it doesnt really have a home route, but it has separate "expert" timetables across multiple routes where both loco and the IC 1st/2nd class are fully simulated (like I have noticed and discussed at length shortly after launch, getting a Sifa Zwangsbremsung with this one is no joke and in most cases you end up screeching to a halt even if you recover quickly )... aka some routes only have this as substitution (only loco is expert simulation level) and some have "expert" timetable with everything simulated (often with cab car at the other end)
dal#7945 Train Sim World®: Salzburg – Rosenheim railway line and/or Train Sim World®: Dresden – Riesa local transport. Please note: For the complete experience, we recommend Train Sim World®: Salzburg – Rosenheim Railway and/or Train Sim World®: Dresden – Riesa Local Service. These DLCs are sold separately. This is a standalone product, and the original DB BR 101 is still available separately.
dal#7945 The official route for this addon is Salzburg Rosenheim but this addon pack that will come soon is for Kassel Würzburg
or you can have the expert mode on, do the tutorials, study the manual a bit (especially the current and upcoming final version are very informative and fun) and then just adjust the "chaos factor" aka fault simulation to 0 - you will still get the expert simulation of stuff and the fun stuff like safety systems data entry, but without systems going bonkers on you in the middle of a run (first rule - turn the train power/supply on, otherwise speedometer and other stuff will go dead on you very soon lol)
Do you have to be in expert mode to use sifa lzb pzb in the cab car lzb and pzb will not activate even tho the fuse is closed im missing something. Thanks
In the cab car its telling to turn lzb on even tho the fuse is closed and im on expert mode can some help. Thanks
the holy grail of TSW manuals to be precise ... once you master that you might as well apply for a DB job
Yes, but in non-expert mode you need to activate them. In expert mode they are on by default. In non-expert mode fault simulation is deactivated by default anyways. Again, you will find answers to your questions in the manual.
Thanks for your help but I have read the manual and cant find anything about how to turn on pzb in the cab car and when i close lzb fuse in the cab it doesn't activate . And I cant find anything else in the cab car to do with the lzb/pzb.
Im pretty sure to use PZB and LZB you still have to add the needed values into the PZB panel (like train lenght, brake percent etc).
Anyone got any tips on how to maintain speed in the cabcar i can never seem to keep a steady speed. Thanks
The cabcar is more difficult to drive and you need to be alert to drive this cabcar. So there is nothing more to do because there is no AFB
While playing with the BR 101 Expert in the new Kassel - Wurzburg Gameplay Pack, I noticed that the game is applying a scoring penalty for overspeed when I'm well under the limit. Example below: The UI (Top left) says I'm driving at 185Km/h, with a line speed limit of 200Km/h. The speedometer in the loco console also reads 185Km/h. If you look at the scoring on the top right, you will see that the game is incorrectly giving me a penalty for going over the speed limit. After the run, I looked at the report and as you can see I have always been under the speed limit but the game has applied several speeding penalties where it shouldn't (the red marks at the top of the graph). Initially I thought it was happening randomly, but after a while I noticed it usually happens when I'm going fast (170-200Km/h). Since the Kassel - Wurzburg route has many slopes and many of the journey chapters have services played in a rainy day, my guess is this is tied to speed detection in wheelslip situations. This example happened while playing the first scenario in the gameplay pack journey ("Interference"). Playing on PC/Steam.
Related to the bug in my previous post, I played the next service in the BR 101 Kassel - Wurzburg gameplay pack (it is a timetable service this time, IC 2177 Hamburg-Altona to Frankfurt). Same thing happened. The difference is that the analog BR 101 Expert is used for this journey service. In this case, you can see the speed difference between the loco speedometer and the in-game (UI) speed. In the picture below, you can see the UI speed is 185Km/h, the loco speedometer is 201Km/h (this is because of the wheelslip in a slope while raining, not the actual train speed) and the scoring penalty being applied. My guess is that the simulation of the speedometer in the "MFD" version of the 101 shows the corrected train speed that ignores the values of the wheel rotation when wheelslip is detected (same as the UI), while the analog speedometer always shows the speed based on the wheel rotation. IMHO, probably the simulation makes sense for both versions of the 101 but the scoring penalties should always be based on the actual speed of the train, and not the wheel rotation speed.
That is due to wheel slip. Unfortunately there is a mismatch between the MFD variant and the MFA variant. On the MFA variant the HUD speedometer uses the same value as the analog speedometer: the wheel sensor speed. This can shoot up if the locomotive is slipping excessively. On the MFD variant the speedometer on the screen uses the radar speed of the locomotive. However, IRL it most likely (based on similar locomotives, unfortunately the MFD is so rare we couldn't test it) uses the same speed sensor as the MFA variant and would be susceptible to slipping. I will change the MFD variant to match the MFA. That you get deducted for overspeeding due to slipping is kind of an unintended side effect and technically I could change both variants to use "ground speed" but IRL the driver is ultimately responsible for managing slip if the WSP isn't adequate and you get malfunctions or PZB interventions if this happens, or LZB transmission failure etc. EDIT: If you bring up the old (shift+5) HUD you will see it shooting up on both variants.
