Upcoming Release Wmr / Xc Class 170 - Coming Soon!

What your reply just doesn't make sense. What was your point.

 

Timetable and Class 170 both look good. Good job Tyler and the rest of the Rivet Team.

Only disappoint is the route not receiving any fixes (glowing benches) or upgrades (new track shadows) but that is a DTG thing and not Rivet. It would have been an excellent opportunity.

 

I haven't played BCC in such a long time.

Thoughts after the stream...
PLUS: the timetable looks nice, so happy to see a busier Birmingham New Street - no longer a Ghost Town.
NEGATIVES: No plans at present for the CC 170 to be added to MML. Opportunity missed.
I haven't played BCC in a long time but the colours look so washed out and route needs some TLC.

Not going to get it immediately as work kicks back in next week and my TSW-time will plummet, but will certainly get it down the line at some point.

 

I thought rather then repeat myself, I'd quote my own post from the another thread as I feel it's relevant.

 

I do find it funny that the horn has a sticker saying "HORN" above it

 

I do think it's disappointing that DTG haven't updated the track shadows. I appreciate that it involves a non-zero amount of work, but surely it's to the benefit of TSW as a whole for new content to be accompanied by a little bit of effort to polish up the route.

Very impressed by Tyler on the stream, really appreciated his explanation of gluing together the assorted services from the working timetable, and great news that the Fife Circle 170 will also being getting updated.

 

Has BCC got the TOD4 lighting?

 

matjamcar it has but track shadows is a different part and introduced in TSW5. TOD4 is already in the game since TSW3

 

The track shadows are a huge improvement and should be a standard update for paid DLC release.

If not now, when? DTG?

 

Track shadows wouldn't come as part of a new timetable.

 

My point is that it’s a bit nonsensical to say ‘get over it, I don’t think it’s too expensive’, when I do and I made that clear originally. If you want to buy it, go ahead and I hope it’s worth the money, but for me it’s too expensive. That’s not a reason to say ‘that doesn’t matter because I’m buying it’

 

I think you misunderstand the point I'm making which is the following
- The mod is made for PC users for free by the community
- Rivet makes an incredibly similar "DLC"
- Rivet charges £12.99 for this DLC for console players instead of releasing it as a free update.

Is the "DLC" inspired by the mod? Is the big question.

What I'm saying is the timing is suspicious. The mod comes out for PC then about a (Edit: year) later rivet do almost exactly the same thing for others (console users) to charge a fee for it.

If anything I'm actually saying that this should be released for free for console players, and that it's incredibly suspicious that this DLC is so similar to the mod which was released for free to PC players made by the community.

like at least give some credit for inspiration? idk lol. of course its possible its occam's razor and rivet were just working on the same thing as trag but come on, it is incredibly similar...

 

I still find it incredibly similar. It's almost like "just copy my homework and change it up a bit", in this case they've changed the year lol. So are we getting virgin/unmarked pendos at BHM New St. With this DLC? As we see in the OTS 2019 WCML modded TT some of the pendos are Virgin and some are unmarked. Will we be getting pendos at all?

All I think is that they should have just offered to buy or license your mod and release it for console users I really don't get why they've gone this route... heh.

 

Good for 2TTyler then I congratulate them on getting the job honestly. See if you can get in with JustTrains trag, you never know right?

 

That was a good stream, very interesting!
And you Harry? You're bonkers! Love it

 

Im not sure I follow what your issue is here, or even the logic of it.

The mod itself is literally content based on reality, so straight away there’s no issue with whose idea it is, any question of copying would be down to the implementation & work itself, and going off the stream, the person responsible seems to have done this official TT from scratch even going as far as making their own tool to do so. There’s nothing to suggest data from the mod has been used.

You’re asking/assuming if the DLC is inspired by the mod, disregarding that BHM is a very busy & popular rail hub. The idea of representing it as such in TSW is hardly unpopular, there have long been requests for a TT update.

You then also say the timing is suspicious, which I really don’t understand at all, what would be suspicious about a mod releasing 2 years prior to this pack? In any case that’s not even a correct time line, the mod isn’t 2 years old, the creator posted it in May this year.

