Dovetail Games Class 86 Loco - Master Feedback Thread

Xbox series S

Two nitpicks i found:
-AI trains dont turn on ETH
-MK2fs doesnt recognize the Class 45/1 as an ETH loco

Other than that its amazing!

 

In advance of buying this on Steam, just one thing that’s been slightly niggling me since watching the streams… Shouldn’t the interior wall panelling in the Mark 2F’s by a creamy white (magnolia) colour in this era, not a shade of light blue as seems to have been modelled? I’ll take a closer look later but certainly my recollection of travelling on this stock around this time is of the cream coloured walls, which then combined with the fluorescent lighting to give a rather bright travelling environment.

 

Only been able to do Carlisle down to Oxenholme on my lunch break today, but first impressions say that Just Trains have absolutely nailed it again.

Very similar to drive to the 87 (but that's fine because the 87 is awesome to drive anyway) and despite the lower top speed you do really feel like you are fleeing down the track. Sounds are great too, subtle differences (apart from the horn which is wildly different) from the 87 again too.

Feels like £19.99 well spent.

 

I often feel bad coming on the feedback thread posting minor bugs, making it seem like the route or loco is poor quality when in reality it's often just slipped out with some minor issues that need addressing.

But not this time, having completed the training and first two services on the journey, the only feedback I have to give is, bravo, absolutely flawless!

 

great loco ... but on my PS5 first run down to Preston, during my stop for passengers at Penrith, i stood up to open the engine room door to take a look. My bad.
Once back in my seat, all i had was brakes. The pantograph was up, but electric power was gone. After 10 minutes of trying what works on other traction lock outs, i finally reset the loco. And off we go. Had to reset safety systems as an after thought, but was there a way to over-come this sort of Deadman device lockout ? Is it a feature or a minor issue ?
Really great DLC. Could a 91 be next ?
PS
TSW5 PS5 pause and then Rest Mode of PS5 then upon PS5 back up and TSW5 resume gives a 86loco that cannot take power ... but all other systems fin, so this is an issue at least on PS5.
PPS
In testing this, i had one success with a manual restart with pantograph down then up, but there was a catch: i was on a hill and with loco brake holding the train, the train brake would not charge with loco brake even under 20% ... i had to let the train roll backwards, recharge, apply loco brake, apply power, and then release loco brake. So there is an issue if stalled on a hill on PS5 once power is lost, because restarting the compressor is an issue for me.
But i love driving this 86 and hope for a quick fix to this logic or an explanation for PS5. On PC, some work-arounds use controller, key and a mouse click. No mouse recognized on PS5. No key assignments allowed. Oy. And no mods.

 

Platform: Xbox one

Loving the 86 so far.

I'm not familiar with the mk2f coach so when I did my first service I thought I was pulling MK3 coaches

In terms of Gen 8 performance it is very similar to the 87, which is good. Only get texture issues at big stations but it clears up out in the countryside.

For the benefit of gen 8 players who are wanting to know more about the gen 8 experience, the 86 gets its own timetable, much like freight and DMU services. Similar to the 87 with mk3 you only get a basic configuration of coaches in timetable mode services . This being standard class and the BSO at the rear. But this is expected.

 

Platform: Xbox Series X

Audio seems fine, visuals seem good, coach physics such as ETS being on/off and audio is very good, but its let down by a poor Livery designer and Formation Creator as alot of other DLCs are


Formation and Livery issues:
- Mk3a TSO in livery designer has been renamed to Mk2f, along with all the coaches used in custom formations

- Mk2f is in its own folder on livery designer however liveries arent accessible through formation designer

- Mk2f TSO on formation designer is duplicated but both options give you the wrong coach (Mk3a TSO or Mk1 RMB)

- Mk2f BSO is completely missing from Livery Designer

- Mk2f FO player made liveries aren't accessible on formation designer


Audio "issue"
- High tone horn is very choppy and looped in the doppler effect of a passing train


Visual bug
- Cab door window shows rain falling down even if door is open which would shelter the door (only a minor issue I know)

 

The 86 is very good with excellent graphics, particularly like the attn to detail with the red tape around the throttle lever. The horn though is not good and needs to be enhanced.