I understand your reasoning, but I don't think that is a good choice for TSW because of the way the TSW UI works. If the UI says I'm driving at, lets say 185Km/h with a speed limit of 200Km/h, it will always show a white speed number in the UI (as if everything is perfectly fine) and not a yellow or red number. The game will apply the penalty if the loco speedometer reads above 200Km/h and show the message in the scoring area, but usually a player is not reading the scoring messages unless he sees the yellow or red number in the UI first. My point is, a good number of people will find out they have been doing something wrong when they take a look at the final report screen, and even then they might not know what they have been doing wrong. That is not a good user experience at all.
I hear you, and I'm undecided on what the best design is here, but remember that you can get PZB or LZB interventions due to the analog gauge "overspeeding" in wheel slip, that might be very confusing to players if the HUD didn't match. And if the HUD matches you get penalties (there's unfortunately no way to have 3 different readings: one for gauges, one for HUD and one for overspeed penalties). So I guess what I'm trying to say is that both ways have downsides. Maybe I'll do a poll to get a consensus and then I will go with that. Keep in mind though that there won't be any patches until TSW6 releases unfortunately. Hopefully at least on the MFA variant it is more obvious what is happening since the analog gauge matches the HUD. I think the main issue is that the MFD is "hiding" slip which it wouldn't IRL.
So the old HUD works in a way and the new one reads "air"speed? Sounds like there is an issue with the core before even getting to issues with the 101 itself, to me. I know I play with the old HUD and I always see wheelslip represented and the HUD speed go over the red limit with consequent penalty. I believe here the issue at hand is the DTG devs should decide on which one is the intended behaviour and equalize the two HUDs to be using that one. Should wheel or train speed be shown in the HUD? And should the points penalty apply to going over max speed with the former or the latter? Ideally the answer to both questions should match. There's arguments for both being the considered speed, really. This was changed at some point in the last two years, before that the train speed was what would have given you a penalty, currently it is wheel speed. I find the current solution more realistic and less arcadey (they just need to update the modern HUD to reflect it, I guess). Or, you know, make it an option in the menu to pick which you'd prefer to be shown and checked against. But that won't happen....
Just noticed the problem is that the "minimal" HUD does not show the same speed as the "normal" HUD. As I was reading what you said I could not make any sense of it until I went back to the game and changed the HUD from "minimal" to "normal". You are talking about the experience with the "normal" HUD. I was talking about my experience with the "minimal" HUD. The "normal" HUD shows the speed as the speedometer of the MFA loco (based on speed of the wheels), while the "minimal" HUD show it as the MFD loco (based on the GPS speed). With the "normal" HUD you get an indication that you have wheelslip (it shows a red line in zigzag under the speed). With the "minimal" HUD you do not get any indication of wheelslip.
I just submitted a change to both* of the MFD BR 101s to now match the MFA variant in terms of the speedometer. Regarding the HUD speed behaviour I will talk with DTG since at least the old and new HUDs should match. *For those that didn't know the MFD comes in two variants based on the year simulated. Before circa 2006 the MFD is the older version (you can test this yourself by spawning the BR 101 MFD in the 1997 timetable on Linke-Rheinstrecke)
I think that will be an improvement, but without a change in the minimal UI it will still be problematic for those that use it.
I was trying to access the "Antriebe" page on the left MFD while in multi traktion with another 101, however, I was not able to select the page. It (the button) is still available, however, pressing it does not change the displayed page. Is this simply not implemented at the moment? Or is this even prototypical? EDIT: Another question, which I have already posted here: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...play-pack-feedback-thread.92921/#post-1025094 however, I feel belongs in this thread: "I have a question to the new physics model of the 101, though. I love this and it definately feels "right", if I can even say this, not driving trains for a living... however, I have also noticed that there is basically no difference anymore between driving outside or inside a tunnel. Obviously you never know which of the tunnels were actually configured correctly during the development of KWG, however, I do remember, driving many freight trains at TSW3 times through these tunnels, that many of them are set up correctly as "tunnels" and the slipping stopped once you entered the tunnel. While I would assume that it is realistic to not have a sudden "completely dry" feeling once you enter a tunnel, I would certainly expect the slipping to get less during a ceratin amount of time driving within the tunnel, no?!"
Although i'm on Epic and can't get this pack, it is incredible how detailed this loc is and how much i have learned from the new streams and these questions here!
My two cents: you are right, HUD is what's wrong and should be changed. Especially if you have two HUDs that each shows something different, then it's clear that it's Dovetail who f'd up. Ideally you would also not get point deductions for speeding, but for excessive wheelslip directly.
It hardly helps with the original locos but it definitely does with the expert 101. Be careful how much power you apply. Keep the sand applied, not just a little press of the button once in a while. Work your way up from little to more power, once you slip pull back slightly… It’s definitely a challenge and that is what makes the difference;-) its really fun driving this in slippery conditions now!
