Not quite sure why it’s necessary to have a forensic dissection of the “bus stop” paradigm. It’s a bit of harmless irreverence by those of us who dislike stop/start every two or three minute style routes, usually with a one handled EMU that has little or no decent traction sound. I for one will continue to use the phrase even if it does rankle some sensibilities!
I think so, although the delay in getting the 86 out may push things back. Would absolutely love to see some retro commuter action from JT. WCMLoS is fantastic, but it’s mainly adjusting the tap changers and watching for neutral sections that keep me awake sometimes. As I’ve said before, would love to see the Trent Valley section of the WCML in late 80s/early 90s. Express running and stoppers, plus freight.
Because it makes no sense and is extremely misleading. There are all types of bus routes just like there are with train services - ones that stop everywhere, ones that only serve two terminals and nothing else, ones that serve limited stops only and ones with express sections along part of the route. So essentially, every train service is a bus route rather than picking what suits a particular narrative. If you dislike a start stop route which is your prerogative, surely you’d just say “I dislike start stop routes” so everyone is clear what your referring to.
The difference between modern 1 handle or older 2 handle multiple units is the modern units have traction control and antilock brakes. From stationary you can give it full power and it will accelerate normally up to speed. 100% brakes and it will easily stop. I would compare the experience to driving my car. The older multiple units on the other hand will generally sit there wheel spinning or overload and trip out at full power. Apply the brakes to hard and they would overheat and become useless or the wheels would lock up and the platform would come and go. I remember riding the old 4ceps and the wheels would start slipping at 90mph. I prefer the older full train driving experience myself. Not everyone's cup of tea but that's the difference.
Definitely horses for courses. The much sought after but sadly still elusive addition of a NYC Subway route to TSW is by definition a bus stop route. Yet I would make that a Day One purchase. Expanding a little, bus stop also tends to refer to routes with little or no variation in service pattern. Every train calls at every station.
Going a bit bold with this one, but I think the UK core route might come with with Class 66 in either DB Cargo or EWS livery
One of the major differences for me between the " bus stop " style emus/dmus and diesel electric locomotives is that the modern trains are so overpowered for their size. Driving the 170 on BCC recently, it simply ignored the Lickey Incline even in icy conditions. A freight loco hauling 100 cars on SPG or CRR requires real skill to drive on steep grades. ( Plus those darned "prison cell " windshields. )
I like the “bus Stop” description… very clear what it means to me. So, since it is my prerogative anyway… I dislike Bus Stop services. Start Stop describes every type of route since they all start and stop eventually.. just the duration between those two states vary… of course this whole discussing should stop… and I am also embarrassed that I am adding to it… but not embarrassed enough to stop.
Yes and that's an additional issue with DTG's fixation on doing modern, to please the beancounters. So much of the train collection represents no real challenge to get it moving or stopped. Even though it's not a particularly new train I found the IC set in the Dutch route incredibly dull to drive. Only really needed the first three or four notches to accelerate, drop back to hold speed and with very little traction sound... bored.
I have bought all of the 'bus stop' routes, I am not completely against them really, but after a few sessions after initially playing, I don't get the strong urge to go back and do more services like with other routes. I would just rather see less of them in the TSW6 cycle as we have had loads in TSW5, that's all.
When TSW6 is released, if you decide to take the free/purchased upgrade, does TSW5 including all mods become TSW6 or is it a new reinstall of all DLC alongside TSW5? If so, does that mean all mods become redundant in TSW6 and we wait for the next batch of mods to be created?
It's a flippin good job that some people enjoy stopping at every station on a line using a one handled train. Otherwise the entire London Overground network would have no drivers and commuters would be very unhappy.
Well some of those 'bus stop' routes have existed for just under 200 years... They weren't bus stop routes when they started, and motorised buses weren't even invented by then. Would the same routes still be classed as 'bus stop' routes if they were steam powered? Probably not (horse and cart routes maybe!). I think the only thing that has changed over time is the simplicity of driving.
But on the real thing you have a much more tactile experience than staring at pixels on a 2D screen doing the same A to B or B to A run with little or no variation. IRL the weather conditions make a difference. There might be minor incidents that cause you to be delayed. A door might stick open at one of the station stops and require a kick to close it, followed by an entry in the repair book and call to Maintrol. A glamorous cougar might knock on your cab window, smile nicely and ask if this is the train to xxxxx.
Well there's a big difference between doing something you are paid to do and doing something for fun and enjoyment There's lots of times in my working life when I did tedious jobs just to keep earning a living and put food on the table. However, when I play a game I expect to be entertained rather than bored to tears with endless iterations of " Goblins ". I would concede that many bus and train drivers find their jobs thoroughly enjoyable, however repetitive. And there are many players who do the same. More power to them, but a train simulator worth its salt should cater to all tastes and right now TSW falls short in that regard.