Could do with some more scenarios to include freight and double headed 86 on haulage routes.

 

Sorry for late reply

Spawned on foot at Carlisle. 1M33 Glasgow to Brimingham. Both Line volt and Train heat lights are off. Pressing the Train heat on button does nothing. Mk2fs are dead silent and the fans are still

 

Same here. 1S50. Some Ai service departing north with a Class 47. Mk2fs dead silent and the fans are still. But this time pressing the Train heat on button turn the aircon on. The fans also spin up. The distinct whirl is also audible

 

"Just Trains have produced a Class 86 Manual to outline specific changes and operations."

 

2 questions:
-Which version of the 86 spawns with the Brecknell Willis pantograph, I’ve tried them all but I just get the Stone faiveley pantograph, is it random?

-Which 86 spawn with the unique headlight shown in the first teaser?

 

86225 “Hardwicke” spawns with the rally lamp

 

This might just be me but (and excuse the lack of technical lingo here) but I don't think the bogie is right.
The bit I highlighted with arrows in the pic, it looks (to me) to be too close to the rail. I've been looking at real-life photos and there is more of a gap in the pics.

 

For some reason, it was labeled under a MK1 carriage... But then reset to a mk2f bso

 

I find that in formation designer, it doesn't give you the option to apply your livery so you have to stick with the br blue one or intercity. I have tried restarting my game after making them but to no prevail. I think some others are having the same issues

 

Slight delay getting going due to some PC issues.

The feast is looking good, just started the first proper run in Journey mode.

Note I did try the Training Centre tutorial but it would not advance beyond the Release/Overcharge brakes stage.

And further to what I noted earlier, definitely feel the Mark 2F TSO and BSO are the wrong colour on the interior panels and walls. They were not a shade of light blue but a light magnolia.

 

Aside from the above irking me, am loving my runs so far.
Some textures are slow to load on my PC, but no idea if it is memory as I've been in the sim for quite a while this evening!

 

Overall fantastic add on which is worth every penny, with a great locomotive and great Mk2Fs and the Mk1 RMB.

I done a run from Preston to Carlisle on the 1S87 service, and I don't know if it is just me, but I find the neutral sections on the Class 86 are not functioning correctly as they should be. When I run the tap changer down in advance of the neutral sections, and go through it, it overloads the system requiring a reset. Where as when I go through the neutral section with power applied the locomotive works as normal with no issues (where it should be cutting out and requiring a reset). It should be the other way round.

A minor bug that can be ironed out pretty easy in a future patch.

 

What platform are you on? I'm on PC and been running services for a couple of hours and only once I have had to reset and that was leaving Carlisle. Even the neutral sections on Manchester Airport Commuter are working for me.

 

Well i've already encountered a bug, no rail driver support on the Intercity Livery 86
(This is from a friend who doesn’t have an account on here)

 

On PS5, just done Preston to Carlisle and all sections worked fine for me.

 

On PS5 myself.

Just to check I wasn't going mad I done a return journey on a Class 87 and had no issues what so ever on the return journey and obeyed them as I always do. I'll give it another run in the morning and see if I get duplicate results.

I have never had an issue with neutral sections at all in the past when driving the Class 87 and understand how they work and how to react to them so I know I haven't done anything any different. I shall report back tomorrow sometime to see if the problem persists!

 

So I've only been able to do one run today (been a long day flying to Kos and back with work) but managed to do Preston to Carlisle with 86239 doing the honours, very fitting actually as my house backed on to L.S. Lowry's house (although he had been gone a few years by then).