The MFD version has a digital display instead of the analog gauges and MFA indicator tray. To input train data you would use the MTD instead of the ZDE train data input panel (which doesn't exist on this variant). The steps are explained in the manual. The IC and Einziganders variants are only different externally (different liveries) and the cab is the normal (MFA) version. I'd suggest the Vectron, but I'm biased since I did the Simugraph and simulation setup for it If you own the ÖBB 1116 that might be interesting as well. It does, but sanding is most effective at low speed and decreases with increasing speed. You can probably squeeze out another 40-60 kN of traction with sanding at lower speed, but you also should control the tractive effort manually and reduce power if the locomotive is slipping excessively since even though the BR 101 has a pretty effective wheel slip protection system it will work better when the target effort is close to the adhesion limit. If you go into the W page and then Adhäsion (or the Superschlupf pages) you can actually see the current adhesion limit, which should be helpful. Another way is simply to roll back the power until all axles stop slipping and then slowly increase until you find the locomotive starts to slip again and hold the power around that level or slightly below it. Since adhesion will vary with speed and location/weather conditions you will need to adjust this as you drive. Again: the manual is the best source here because it goes into more detail than what is possible in a forum post.
I would say apart from the very start from standstill, just add power more gradually than you would in dry weather... not much else you can do
I am really loving this gameplay pack! It may be the best $10 I have spent in TSW. The scenarios are good; I particularly enjoyed Interference. Keeping the 101 from slipping and up to speed requires a great deal of route knowledge for me. Having to drive the expert version doesn't allow just putting the AFB and throttle on max and sitting back. I have a detailed graph of the grades on the route so I can have an idea of when to push the throttle or let it off and apply the electric brake if needed. Or, when there is a quick change from down to up grade, for instance at Km 206.8, it is a challenge to know when to release the electric brake and let it approach 200 kph as the grade turns upwards. The Cab Car adds a whole new level. Driving the 103 rail tours is my next challenge. Many thanks!
Thanks for the recommendation about finding Adhesion under the W menu. I tested it out and it looks like you can tell when the Slip Detector (Meld Superschlup Aktive) goes active by seeing the yellow Aus box turn blue with Ein. Does this mean that you are actually slipping or that the slip prevention system has kicked in? I drive HUDless and I must admit that it can be difficult to tell when slip is happening other than seeing the speedometer spike rapidly. Is there a better way to detect slip?
I would recommend switching the left display to individual motors by "Z/Br" button (one of few screens that are available across the board on almost all locos, expert or not), then you can see how the individual motors get nervous when approaching the limits of adhesion, and how they completely desynchronize once slipping It's this screen:
As long as the ASG ("Antriebssteuergerät" = traction control computer) is active for the given traction motor, slip detection and prevention will be active. The WSP does this by measuring the slip percentage and deltaV. Slip percentage is the relative difference between the rotational speed of the axle and the translational speed of the locomotive ("ground speed"), while deltaV is the absolute difference between the axle speed and the locomotive speed. As it turns out the friction coefficient (a proportionality parameter that determines how much horizontal force you can place on an object before it starts to slide along the surface) between the wheel and railhead doesn't immediately start do decrease when the wheel begins to slip but it actually increases with a maximum around 10-20% slip, after which it decreases rapidly with further increase in slip. I'm not an expert in tribology (the science of friction) so I don't know all the physical reasons for this behaviour but one reason I have read about is that if you have a small amount of slip (10-20%), the contact area will get roughened up leading to greater static friction, if the slip exceeds this value the much lower kinetic friction begins to dominate. The wheel slip protection system of the BR 101 tries to take advantage of this characteristic to achieve maximum effort in slipping conditions. It has two regimes: normal slip control and super slip (superschlupf). In the normal mode the ASG tries to keep the slip percentage around 10%, but if the speed is above 60 km/h and you request more than 85% power, superschlupf becomes active and the target slip percentage changes to 20%. When Superslip is active that is indicated on the page you mentioned, you will also see when the target slip percentage is increased or decreased with the Ab/auf indications on the same page. For your question regarding how to best observe wheel slipping without using the HUD I would primarily look at the tractive effort gauge. The "bug" is the target effort commanded by either the driver or AFB, while the needle is the actual effort. If there is a difference between these the locomotive is slipping. The Z/Br page noir mentioned is also a great display for checking which axle is slipping. In real life the slipping can also be felt as vibrations in the locomotive body and heard. Lastly, the WSP uses doppler radar to get a precise measurement of the locomotive speed to use as reference for determining the slip percentage/delta V. If the doppler radar fails or is disabled with the LSS (as it can on the BR 101 Expert) the performance deteriorates a lot and the locomotive has to make do with comparing one axle to the average/remaining axles. If all axles are slipping nearly uniformly, in this situation, the WSP will struggle greatly
