version or the TSW6 unbranded one. Yes you paid for it, but you can sill play it on multiple versions of the game. If it is impossible for DTG to release new branded versions of the route, there is not much they can do. Licensing can be tricky in the gaming industry, many games are delisted because of licensing issues.

I play mainly German routes and I like to see other operators then DB, even if it means unbranded trains. Ofcourse is correct branding better, however when branded trains are not possible but I can play other and new stuff without branding, I still would say yes.

When licensing is holding back the game in general or like in this case a route, I'm totally fine with unbranded stuff.

 

DTG Chris said that the content will be kept

 

I thought the official stance is that negotiations are still proceeding, including whether Caltrain will be amenable to the unbranded version.

 

It’s sounding like the content will be kept, but will be debranded.

 

Not worth it, I’ll just wait for a modder to make a skin.

 

Source please?

 

Exactly as my point above. The only information we have is that the situation is ongoing and they hope to resolve. We are not automatically guaranteed an unbranded version, yet.

 

Yes that's the information I've seen. Just wondering if other people have seen other information because they seemed so certain an unbranded TSW6 version of Peninsula Corridor was coming. I've seen no such promise from DTG yet, unfortunately.

 

There was only one post from DTG here on the forums about they're gonna try to include the routes for TSW6 but with unbranded trains.

 

Last word I saw was that Caltrain will not be moved up to TSW6, but that avenues are being explored including possible unbranding. So definitely no with a side of maybe.

 

Seems like they've read "we're looking into it" as "we are doing it".

 

And because some of the masses have read what they want instead of reading what was actually put in a post, prepare for the wild calls of DTG making it a con or a scam to drive up potential sales of their new product, a product that will actually be sodding free.......

 

It feels like this would be a nice time capsule, worth preserving. I get they’re going green and want to tout it, this was still an era of their past and I’d wager not a few folks have fond memories attached to this era, who wouldn’t mind revisiting if only virtually.

 

Considering they aquired the license prior to May of 2017 (The date electrification was approved) I can understand why, it was before Caltrain changed their stance.

The TSC Caltrain was released in 2016 and the liscense was a piggy back off of that one.

 

As I've said before, the no-brainer is keeping the diesel-era timetable around as a DLC for an electrified version of the route, touting front and centre in the marketing of it how the sim is an environmentally friendly way to experience that part of history.

Maybe have the store page link to a calculator where you can put in your address and it tells you what percentage of your electricity comes from renewables, and has a rough number for an end to end run of the line and the CO2 emissions from one of the old locos vs how much power a PC with the recommended specs for TSW uses in that same time, and how much CO2 that is based on the amount of renewables in your regional grid.

I bet their marketing folks would eat that up, if presented to them.

 

I don't like companies who're trying to erase their history and pretent like they have always been the "good" guys.

We had steam, diesel and now more and more lines are electrified, but there is no valid reason to pretend you weren't run diesel trains. It even can be "good" marketing to show where you come from and how you do it now, however this means two seperate routes, one with and one without overhead wires.

But it seems CarlTrain isn't trustworthy with licensing, as they just revoke the license, so I would stay far away from this company to avoid more trouble in the future.

 

Noone revoked anything as far as I can tell, the licencing had a natural end date that had been agreed on, and funnily enough when that date arrived the licence ended. What is it about having to make everything single thing into some evil plot......

 

In that case they also could have renewed the license, what didn't happen for some reason. Is it really not renewed because of their green image?

But if a natural ending is the case, then it's also on DTG. It's also make me curious about what other licenses are due to end the same way.

 

Most definitely on DTG if they didn't realise the implications of what they signed, particularly knowing they were going down this path of an annual new game. Are the people running the company really that naive?

 

To answer your second question, all the licenses they have when the agreed date for expiry happens......

 

Did DTG know they were going down that path when they originally made PC?
As I recall, this licensing deal dates to before the concept for doing a TSW2 had been finalised, and even before there were plans for the preservation crew to exist to bring TSW content forward!

 

Wasn't the license for GWR also expired? They are still able to sell GWE, so atleast it seems to be they agreed something else.

 

It expired, they did unbranded stuff, then they were able to renew it.

 

Did they unbrand the trains in GWE?

 

No.

 

They developed unbranded trains but then managed to get the licensing deal renewed so they wouldn't need unbranded ones for the remastered route.

 

Right, but as far as I know they never pulled it of sales like CalTrain was, so it seems there was a different kind of agreement between GWR and DTG.

 

Feasibly it could also hypothetically have been an internal DTG decision based on not wanting to have a route in the back catalogue that had to be removed from the compatibility list for TSW6 and might confuse customers buying it for the older games, but yes, that seems a likely reason.

 

This licensing situation might well come up again. I pointed out earlier that these licenses probably have low attention from these corporations and decisions would be taken by a paralegal based on general policy and with little input from the executive level. You might be surprised how many decisions are influenced by a single individual with a personal interest, without which things move at a glacial pace.(given recent political events, you might be less surprised......).