I'd started off just doing a few LE moves around Preston then coming onto the stock to take it up to Carlisle. The only issues I'd encountered during the prep and shunts were down to my own tiredness (leaving the changeover switch in, leaving the straight air on - both of which I've done in reality too on the pres line so that's good realism haha). I had no actual issues with the loco nor the stock on the run, the neutral sections all worked fine. I must admit to dozing off a couple of times, just micro-sleeps (so another authentic moment then) but don't think I missed anything.

I didn't get to have a proper look around the "Coffins" yet nor the RMB (sorry Vern) though from my brief duck inside of one of the TSO's it looked the part. It was an enjoyable run, hoping to do a fair few tomorrow after my foray over to Amsterdam & back

The only issue that I have spotted so far is that no driver took over after I reached Carlisle, the train departed as booked just with nobody in either cab - not a dealbreaker though

So far, a very good add-on, well done to the JT lads

 

Fantastic addon from what I've driven so far, only issues I've had is that the vacuum chamber release valve doesn't seem to work in the class 86 and I'm struggling to get the Mk1 RMB to switch into vacuum braking. It doesn't apear to have the air release string in the undercarriage like the Mk1 BGs do. Great work as usual though form Just Trains

 

I’m unsure if this is intended or not.

In some consists a BSO will be at the end of a train, coupled to a first class carriage, idk it just seems strange to me that there would be half a carriage of standard class at one end, separated from the rest of the train by a first class only carriage

the 86/2 is unable to be operated double headed. You can see this with the tap changer dial cluster. There’s only a single tap dial as opposed to the 87s 2 dials which indicates it can be double headed.

 

Plus the 86 was never used for freight services.

 

*cough cough* 86/6 *cough cough*
The 86/2 was never used on freights, or rarely on it if they did

 

With regard to neutral sections, been through two so far and both seem to work as expected. The line lights seem harder to see than on the 87 though maybe that’s just my eyes! Maybe a slight buff to the brightness when on could help.

Before departing Preston I did have a quick walk through the train and was pleased to note every seat in the RMB was occupied! Probably passengers without a seat reservation as that’s where you tended to end up and made a cup of tea last two hours! As noted at the time though the styling seems to clash a little. Fairly certain the 100 MPH vehicles with Commonwealth bogies had the more modern Mark One interior style. That is to say, the central strip light in the saloon area rather than tungsten discs and the less commodious seats with smaller wing rests.

Now as regards the Mark 2F’s, I can’t really let the interior issue lie. Archive footage is hard to find but some of the versions still in use today still have the magnolia style as I clearly remember it, e.g:






So the light blue interior in the sim is quite wrong and needs to be changed. The only 2F’s that might have received this treatment was a small batch that were slightly modified for use on overnight trains, as they also got some rather garish midnight blue fluorescent lighting.

Also worth noting as shown in the first image, by 1986 certainly the coaches in IC livery had been refurbished with the seat types shown in the first image and in the red moquette. So with all due deference to JT’s research team, think you need to go back and take another look at the Mark 2F’s - not a show stopper but the errors are slightly more than rivet counting, for those of us who want to authentically remember this period.

 

-Buffet car wheel blur needs fixing

 

Oh Vern you're never pleased are you

Regarding the 86's acceleration, I think it's on a par with the 87, there or thereabouts. I did a PRE-CAR run. Leaving LAN from a standing start, I hit the neutral zone at 82, same as the 87, and was easily up to 100 well before Carnforth too.
Up Shap I levelled out at 93 mph, again ~ on a par with the 87.
I was on time while keeping line speed, and arrived at CAR 4 early.
Perhaps the 86 has lower gearing?

 

Oh I am and don't want to come across as picky. But it's the little details that make the difference between a very good add on and a truly great one.

 

Like this.?

 

Yes that's another example. Sorry JT but you dropped the ball on this a bit.

 

The in game lighting can affect the colours quite a bit, this is taken with half clouds and there is no blue tint yet with full sun there is a slight blue tint.

