Three New Unannounced Timetables - Speculation

Just read this on the WMT/XC 170 Preview Q&A Thread via DTG Harry (via Tyler):

Q: Are there any plans to introduce more gameplay packs like this in the future, bringing timetable improvements to older routes?
A: Yes, Tyler has done three other timetables for unannounced projects on existing routes. We won't leak any more information today, though!

Not that we needed anything extra to speculate over, but I wonder what existing routes have unannounced completed bonus timetables!?

Could it be the Holy Grail of Thameslink on the BML??

 

BML is a good shout tbf but I remember someone from DTG saying that BML is so big that it will take a lot of time, hence they’ve never touched it. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure I’ve heard that in the past.

I’m in trying to think of routes that could do with a timetable update. Glossop maybe?

 

Nobody said that we will get the existing rolling stock. Perhaps these packs will come out after the release of the new rolling stock (TSW6 core).
Please don't let this be part of the deluxe pack.

 

Yep. I’ve heard similar things. Although DTG are reluctant it didn’t stop the Class 700 TL Mod happening, and it might not stop ‘one of us’ having a go ourselves?

Glossop could emulate the Airport Commuter with both a weekday and Sunday timetable couldn’t it?

 

Most definitely. Assuming the routes are confined to Rivet or DTG products though!

 

What about the existing candidates? Come on, it's Bakerloo Line.
Trafic for WCML - check.
710 - check.

 

Probably easier just to add Bakerloo route to the WCML OS file for TSW6! I recall some comments that the track layout wasn't of suitable quality for the WCML timetable to be just ported over onto the Bakerloo route.

 

I greatly suspect this means that the Class 220/221 is incoming, hence 'unannounced projects' and it would definitely feature on East Midlands, Manchester Airport and either Glossop or ECML as AI traffic.

It would also feature on Birmingham, so I wonder if timetable gaps have been suitably left?

 

I'll guess East Coastway will be a likely candidate. Rivet will sell the blue 313201 as a pack, along with a new timetable to finally give Brighton and other parts of the route a glow-up in traffic density. I suppose it could already be possible, since Tyler already created an ECW timetable as a mod on TSC?

 

Imagine if it’s both steam era routes with early diesels or some new steam locomotives (maybe a tank engine)

would also love northern trans pennine and Tess valley
(And don’t even think about replying with “oh they put a hold on steam development”, we all know that hence imagine)

 

He said gaps have been left so a voyager can be added easier if it comes to the game.

Kind of sounds sus imo - maybe we are getting one soon

 

If Tyler is involved in any project of Rivets, and it is anything like the extensive timetable he has created for BCC, Rivet might... Just might be able to turn some of their image around in regards to their previous awful timetables.

Tyler (genuinely and sincerely), seems like a very knowledgeable chap on timetabling and also in TSW in general. He come across very well in the stream.

However, I'm not going to count my eggs in one basket just yet, I'll have to see if the rest of Rivets '3 projects' hold up in other areas. I'll sit on the fence for now, but as I say Tyler might be the person who can turn some of Rivets work around... But, lets not put to much pressure on the poor chap just yet!

For now though, it's a positive step in the right direction for sure. But, I'm not entirely sold just yet, and I will be sitting on the fence for now and will not be involved in any content purchases until I'm confident quality control has been remedied.

 

Holiday Express

 

Tyler seemed fantastic - I agree! I was really impressed that he’d researched my turn back siding question too, was very kind of him. Things are looking up in Rivet land

 

Selling what, though?

Given they've kept them unannounced that suggests that they'll all be with a loco/gameplay DLC (outside shot of a remaster which basically only leaves West Cornwall for Rivet... Much in need tbf)

The Bakerloo would offer AI, sure, and a small segment of the Overground runs which are drivable in full on WCMLS anyway.

The 1938TS covers any railrour pack and iirc the track on Bakerloo isn't set up for the 710 nor the WCML.

I can't imagine any pack for Bakerloo tbh and short of a remaster (rebuild?) by DTG I don't think it's even possible.

It also wouldn't introduce a new variant or TOC like the 170 has, as we have the 5-car 710 on WCMLS, too.

 

BML could be one of the three contenders, but in all fairness I couldn’t see myself bothering with it. The route is an old relic now compared to newer routes with improved lighting.

Maybe one day another Liam will present themselves to us and give BML some refurbishment which is so badly needed.

 

Surprise BML remaster with 700/1 as loco DLC?

 

Separating the TT and the route, if the hard part is already complete then would it really be a mountain to climb to add TSW5/6 standard features?