 

If I were in charge of a train company, licensing my brand to a game company would be extremely low on my list of priorities.

Should be thankful they let DTG license them at all.

 

obviously it wouldn't be a priority for any railway company, but it doesn't hurt to let people who paid for the licensed content enjoy it

edit: I also recognize that much of the blame for this happening is on dtg for this idea of a "new" game every year, that sucks

 

Meanwhile there are people who still have TSW 2020 and the old NEC route still installed.

And they never conplained about it.

 

Come on they absolutely complained about it lol.

And....not necessarily a bad thing IMO because the collective uproar led to the pre-TSW2 routes being carried over in the first place! The original plan was to start completely fresh iirc.

Regarding CalTrain- i hope it comes back to TSW6 (updated with latest core features even better), even if it's unbranded.

It was a great, (mostly) complete route that you could run up and down all day as long as the signalling held up- the CalTrain Speed Signal System was maybe a little too much for that version of the dispatcher. The baby bullet and switcher DLCs were fun too imo.

 

I took a trip back to the past and came across this thread:

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/somethings-coming.23013/

It was posted and commented on up to and during the reveal of TSW2, (June 2020) and the FAQ posted towards the end mentions that TSW1 DLC will carry over. Was that plan changed then rescinded or something?

 

It was the uproar from the communty that lead to them creating the preservation crew.

This would be after that the FAQ was adjusted. But at 1st nothing was going to move over to TSW 2.

 

The fact i loose content from going to tsw6 is inacceptable.

Here to say ill put my final nail into the tsw coffin. Not interested in any further support.

Thats it from my side..

 

People were still using NY-Trenton threads to gripe about losing that route, in 2023.

 

Not to mention people still ask for the SW1000R and GP40-2 to come back every once in awhile. (Though the GP40-2 should be rebuilt from scratch or from the existing GP38-2 as AFAIK that model has issues)

 

It was mentioned that the blue FGW ones featured in the remaster would be unbranded.
It's possible they still will be unbranded as the licence might only cover the green GW ones.

 

I'm one of those who has TSW2020 installed with only the 3 DLCs (NEC: New York, SW1000R, and GP40-2), and I'm okay with that, since the non-port of these 3 DLCs was due to technical limitations at the time
this situation of the 3 DLCs of TSW2020 has nothing to do with the situation of caltrain dlcs
in the end, I'll have to have TSW2020 installed because of the 3 DLCs, as well as TSW5 installed because of the Caltrain DLCs, and who knows how many other versions of TSW I'll have to keep installed to be able to play content I paid for, and that because of DTG's need to release a "new" TSW every year, I won't be able to play
I hope not
I hope it comes unbranded, so at least we'll still have access to the DLCs
Let's hope for that

 

I still haven't forgiven DTG for not preserving NEC New York - New Rochelle, and probably won't do so until the route has been preserved into the latest TSW game.

The only time I was OK with leaving behind anything from my collection is when I made the switch from TSC to TSW. But at the time I was under the impression it'd be a one-time thing, and TSW would simply keep getting yearly updates as TSC had gotten over the years.

 

My collection has cost me over £3000 ($4000 or 3500 Euros to our non-UK friends) so being future-proofed is the bare minimum I expect. Its a red line that has already been crossed once too often.

If they come up with a brand new game with a new name, built on a new engine then I don't mind a fresh start. The same way I went from TSC to TSW. Any update with the TSW name on it I expect all DLC, without exception, to be available for use in it. Its not really a lot to ask.

 

I know an opportunity. Don't make a new game every year!

I've never lost any of my DCL in TSC, even those items withdrawn from sale were still playable and present in the latest version of TSC.

 

As I said previously, someone must have been either naive or uninformed when they negotiated this licence.

Let’s hope the DB etc. licences are more robust.

 

I hope you manage to bring em back, even if they wont get updates... the route is fun and the locos are quite engaging, so it would be a loss definitely

 

There is lot of nonsense and misinformation about licensing in this thread. At one time, it was not unusual to have licenses that automatically renewed unless specifically cancelled, but quite a while back, it became a no-no when businesses started being more aggressive in renegotiating agreements and wanted more flexibility in changing agreement conditions - having a fixed term allowed that flexibility. From the legal point of view, a license is simply a special type of agreement and railroads, when dealing with the flea on the dog (i.e. DTG) will simply use boilerplate. DTG will not have much freedom to dictate terms - quite the reverse, so to accuse DTG of being naive is a little unfair.
As to the whining about 'losing' DLCs, there is no game company which will guarantee that all elements of a current game will be playable in a future version. If you have a perpetual license to play the original game and do not lose the game when a new version is introduced, you lost nothing other than a little inconvenience (and storage space - get a larger drive)