Another point you make is about this being a paid pack rather than free, which you take issue with since the mod exists - surely you can just continue to use the mod then & there is no need for you to pay for the pack?

Your posts seem to imply that because a mod exists, an official DLC shouldn’t be made that introduces the content, in which I would agree with Stu’s comments on the matter.

Regarding your final point of why they didn’t use the mod creators content; This wasn’t a Rivet idea in the first place, they were approached by another person who wanted to do it & that person was told yes but not straight away.

 

The timetable mod came out 5th May 2025, so not a couple years ago. A couple months ago. Rivet would have been working on this way before it came out. It's not some grand conspiracy.

 

Thanks for this as it means I don’t have to reply making the same points.

 

That's pretty cool, lady. I've never seen a train that color. It's nice that it will run on a route I already have. I haven't been playing much lately because the family has been busy taking care of my sister with cancer. She passed in May. I started playing again in early July, then another family issue. It's good to be back!

 

I'll try to nip this one right now. As I mentioned before, there are only so many routes in the game that the odds that two people are working on similar TT is quite high. Especially if you look at the highly requested BCC.

I started my TT in February, in April I had almost all 1200 services added (with a lot of platform conflicts) and another modder posted in the Editor forum they were looking at making a modern day TT. Great nothing I can do about and the more the merrier.

So it took 3 months to complete my mod. We all know how long an Official DLC takes to go through the process. If you read the article it mentions the process started last year and I know now that it did. So no the DLC isn't inspired by the mod.

I am gratefully to everyone who has downloaded, commented and enjoyed my TT. Now there is an official version for everyone to enjoy and you are good hands.

 

Thank you for the information, I was just suspicious is all, I think that's fair before having all the info like I do now. So apologies to anyone who I upset. I still think it should be a free upgrade for all players console or otherwise. BHM New Street has been far too empty from the start.

 

Quite literally the opposite of my point as I've tried to point out. Perhaps I'm not explaining myself very well. I'm just gonna quit trying.

The DLC should be free for all, as it should have been included in the BCC from the start.

£12.99 to add a TT with extra turbostar services that have been reskinned with skins that already exist in A. a mod and B. the creators club. I'm saying that DLC is becoming less and less.

 

Why should console players receive a free update? As you can read, the modded version took three months of work. DTG is not a charity organization—they need to earn money. I don’t find it strange that this is happening. In fact, I actually welcome these kinds of packages with a little something extra, like what's now happening with the Class 170 and the upcoming update for Kassel-Würzburg with scenarios that offer much more than just a few extra trains. It’s not financially viable unless you add something extra. Personally, I’m definitely willing to pay for it. The enjoyment you get in return is worth it, if you ask me. Community modding is often more limited anyway.

 

I would argue in this case the mod offers more having seen what this DLC plans to add and as well as played the mod. If you wanna pay then pay. But I don't think dovetail is hurting for cash.

The update should be free for ALL.

 

IvyJoanTurner
Those trains are even for free? That’s the reason this pack exists. Sorry, I didn’t quite follow your point of view. This pack is a trainpack with an extra extended timetable....

 

And they are not just reskins the interiors have been changed as well.

 

Funny how often gamers can't comprehend something cost money to make, and therefore is sold for money

 

No it shouldn't.
The mod by the other chap is PC only.
The upcoming dlc, which I have played* is for the PC and consoles and entirely different than the PC only mod.
The units have had interiors redo e and the sounds have been done as well as the suspension model been added and of course the liveries as well as the light clusters on the outside of the cabs. Thats sufficient work there as well the extended timetable for justification for payment irrespective of your rather limited views.
If you dont like it then no one is forcing you to buy it.
I have played it and on my second run driving the 170, there were 3 x170's, 2 class 390's a 350 , a 323 and on platform 1 in New Street alone and a TFW 150 had just pulled in stinking the place out..... .

I definitely like this pack. But yes I think it should be paid for.