 

Seeing as it was a ‘coincidence’ that this 170 pack copies a mod, then maybe..

 

I hope we get a class 171 for East Coastway. If a new timetable is set in 2017/2018 like his mod, then they should still be going to Brighton. Hopefully the fact that the timetable mod is already on TSC doesn't prevent them from doing an official version
If we do get a class 171, I hope the coupler works properly, I think the whole reason for adding a Deller coupler was to allow it to couple to class 377's in emergencies

 

If it’s gameplay packs & there are 3 of them. I think a 153 on MML is a sure bet.

Could also see a Lumo & Hull trains 80X pack for ECML. Maybe even a HT 170 on an early 2000’s TT with the HST.

Both of the above would also benefit from the XC 170 too.

 

The thing with Lumo is that they don't stop at any of the stations on the route, so they'd just be AI. Hull Trains I'd like, though.

 

Neither do many of the XC services in the BCC pack, but for gameplay purposes they will.

 

I understand it’s lots of work to overhaul the livery and interior in the case of the 170s, and some exterior changes I believe people mentioned. However the 700/1 is (as far as I know) mainly a case of adding in some more of the pre-existing carriages with (AFAIK) no/minimal other changes. As someone who bought the 700/0, I wouldn’t be very pleased having to buy this again.

 

I suppose it would be blanketed by the Timetable and Scenario’s being the ‘new’ part!

 

I imagine the cost of that pack would be down to making the TT & actually testing it. These packs aren’t exactly just adding a substitution with a different colour train. In any case I’d have no expectations for a BML update of any kind.

 

That would be awesome, along with the new Airbus planes landing at Gatwick instead of the monstrosities we have now.

 

Are these 3 unnanounced projects confirmed to be UK based?
I see a lot to all of the speculation be for UK routes.
For what i know rivet does content for nearly all existing countrys in Tsw.
Maybe they bring a new loco or some kind of wagon to Berninaline/Arosaline.
I could also think of some german routes like Ruhr Sieg Nord which they could modify theire Flirt 1 to be the german Flirt 2 version for. As seen with Birmingham, Left rhine and Kassel Würzburg, even newer Tod4 routes often lack an interesting timetable.

 

Well they mentioned it was Tyler who had plans, so we don’t know for sure which countries he’d be interested in.

 

Personally I wish that they would tell us which 3 routes were going to be 'upgraded' as there is quite likely to be a modder somewhere beavering away at improving the game only to find out that he/she shouldn't have bothered. (Or would have been better spending their time on a different route).

Had DTG lived up to their promises with the Public Editor then every user would have already had a number of these types of 'upgrades' for free. (Plus a number of exciting new freeware community routes to explore).

The fact that they haven't lived up to that promise might now lead some to speculate that it has been done on purpose.

 

Tees Valley with Pacer?
Modern timetable for Niddertalbahn?

 

I would love to see RSN and RRO remade or remastered and at the same time, joined together as one continuous map.

 

Well a lone modder did it and did it very well. Now BML seems empty unless I’m driving a 700.

 

In case you forgot the majority of players are on console and don't have access to mods.

So these TT upgrades will sell. Even if no PC users buy them.

And they benefit the majority of players since they don't have access to mods.

 

Posting about 'consoles only' is missing the point.

Had DTG lived up to their promises about the TSW Editor then ALL players (not just Consolers or PCers) would have already seen these types of packs added for free. Also many freeware routes would also have appeared. (The Editor forum will give you an idea of what we could have had).

Think how much more you would enjoy the game if there was a Creators Club of new Freeware Routes and of new Freeware timetables. Think how much more lively the forums would be if you could watch people building things that actually saw the light of day.

Think of mods as how they could have been rather than how they are.

Instead of saying that "a paid for add on will benefit the majority of players" instead ask "Why am I having to pay for something that I could have got for free from a motivated community".

Who has blocked that development?
Who is financially benefitting from that blocking?
(By the way the answer isn't console players nor is it PC players).

Just a thought

 

Obviously modders are things DTG don’t necessarily have access to. They have mentioned in the past that modders can do things that DTG cant do.

 

Would love a modern timetable for Shap.

 

The problem is there is no possible way for the editor in the console world. The way MS and Sony have made the way consoles work everything has to be certified.

You are thinking with the freedom a PC gives you which consoles do not have that due to all the restrictions imposed but the companies that make them.

It's not DTG's fault it won't work.

And I don't work for free so I don't expect them too.

