Tsg Upcoming Expert Loco Speculation

In the 101 gameplay pack livestream at around the 43 minute mark. TSG answered positive to a question of whether there will be a new expert loco in TSW6, they went further on to say that we’d have to wait less than a month to hear more about it (info will most likely be revealed during the dovetail direct).

What do you guys think the new expert will be, or what are you hoping for? I was a big fan of the 101 and have high hopes for the upcoming expert loco.

My current guesses are:
- ICE3Neo / BR 408
- OBB Railjet 1116 Taurus and driving trailer
- IC2 DB146.5 and Twindexx Vario coaches


(Btw do you guys think what was said at 21:10 was a slip of the tongue reveal of a koln/frankfurt route???)

 

I'd hope for some additional Bundesbahn content:

BR110 with m-Wagen
BR141 with Silberling driver cab car
BR103 altered to 1980s with new Intercity coaches

They do a good job and whatever it'll be, it's a must have. They deserve the support.

Kind regards

 

Really hope for Railjet ÖBB 1116 Taurus + cab-car

 

Y

Yes to any of them!

 

Creo que esta vez tendremos una locomotora de carga.

¿Tal vez un BR 185?

 

It'd likely be something that can benefit from in depth systems, so probably newer with plenty of computer screens.
Vectron or 1116 maybe?

 

I hope it is either a diesel or a bi-mode loco, with mechanical failures as well as just flipping circuit breakers to reset things.
I would say the most important thing in an expert loco is an engine/machine room, so I don't know how interesting an expert multiple unit would be.
In certain circumstances I think it could be interesting though, for example an expert BR 605 would be cool, which could come with a backdated and extended Hamburg - Lubeck, and layer onto other routes as the Advanced TrainLab.

 

Expert Thomas

 

BR 248 ???

 

Doubt it’s going to be an all new loco. More likely one of the existing collection, maybe something they worked on with DTG.

 

Maybe ICE4. It will come at some point for tsw of that I am sure. So why not directly as an expert loco?
Vectron probably has too many variants. Which one would they choose for an expert loco?
Br146 could be possible but on the other hand would be too similar to the br101.
ICE1 would be a my personal favorite as an expert version

 

It was said in a german preview stream for an already released DLC (I don't remember which one), that the upcoming Expert Loco will be a new, not yet existing loco for this game. So that narrows it down quite a bit already and excludes some favorites.

With one of the lead developers of the Expert 101 working at DB Fernverkehr, and I assume also being heavily involved with the new expert loco, I assume it's some form of long distance train. Especially because you need quite a bit of knowledge on how the real loco works which is a lot of effort if you don't already know it. My main guess would be some form of IC2, probably BR147 with the doubledecker coaches. Would also finally have some high entry dostos in this game. But I definitely could see an ICE3 neo or ICE4 as well.
If it's a freight or regional loco, I would be pleasently surprised, but for now I will doubt it

 

Does the railjet run on semmeringbahn? If so that’s probably a solid shout. If not, then maybe something for Frankfurt fulda

 

Railjet runs on Semmering, Vorarlberg and Salzburg-Rosenhein

 

Fair enough! However that being the case, it would make sense to release both a standard and expert version. I would Day One a Railjet but don't necessarily want the hassle of running it or cost of buying it as Expert only.

 

I was about to say the exact same thing! Absolutely fair to have a remake of an existing loco with the premium price tag as the choice is there, but we're in dangerous territory if new locos are being released only at the £25+ category.

 

From what I understand, can't you put the expert on "simple" mode or whatever it's called and use it as a "regular"? I was talked about, but I really have no use for the BR 101 so didn't buy it.

 

There is an option to disable expert mode, but regardless of whether you use it or not the product still costs £30

 

My guess would be the Vectron, Maik said elsewhere an expert loco basically needs computers to truly be expert, so if we’re going with the theme of German & exists already, the Vectron is the best candidate for it.

In any case whatever it is, hopefully it’s not something that’s going to have endless layering issues the 101 has had, also I’d agree it shouldn’t be a new loco/consist such as the Railjet. Locking that behind expert pricing would be pretty poor.