Hentis

 

Finally got to watch the stream. Thoughts:

1. Nice to have a guest on the stream [deleted; insulting - DTG Harry]

2. Even with the windows down, sounds from the diesel engine were rather muted.

3. Even with the windows down, the AI 170's and the other passing trains were silent.

4. BNS was thankfully fuller, but still not as busy with comings and goings as I imagine it normally is. However, as a whole, the revised timetable does make the route busier, which it should when you're starting pretty much from zero traffic.

5. Once again, MP chose not to show any night time activity. Of course those of us who own the route are well aware of the complete power outage that afflicts the City of Birmingham after sunset. Perhaps the city fathers need to increase property taxes to pay the electricity bill. Either way I'm sure the route is still undriveable at night.

6. The " new " train is a very good model ( or reskin depending on your pov ). inside and out and certainly adds color and diversity to an otherwise rather dull bus stop route.

Still don't think I want to pay $17 plus tax for what is essentially a layering in of an existing train. Something for a later sale methinks.

 

Speak for your'e self you did not find any post here on the forums that will related to high prices from my side. Yes some people are Vocal but i'm not so its not fair to say "you all protest about prices"... Sorry a little bit strange

 

Just catching up with the news, and very happy to hear that they plan on bringing the Fife Circle 170 up to the new standard as well, along with long-awaited sound fixes. The route is genuinely quite nice, and it really seems like the train sound issues kinda ruined it for many people.
Perhaps they’ll use this opportunity to take a look at some of the great feedback that was posted after the Levenmouth branch update was released… there are quite a lot of things that would be easy to fix.

Also, on my way through all the replies, I had to read through this nonsensical discussion (mainly initiated by one individual) about the DLC idea being stolen from a mod and so on… it’s good to see that, despite all the disagreements we often have on here, we can still unite and call out people who post absolute bollocks (and thereby distract from the actual purpose of this thread, which is to talk about the DLC itself).

 

Nice addition for BCC. I`ll get it.

 

Just touching on your feedback of the stream itself, I would add that the streams are more & more difficult to actually watch. I stopped watching them routinely a few years ago now because of the decline in quality, but even the ones I do try to watch are just filled with nonsense. Constant ‘banter’ about the 66, Q+A’s which ignore the majority of the thread Q’s & then it’s just Q’s which have been answered by the gameplay already. More time spent reading the question or checking the list then actually answering them & then when we do get someone who will coherently discuss the subject of the stream, they’re just spoken over or barely get to speak at all.

It was a 90 minute stream & barely half of it was actually showing the 170’s, which would be fine if the other half was letting Tyler discuss his work & what he wanted to do going forward, but no it was just mostly utter nonsense.

Oh & my favourite thing of all time was present too - “I’m going to be quiet now so you can hear the train” followed by whichever community ‘manager’ barely managing 15 seconds of silence.

It’d be great to see some pre recorded videos, specifically showing off the content, similar to what AP do for their previews. Rivet already do something similar & I think it would be a nice idea to extend on their walkarounds.

 

Oh I agree with pretty much all of that. They finally get someone who's familiarity with the subject matter enables them to talk clearly and informatively, only to be talked over by a lot of meaningless banter and incomplete thoughts and sentences. When you invite an expert onto the stream, the presenter should not inject themselves into the conversation, merely prompt the guest to talk extensively about the subject of the stream.


And even when there is an attempt at Q&A, there are perhaps 2 or 3 questions and then..... back to the nonsense.

I never watch live streams anymore and only skim through the recording if I remember to, as in this case, hoping for some useful footage, especially nighttime driving, which never happens unfortunately.

And I agree, a promotional video without DTG personnel would be more useful.

 

Thanks for that overview, saves me watching the stream and spending £13 on the pack. Seems claims the sounds have been sorted were somewhat exaggerated then, though will see how they are received once it goes on sale. BCC is a fairly tedious route to drive anyway and the core is still the all stations bus stop runs in the 323, all the 170’s add is a quick 15 - 20 minute run on the southern section which IIRC still has substantial issues with the scenery, never fixed. Frankly it’s the wrong time for DTG to be issuing this sort of DLC anyway - £13 for a reskin pack plus timetable, or keep that as 25% covered of the likely cost to buy the TSW6 Deluxe pack with three routes and two additional train sets.