We'll look into the lights to see what we can do as they help give off a warm glow which might help counteract the in game lighting and give the desired effect.

 

Thanks Ben, certainly an odd one. Certainly nothing else on TSW or any other game demonstrates this colour distortion, which is evident in your own PR images and the YT streams which I watched on the TV. As an experiment later I will load up a timetable at night or in grim weather to see how it looks.

 

As you're on here, Ben, can you answer my bogie issue further up this thread?

 

The bogie seems indeed off, a little bit to low. De horizontal beam.

 

Platform: XBOX Series X

Class 86 entire cab texture is affected by the wider bug of sudden low and blended graphics

 

Is that what it's called? I've been looking through 86/2 pics and it is too low. It's almost like a 3rd rail shoe.
I had to check it against 86/2 as the 86/1s were different.

 

Platform: XBOX Series X

Class 86 RCH in livery designer only shows marker lights, but when spawning loco it shows headlamp in plain white

Base painting the loco didnt work

Placing a small coloured decal on the nose didnt work


UPDATE - Workaround found, place a small decal and colour it to suit, **set projection settings to 100% angle and depth**

 

Brake selector switch is mislabelled or wrong positions set.


Additionally I believe that this part of the description/manual:
"The liveries with the RCH (Railway Clearing House) designation have a set of jumper cables installed at each end of the locomotive to allow communication via the TDM (Time Division Multiplex) system between the leading locomotive and any trailing one or DVT vehicle. "

Should be changed to
"The liveries with the RCH (Railway Clearing House) designation have a set of jumper cables installed at each end of the locomotive to allow for driver to guard signalling only. This simulation does not include Time Division Multiplexing (TDM) and these locomotives cannot work in multiple."

Since when I first read this before release I was in belief that the TDM MU system would be fully featured as the locos lack the old/original multiple working jumpers that are found on other 86s and originally 87s prior to TDM fitment. I understand now why TDM is not simulated due to time period but I feel it is slightly misleading to proclaim that the loco can talk to other locos or DVT's as this does make it sound like the locos are fitted with TDM MU capabilities when in reality they are not (at least in the time period) as DVT's were introduced to the WCML around 1989-1991

Additionally if I may suggest a couple of sound changes.
The sliding Mk2f vestibule doors shouldn't have really loud rollers like the old wooden doors of Mk2a also the sliding cage doors in the BSO luggage compartment could also do with slightly different sounds that sound more like metal cage doors.

Finally potentially a suggestion for a future DLC for TSW6.
WCML South Electric Railtour Pack featuring modern variants of class 86 and 87, Mk2f and Mk3a coaches in Intercity Swallow with TDM and CDL and potentially the Mk3 DVT for use with the locomotives.

 

Me again.. can I just say JT have really let me down with this one, no one tested anything to do with free roam, livery designer or consists.

Class 86 custom livery - when spawning in a custom loco it has the following issues:

- Reverser in REV but the game thinks its in OFF

- Every single MCB tripped

- The loco thinks its on fire (fire bell wont stop ringing)

- Cant operate the master key because of reverser

- Cant operate reverser because of master key

Did no one think to test anything other than if it can go forwards on a preview stream in a pre-made timetable?


Update: upon further Beta testing (which shouldve been done pre-release), I can chalk this up to an issue with Train Sim World save games as my class 31 was also locked up by a bad reverser and I've known 20s to do the same.

 

Class 86 looks really good. Was able to relivery and place in Formation Designer. Nice.

Went to the coaches. In Livery Editor, the coaches are all mis-named:

JT MK2F TSO is JT MK3a TSO
JT MK2F BSO is JT MK3a RMB
JT MK2F FO is JT MK3a FO
JT Mk1 RMB is JT MK3a RMB

In Formation Editor, the coaches are correctly labelled and appear in the Designer, but only 'Official' liveries, not repaints!

So, once again, I feel I have been mis-sold another group of assets.

Not happy.