 

I didn't said that anywhere. What i said or meant is that screens are a big part of the expert stuff when they are there. I think people would not accept a loco being expert when the screens are just basic as always. So a loco with screens being expert needs them to work like IRL.

 

So for example a 110 has the same chance to be an expert loco as a 193 does? Or is there a slight preference for more modern units with more of the digital expert aspects?

 

No, as it has been confirmed the expert loco will be a completely new one.

 

Yes, of course. It's not up to what type of train it is. Also "expert" may be declared differently by different developers. Fact is that creating one of those is not practicable for most developers as there is way to much time going into it. The 101 Expert and probably the following one massively benefit from the guys who are making it (actual drivers, a physics perfectionist ^^ and some more) who all doing that mostly in spare time (so they don't have the need to gain profit out of it since they all have jobs or being students). That is the reason i would not expect a huge amount of those DLCs in the near future. Even creating a standard loco DLC for TSW is demanding enough.

 

I don't think it would. It's more work, and the two versions of the loco are going to cannibalize each other's sales.

The other way round (making an Expert version of a standard loco) still has the problem of the two versions competing with each other, but at least you save some work on making the Expert version, and people who already have the standard loco will probably still be willing to buy the Expert loco if the upgrade is big enough - it worked for the 101, but locos like the Vectron or 194 are too new and too good for that to be a viable option in my opinion.

Just making an all-new Expert loco avoids that problem altogether. I also don't think that every train needs to be available at every realism/price point. If it was an important, unique piece of rolling stock which nothing else can reasonably stand in for (say, an HST) then sure, I would agree it would be bad if it was only available as an Expert version. But if it's a modern-ish German regional or freight locomotive: there are lots of these already in game, so I don't think it's too much of a loss for anyone if only nine out of ten different classes of loco are available in a non-Expert version.

 

Thanks for the detailed answer.
At first i had not that much of an interest into the expert 101 because of the pricing.
After some days of watching a bunch of reviews for it i couldnt resist buying it.
Now i cant wait for the next one and no matter which loco it will be it will be awesome. The effort put into it is just great.

 

I don't think a developer is going to comment on such a question publicly as it involves sensitive information regarding licensing.

 

But in the case of the expert 101 this was actually openly discussed, on the forum, discord and even during live streams. It was a passion project of several people, one of them being a driver of the real thing. At the time it was considered possible due to the fact that the loco is in the process of being phased out anyway. Not sure that is still a „need“ for an expert loco, but this is how the 101 expert came about. I don’t seem to remember them saying anything about the direkt relationship to DB itself, but surely this must be good, otherwise this would not have been possible.

And now it is preserved digitally, even after the last ones have been send to the bender, which is a great thing;-)

 

It seems like, in that case, DB is very supportive as Matt said in the July Roadmap stream (starting at Minute 39:23), so that should answer the relationship question. Some of them being real train drivers in the TSG team is also a very big part of the process, as Maik Goltz explained. Leading to what i find very interesting and was mentioned here before by Tyio98 is that at least one of them works at DB Fernverkehr and maybe the chance for a long distance train are higher then for some kind of regio/freight/etc. loco.

The best part is that its kind of confirmed by Lukas to be announced at the summer direct on august 26.

 

The idea that we will only upgrade already existing locomotives for Expert DLC's is definitely not something that came from us. We will absolutely make new locomotives for Expert DLC's.

In a sense we already did, since the BR 101 Expert included the Bpmmbdzf cab car (though the above statement concerns the main vehicle of the Expert DLC being totally new). In fact, if that cab car existed already in the game it is likely that the BR 101 Expert never would have been made

 

But then it becomes shame if a much requested loco (e.g. the DB 141) then only becomes available behind a £24 “expert” paywall rather than the £13 for a regular add on. And I don’t feel having both versions available will necessarily affect sales - the standard 101 does nicely for me and I can live without another cab car, so had the 101 at release been it’s expert pack then I probably wouldn’t have bothered. Leaving the price aside, not everyone wants the bother of setting up an expert level loco. Sure, sometimes it can be fun but looking across to SimRail where many of the SP scenarios actually require you to do a cold and dark start on the loco or EMU, it’s a right pain particularly with no prompting as to what steps you missed or where you went wrong.

 

Let's say you're a developer who wants to make an Expert 141 and you're deciding whether or not you also want to make a Standard 141 alongside.