 

I am interested in that package, but I haven’t bought BCC. Regret it a bit that I didn’t get it when it was on sale, but people said the route looks empty. No word from Dovetail 3 month ago that a new pack would add layers. I am not buying BCC at full price and consequently not this package. As I am on XBox and I don’t expect Dovetail to discount it like they did for their beloved Steam players, it will be a loss-loss situation.

 

BCC route will be on sale at somepoint (xmas more so) Xbox sales are really down to Microsft in saying how many DTG can have unlike Steam (who get the most) and then Sony who have a few sales. Its not a bad route although yes it is empty as it only came with the 323. At the time in 2019 this was released there was no WCML and 390 or 350. So nothing else would really go run on there. There was only word from Dovetail in Julys roadmap that there would be a Rivet Gamepack for BCC. With the addition of the 170 pack and the timetable the route does look really good. It will be a route where I will be visiting more frequently in my streams if it gets picked out or chosen by my community.

Hentis

 

DTG Harry
Very cool, but what's happening with it? They should have done this in QA instead of now, right?!

 

Thinking of getting this pack , but is the PIS working on PC / steam now ?

 

Phil567 Yes its fixed

 

Well obviously this is aimed at me and my recent post.

I would simply say that, if you put something out there for public consumption, whether it's on TV, radio, the Internet or whatever medium, the overall impression or quality of the presentation is open to criticism and that was my purpose. I certainly do not mean to upset any individuals and, if I did, I unreservedly apologize.

I can not be expected to know about anyone's medical or neurological condition and your providing this information is very much appreciated. Now that you have made us all aware, I will consider that in any future criticism.

However, I stand by my overall opinion of the stream in question.

 

I am probably one of Rivets biggest critics...

But I will say this, overall I'm still impressed with this add on as it's doubled up as a new variant of the Class 170 (which is nicely modelled, DTG could also learn how to make wheel sets this nice and detailed), and a enhancement of the BCC route which has playable services outside of the Class 170. If you stand at Birmingham New Street, it is now a hive of activity and based off of the 1:1 timetable. I feel for the price of the DLC, that I've got 2 things for the price of 1 and it is most definitely worth the investment... Not only can I enjoy the 170 services, but I can enjoy all of the Class 323 services which is the work horse of the route.

The model of the Class 170 itself is absolutely lovely. Whilst improvements to the sound of the Class 170 have made the unit far better, the implementation is still slightly 'off'. For example, running sounds have improved dramatically, however they are only present during acceleration and then turn off again when the PBC is set in 'idle'. This is a small issue that can be easily fixed. Overall the ambience of the Class 170 cab has improved too, and the new suspension and physics are a really nice touch. For me personally the sounds, feel like they have been improved, but the running sounds are the things that need tweaking for perfection and need to be consistent when the train is moving, rather then when the train is just accelerating. The other small thing is the whining sounds still occuring at 85mph+.

I can actually see work has gone into this DLC and I'm overall satisfied with the product and I think Tyler deserves a sincere pat on the back for this as he has done a smashing job. The entire route has been turned from a ghost town into a thriving route.

I think, like with any add on, we should give Tyler or any other developer working on this particular DLC a chance to at least implement some fixes and patches as it is only fair. I'm fairly confident the feedback will be acknowledged this time and sorted.

For once I do feel (only a personal opinion), that some of the negative feedback is slightly over the top. I feel assured by the quality of work Tyler has put into this that it will receive some TLC to iron out any issues. I wouldn't say there's any more or any less minor bugs then any other add on...

As I've said I'm one of Rivets biggest critics, but for once and it takes a lot for me to say this, I think they've done a smashing job and I sincerely appreciate BCC being brought to life as it's been one of the most requested things and this 170 pack and timetable pack is something that is going to draw me back into BCC and play it a lot more.

I think the only thing missing, is small updates to the route from DTG themselves that would really allow this route to flourish completely.

The patch yesterday was also extremely quick!
So yeah, I'm enjoying it, the Class 170 has been really improved physically and with sounds and I think it's a great little add on... Just needs some minor audio fixes and altering that I've mentioned to 'perfect it'.