What Exactly Is Wrong With The Current Steam Physics?

If its going to be then I want the guy from the editor to be the one who did or anyone that has the skills to done properly

 

Big Boy for the win

 

In all seriousness though I don't really buy the "steam doesn't sell" excuse. I can't remember the source but I'm pretty sure Spirit of Steam was bundled in the TSW3 deluxe edition because it was one of the most popular routes.

 

Yep and I’ve even bought it up before but people always try to say otherwise

 

This is a "friendliness to newcomers" issue. That's difference from a fun issue.

Are you being sarcastic?

 

For all we know, "steam" could mean more TTTE stuff.......

 

I was not aware of this mod until yesterday. While it is not perfect, it goes a LONG WAY into improving the Steam experience. I tried both the 4F Fowler and the Flying Scotsman. I did the rail tour on the WCMLOS and had a grand time tending the water and fire, the injectors are pretty basic (on or off) and you don’t have to mess with opening the water feed and steam or exhaust to get the injectors to lift to inject into the boiler, but any interaction is better than none. Water usage is very contingent on cut off position and the firebox is over sensitive to the dampers to get new coal to ignite, but all that aside the steamers no longer act like a geared diesel.

I ran through @ 3000 lbs of coal on the run. After doing this run, it seems like the basic functions have been coded, it needs a lot of fine tuning, but seems it could be doable.

 

Honestly at this point I think I would just quit completely

 

Considering how not very fine-tuned the non-fuel aspects of TSW steam locos are, it's baffling to me that they haven't fully enabled manual firing when all the actual basic mechanics are implemented.

 

In case you have missed it, lcyrrjp made an excellent thread on this subject, and how best to replicate the real performance of TSW steamers (given the limitations of simugraph in these cases).
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/steam-a-realistic-challenge.72641/

Whilst still far from perfect, perhaps coupled with the water mod, this may be the closest we are likely to get to 'real world' performance.
Please have a go at the various runs given, and see how you do compared to other posters and real world workings alike

 

If you're a newcomer, it is a fun issue. And these were the first (and only) steam locomotives in TSW, so there were a lot of newcomers.

 

I know this is a little out of pocket, but this is starting to reminding me of Halo Infinite's canned split-screen multiplayer. A bit lacking in polish in certain places sure, but all the basics are in place and works way better than you'd expect for a completely canned feature. Like seriously, might sound absurd, but for anyone who isn't familiar with this Digital Foundry did a excellent (albeit a bit long) video covering it.

Even goes over all the technical performance, surprisingly I believe it was even running fine on the Xbox One if I remember right.

I'm not even a Halo guy, but it's utterly maddening seeing just how close to completion it was. And I'm getting same vibes again reading some of the comments about the underlying steam simulation here. It really doesn't sound like it's anywhere near as bad or incomplete as many had assumed for the past year or two.

 

The point is that it's an issue of how poorly pretty much everything in TSW is taught, rather than an issue inherent to the locomotives.

 

No matter how well you are taught, learning two complex things at the same time will always be more stressful and frustrating than learning one after the other.

And maybe you don't actually WANT to HAVE to learn a second thing just to be able to do the thing that you actually want to do.

 

Yes I do. As I said before to me the challenge is stopping with in 1m of the stop board on the platform 100% of the time.

Alot more interesting than long routes that you spend most of the time cruising at top speed.

Also you don't have to get up to top speed its called a speed limit not a speed requirement.

I have no interest in steam trains, nor did I with TSC. Yes I love to go and see them in real life and have been on the footplate before many times at a heritage railway, but in no way does TSW or TSC come close to simulating the experience to me.

It does come close to driving an LRT though.

 

That's not really hard to pull off either on light weight trains with good braking, especially if you ain't religiously following the timetable. Frankly no precision stop is hard to pull if you're willing to slow to a crawl before stopping, lord knows I've had to do that too many bloody times for US freight due to DTG's stupid marker placements.

 

I suggest that Japanese train simulators may be more to your interest.

 

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Hmmmmsim is great.

 

Yesterday, the game told me I stopped 0.004 yards away from the objective marker… There’s no pleasing the algorithm…

 

“I don’t think” is not the same as “I know”.

 

Pretty sure you’re joking! I have about 0.01% expectation that we will get a new steam loco in TSW6.