Sounds lovely, there could be the 315 for the Shenfield stopper, and a slam door 309 or 312 (or something else) for the services that are now 720 run. The 86 could be added in as well. (Got Wikipedia to thank for knowledge of what trains ran where during the 1990s!)
I have to agree haha. As brilliant as Just Trains are, I do find WCMLOS a bit boring, Blackpool Branches was pretty good though. I still buy all their DLC to show appreciation for their effort though. I've never been one to enjoy the high-speed runs on TSC either, if it involved driving something like a HST on the GWML or a 444/450 on the PDL I'd always aim for services with frequent stops. I really enjoy the German content though. I spent June and most of July playing Frankfurt Fulda, Frankfurt S-bahn and Navakar Dresden (I spelt it wrong) and I've really enjoyed them, PZB is a very interesting system and keeps the gameplay engaging. I started spending more time so far in August on Main Spessart Bahn (probably spelt wrong too) but it's a blimmin' brilliant route for freight runs. None have been too long, and I especially enjoy the runs which involve a banking locomotive. PZB again makes it very engaging even when there isn't too much traffic.
Give a try to Ruhr-Sieg Nord then, it works better with trains with suspension than MSB, and the RSN 2006 modded timetable is brilliant and uses all the available rolling stock in the game.
Fair points all of them. Rather suggests that if there was a bit more "random factor" in-game, even the most Metro of Metro services could be more interesting. ididntdoit - Jeez, you've reminded me of one of the scariest moments I've had on a train. Total loss of grip due to leaf sludge at 95mph in a Class 312 on approach to Colchester. Driver must have been daydreaming, thought he was driving a 321 or forgot he was pathed into platform 1 and hit the brakes late on Spring Lane Viaduct and for a good 30 seconds the smell of brakes, a shuddering ride with the grinding sound coming from the wheels followed by the bump, bump of flat wheels once things were under control. I was sat with the LTS Rail Safety Manager at the time who explained what was happening, which probably made it worse.
Adding my two pennies worth of speculation for the British route. Two items for TSW5 do seem to have got rather delayed, namely GWE remaster and Class 158 timetable for Fife Circle, what do these two have in common? You could put a XC 220 in as AI at reading and Edinburgh to add to the business of the station, could it be a XC 220 will be included in TSW6 and this be the reason for the delay? Matt has said TSW6 will include something Great so I am guessing a section of the Great western mainline which will include running by GWE 800s and XC 220's What I would like to see is Exeter to Plymouth with the Paignton branch included. Castle class and 166 could layer in
Great Yarmouth? Though I have family there and its name should really be reported to Trading Standards.
Pretty sure XC run services up towards Aberdeen and Dundee via the Fife Circle, so it wouldn't just be AI at Edinburgh, it'd be playable
I don't understand the difference between "bus stop" services as you call them or longer non stop services. How are they less boring???? If feel there isn't much of a difference. Do we really want a other ECML? I like both kinds.
They are called bus stop routes because of the very short distance between each stop, so you never really get above 30mph. Nothing wrong with them per se, I just felt we’ve had enough of them during the TSW5 cycle.
I'd definitely welcome a route that provides variety, so that there's not just one type of service pattern because I like driving slow stoppers, suburban and intercity/fast services. London to Peterbourgh has four levels of service (Metro or "bus stop" to some), Semi-Fast out suburban, Intercity and freight with 5 traction types already in-game. Something like that would please many TSW fans. The alternatives that provide at least 2 different service patterns and being a southerner I apologise that they're all London-based and modern but; *London Bridge or Victoria to Faversham or Hastings. May need a 376 depending on what's part of the route is included. Little freight action though. *South West Mainline London to Southampton or Portsmouth - needs all new traction. *GWR modern - Needs a 345 and S Stock. *WAML London to Stansted and Cambridge. Needs 720/745/755, again, not much freight up this one. *GEML London to Ipswich or Clacton. Ditto plus 345 *LTS London to Shoeburyness including the surface section of the District. Needs 357/720/S Stock. There's likely to be some northern examples but I'll leave that to the northern experts.
We honestly don’t need another London route at the moment, like isn’t there other places in England that isn’t just the same as the rest, aka electric and very basic trains? They also just have three other parts of the uk they could do but it’s always England
As I said, I'm just mentioning South East routes because that's my area. I also only mentioned modern routes to keep the post shorter and I opened it up to suggestions from around the country, so go for it. Which ones do you want then? I should also point out it's not always England (wasn't the Cardiff Network their last release?) and it's certainly never East Anglia because we have no routes in TSW yet.