Any modder can contact dovetail to publish thier mods look at Johannes. But the big 2 charge to have stuff published so it costs $$$$.

Mildmay started as a mod.

That is the sacrifice we console users make and some are willing to pay for a better experience.

 

There would inevitably be limitations, but to say there's "no possible way" for any sort of route and more full featured scenario editor just isn't true. Lots of games even on console have some sort of stage or level builder, games like Little Big Planet & Super Mario Maker have it as the core focus even. You probably couldn't create new assets, but a editor like the one built into Trainz where you're placing down existing assets and textures, do terrain manipulation, and AI pathing could likely be done on console with some effort.

 

But unshareable unfortunately. Thats the problem and why route sharing is not coming to Trainz console either, I know this as I am a beta tester for them on Xbox.

 

From consoles? Maybe. But mods created on PC can be shared with console players. There is many games with integrated ingame mod manager using the mod.io(or they own servers) for sharing mods.

 

Not necessarily because lets use Snowrunner as an example

The amount of mods available on console with Mod.io are less than 20% of what mods are availble if you look at PC.

It not the same amount because any mod must still be certified according to Sony and Microsoft rules. So they slowley have to QC all the mods before they can show to download on the console menus.

They are different, how many pages of mods are on PC on Xbox we only have 4.

Same with MSFS we only get about a quarter of the DLC available. And on their forums they even list the amount of mods still awaiting QC for console. And its 3 times bigger than PC.

In fact here is the description when you search it up so it is common knowledge.

Console modding is limited compared to PCs primarily because consoles are closed platforms with strict control over what software can be installed and run. This contrasts with the open nature of PCs, where users can download and install software from various sources, including modding tools and modified programs. Additionally, console manufacturers have security concerns and performance considerations that influence their policies on modding.

The main restriction is if the mod changes or adds scripting MS and Sony won't allow it and both routes and TT mods do just that, where Scenario Editor, Livery Designer, Formation designer do not.

 

Same thing with transport fever 2 and it missing a hell of lot of pc mods

 

My best guess is a modern West Cornwall Local since its a Rivet product and Tyler is working for Rivet as well. Maybe with new CrossCountry stock added if we get something with TSW 6 that is not a 170.

Probably an NTP or TVL remastered timetable is on the way, since both have been picked up by modders it would make sense to give console users something as well, maybe in a different period than the modded timetables.

Personally I would enjoy a remastered TT on MSB, and it could be linked to a Rivet product with the 204, I doubt they would change the loco though. To have the variety that is on Maintalbahn even if still on the "old" route without the new tunnels

 

I think I owe the OP an apology as my post about mods and basically me looking for DTG to provide more within the game to benefit ALL players has possibly derailed the thread. However it is a topic that I am interested in and, it sounds like, so are others. (Our friendly Mr Potato Man seems to have a fair bit of knowledge on the subject). So can I suggest the following?
1) We let this thread go back to its original purpose of discussing routes.
2) I'll kick off a new thread to discuss game development, the editor and whether DTG can provide access to more tools to everyone to add extra interest to the game etc I've also got a very simple poll in mind that, when you see the Title, will make sense to the points we have started to discuss here. (Might put this in a separate thread).

Not trying to own the debate, or to bash DTG, but think we can have an interesting discussion around some different points. And maybe we'll all learn something. (And DTG might too). If I get a few likes them I'll set up the points in (2) and we can have a separate Brainstorming type session. It might be fun

 

Updated BML with 700s.
Birmingham Cross City with 730/1s
WCML South with 730/2s

All three would be brilliant.

 

Cornwall is a very good shout considering it was originally intended to run GWR stock but DTG lost the licence. If this is the start of Rivet's redemption arc then they should also put in the effort to remaster the route.

 

There's a massive difference between "You can have a editor, but you can't share the creations from it", and "There is no possible way for the editor in the console world", which is the phrase you used. I also just don't buy that, most of the games I can think of with level creator have online sharing possible, including ones from the console makers themselves. Frankly that seems more like Trainz don't want to deal with the moderation costs than anything.

 

Probably worried about setting fire to Gen 8 Consoles! But really it’s just a TT and rivet have employed a modder to build the new 170 TT for BCC, so it can be done.

 

Definitely a contender considering the issues with licensing at launch, and it being a Rivet product. They’d want to make their own stuff better first, surely.

The lack of a HST on the route was a massive let down. Whether it’s a Valenta IC Swallow or one of those quieter GWR ones I’m not fussed! Throw a Night Riviera in there too and we’ll be riding their coattails.. maybe!