There's not a clean split of two groups of players who will only buy one specific version each - some people will still be happy to buy an Expert loco, even if a Standard version would be their preference if given the choice. So a number of your customers for the Standard 141 will be people who would've bought the Expert one otherwise. The only sales you actually gain by making both versions are from those people who really don't want an Expert loco.

BUT in pretty much the same time in which you could make an Expert 141 and Standard 141, you could also make, say, an Expert 141 and Standard 212! And sure, you'd lose some 141 sales, but there are more people who will buy either an Expert 141 or a Standard 212 (and quite a few people will actually get both of them!), than people who will buy any 141.

 

Well I would definitely take a 212, though not sure which route it could run on. In Zusi, you can thrash them along the Obereruhrtalbahn.

 

I'd love a 212 as well, but isn't it the part of my message that's by far the least relevant to the actual topic?

 

Yes well on that we will have to agree to disagree.

 

BR 151 with Faals 150 with automatic coupling?

 

Class 66 would be ideal: There is a certain YouTube creator who points out how bad the Class 66 is in game based on his real life driving experiences. All modern UK freight in game is hauled by Class 66 and it badly needs updating. Making the Class 66 as a new expert locomotive could be an opportunity to wright a wrong and generate some revenue in the process; so could make business sense to DTG.

 

Hate to burst your bubble but DTG aren’t involved in the creation of this upcoming expert loco. This is TSG, who only make German Content.

 

They would fit perfectly on Niddertalbahn.

 

DTG will never make an expert loco because they need quick profits, so DTG's own projects have a predetermined timeframe (~3 months) and a standard resource level, nothing too advanced
unlike TSG and JT, where project development takes (at least) 6 months, with some taking more than a year, as they don't aim for quick profits

 

Hmmm...it's actually more a wish than a guess...

but the loco, that is most missing in TSW, is actually the BR 120. Ok, I know they 're finally out of service since 2023, but quite a lot services that are in game done by BR 101 were actually done with the BR 120. And the BR 120 also ran with the cab car quite regularly.

 

While I agree from an accuracy perspective, the amount of hate the 66 already suffers because it is so prevalent (at the cost of their favorite loco that's uncommonly rare or not in service) drives many to fits of rage. Seeing the 66 get special treatment would likely cause some serious emotional outbursts and rage.
=-)
While amusing.... not sure about sales. having said that I only see TSG doing the "expert" thing so far so it'll be German content. Doesn't stop someone else from starting a passion project on their own of course, but it'd probably have to be someone who had experience working on a 66 or whatever.

To be honest, the amount of relatively "modern" content in the US is much higher. They even have 90s locos in "museums" (while also on the road) which I don't know of any 66s in museums able to be studied.

Your best bets I think would be a 47 for the UK or a Jeep from the USA.

Or something German of course...

 

BR120, BR151, BR180, BR189, BR402, ES64U4

 

I think it could be the BR232 Ludmilla,because it was said that they had to do it completely new

 

No, maik from tsg said that is his side project. Different people working on different things. So the team that does expert locos is different from the team that makes standard loco dlc like the 420 and 232

 

They could make the German Class 66 (dunno what they call it in Germany)

 

it is THE flagship longdistance service for OBB, so yes, it absolutely runs on those... and when the Semmering tunnel is finished, it will run via that and the Semmeringbahn will probably be mostly used for regional trains and light freight

hell to the yeah even though I dont play the expert DLC that much, it is still a masterpiece that deserved my money and I will most probably buy the new expert DLC as well, cos seriously, that kind of effort absolutely deserves support

 

Klasse Sechsundsechzig

 

I’ve never heard that personally. Usually just “Class” still pronounced in English (or as close as most people here get), but without the 66 often as we just have one “Class” - our locos are Baureihen and not classes after all.

 

In the TS it's called BR 266, apparently...

https://share.google/LE1KzpXZtxXw5XinX

 

Glad this is a brand new loco, one problem the 101 has is new routes are built with the 101 amateur layered in, leaving it up to TSG to build a seperate timetable for those with the 101 expert.

A new loco means where it gets layered in it, we will be able to play it day one, not after TSG have had to do a load of extra work.