Was meaning the fact we have 4 routes and 2 locos (one more upcoming ) that aren’t from England, so it’s pretty fair saying they could slow down a bit. Aberdeen to Dundee (if modern must include Waterloo yards with the class 70, but if it was set earlier would love to class 25s/26s which I think were running the line on top of the usual stuff) Aberdeen to Inverness (it should have the sleeper train + coaches) west highland line (not sure which version would be best but I love the TSC version with the class 37/4) Caledonian railway (must include new steam, it’s a pretty small route but seems pretty nice, ((checking out on the weekend)) I don’t know to much about Ireland or Wales railways so can’t really suggest them. As you can probably tell from all my suggestions I’m Scottish so I may be a biased towards Scotland routes, I’m also kinda a train nerd and history fan so I kinda lean towards the 1980s and early
Driver was probably rolling a smoke or something. Them old trains definitely didn't like slippery rails.
Barely counts as a route, though... Outsourced, given to an intern who then forgot about it and had to throw together a small section of track in 10 days! (Well that's how how it seems to me).
Completely agree. The routes outsourcing led to it releasing in a very poor state with not many improvements... It could of also done with a little more length to it, as even the Cathcart Circle has more interesting drives on the circle alone compared to CCN. I will say the Class 153 is a nicely built unit though, and I find it a nice unit to drive on the Manchester Commuter route. (I only purchased CCN purely for the layering abilities to a few add ons. I give the route a drive on most services and found it very underwhelming and the quality wasn't much better). On another note, I think DTG have done a very good job this year in terms of keeping the said routes secret until the Dovetail Direct announcements in 11 days time... Let's hope the UK flagship route this year is far better then last years poor quality offering.
Yes, I eventually broke down and purchased Cardiff in the sale, not for the route itself but for the stock layering. I've driven a few services ( don't look away or they'll be over when you turn back to the screen ). The " route" ( not the trains which are OK for what they are ) is a real step ( leap? ) backwards. Heck we had better looking routes in MSTS, routes that really did Wales proud. Actually I think this might apply to the whole TSW5 cycle, which is mostly forgettable, except for WCMLoS and the HSP46 pack. Here's hoping that TSW6 will be a new beginning, though my expectations are decidedly on the low side.
Anything Anglia would probably need to be set at least 5 years back to interest me, but other than that I'd take any of those routes, apart from a modern GWE, because there's loads of better GWR routes that could be made, as well as better routes that could be made in London.
Anything can become boring if it's the only thing you do for extended periods of time, it doesn't matter if the content in question is good or not. I love a simple linear platformer, but when that's all your putting out like Nintendo was doing during the Wii U era suddenly even some hardcore fanatics for that sort of thing are gonna be bloody sick of them.
Yeah, it's a bit of an Aventra overload on the GEML these days. For the first time ever there's absolutely no variety my Clacton branch which takes the fun out of traveling to London. The 720s are pretty nice but I miss having a choice between the ultimate Mk3 EMU and the excellent Desiros.
I haven't heard the rumour of 745/1s being used on express services to Clacton in a while. I'm still sceptical if that was ever actually planned or just a rumour that people ran away with.
I remember during Covid watching videos of Stratford and I was fascinated by the variety. Slightly off-topic but the South Western lines near me are also soon to see the end of variety with the 701s coming in, though the transitional period has been quite interesting with 450s, 455s, 458s (both refurbished and unrefurbished), and the 701s all on metro services.
Enjoy while you have it. I wish I'd got out and recorded some videos of local places with the old trains trundling along even just in the background adding to the atmosphere of the place. I took them for granted, just as I took the old slamdoors for granted. Though admittedly some of our classic traction disappeared during lockdown, there was no way I could have envisaged my Dec 2019 trip behind a Class 90 followed by the Class 360 connecting train would have been the last time I'd have either for traction.
Yes it’s strange how perception changes. I remember during my cranking days in the early to mid eighties, the dismay and disappointment when a Highland Line express rolled in with a 47/4 on it, or getting restless doing Norwich to Peterborough with a 31 gurgling away on the front of the train. But, hey, I’d readily trade the modern rubbish we have now to get those back. I’d even take a MTU HST over a Hitachi GWR Cucumber or a nice Class 310 out of Euston instead of a 350!
I'll never forget one of my last trips on a non-Renatus Class 321. For whatever reason, we had a rather spirited driver, and arrived into Shenfield a good two or three minutes ahead of schedule, the thing was bouncing around and lurching about all over the place the whole journey, and we can't have hit a single yellow from Stratford. Windows all open on the coach, and the doors shaking and rattling the whole way. In practical terms, it was a truly awful passenger experience, that journey, but I had a grin on my face the entire time
Still, I hope to see the Philadelphia-Washington section (well, at least Baltimore-Washington) with the new Avelia Liberty P. S. It would also be nice to have a route from Alaska, from Anchorage, if you know what I mean)))
Not a prediction, but I hope that the US route is Miami - West Palm Beach (BL36PH as the loco) and P42DC as a separate DLC loco.