 

For a second he had me going!

 

That is pretty much the reason I have stopped buying anything for TSW. The last thing was TSW5, I haven't purchased any of the DLC and will very unlikely buy anything TSW6 related unless there is a real surprise in store.

I realise I am in the minority but I have spent quite a lot on TSC add-ons by third parties which would have gone on TSW content if I thought the sim was a more rounded experience rather than being much one-sided.

 

I am here, and am dispersing it I'm afraid. I think I've probably burnt my bridges with DTG by criticising their handling of steam so much, and what I'm about to type won't help any
I barely visit here anymore - I only logged in today because when I started Steam it had an advert for TSW 6 so I thought I'd come and see what half baked, lazy slop it was including this time.
There's no point - SoS is never going to be what they promised when they took our money, they don't care - they're just a business and all that matters is getting your cash. Misdirecting, overpromising, pretending they care and that they're your friends, all part of the game for them as long as people keep paying.

Everyone should read this thread no matter your platform.
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/epic-games-losing-most-dlc-o.93273/

Epic appear to have got so sick of DTG's nonsense with their re-release of the SAME GAME requiring 100+ DLC to be duplicated over and over and over that they've said "No more!" and anyone with a load of DLC on Epic is going to get screwed out of what they bought.

The flywheel will keep turning - better keep up. Or maybe it's time to get off?

 

Thanks for that, my hopes of running a Pannier tank on the Dartmouth or Buckfastleigh Line evaporated on watching the Direct stream last night.

And yes I had glossed over the Epic situation but very sobering on reading the full details. DTG should be making their own provision to ensure people have access to the content they paid for on the newest platform. As I just said in that thread, Epic today Steam and PSN tomorrow.

 

Not going to lie I started to think you were just rumour to keep us hopeful of new steam lol,

but yeah they seriously need to fix their LOVE*, one of these days someone is going to lose it

 

A useful reminder of broken promises: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/search/95424736/?q=firing&o=date&c[node]=190&c[user][0]=257

 

PF didn’t sell enough I think that’s the real reason. It sells well on TSC because more vintage enthusiasts want to play that game whereas here the console players just seem to want modern stuff and to get places as fast as possible.

 

I think you may be right about that.
As time goes on though, TSC starts to look like the dated potato graphics it actually is, and more of that gen players may port over to TSW.
The Thomas sold like hotcakes and not *just* because it was Thomas.

I may be just trying to flog a dead horse , but I still think there is a lot of milage to steam.

Im hoping the AI vintage steam route in the new Riviera will generate more interest and see it become expanded and playable.

 

Or maybe it was because of the lack of new rolling stock and updates to stuff reused.

as a console player I feel issu

 

Peak Forest didn't sell because trying to drive unfinished steam locos on an unrealistically empty timetable isn't fun.

 

Not to mention the weird end points.

 

I think Dovetail have treated steam locos so poorly and all because there's problems they can't be bothered to fix. Unfortunately dovetail only listen to the community on things that suite them. I remember the hype when sos dropped was huge so hopefully we see a return of steam because it's such a shame.

 

I think it's half to do with just how bad Steam is in TSW, the damage done to Steam's image within the game by SoS and PFR, and half to do with the fact that a lot of people want routes/trains that they've been on, are familiar with or have some form of connection.

While the Spirit of Steam route (Liverpool - Crewe) still exists, it's nothing alike the modern version and in the case of PFR, that line closed in 1968, so nobody who isn't in their 60's or above will have any familiarity with it - in other words, probably a very small percentage of the community.

No doubt, if Dovetail made a half decent Steam route, with a good timetable(!) and better physics it would sell better but I'm not all that convinced that it would - unless it's a quite special route - be quite as big as people expect.

There's also a sense of frustration visible on these forums on the part of German and US players that they haven't got any steam content, too.

 

I can only imagine that world that Dovetail can't be bothered to give us

 

DTG treats steam like my family treats me, abandoned /j

 

Really surprised that they still haven’t re visited steam after all this time. Surely there’s a third party team out there somewhere that can put abit of patience into perfecting a loco, even without a home route if soneone just done a rail tour pack and spent all the time on the loco instead of the route

 

I am only using a sample of one (myself) but do people really only want to drive trains they are familiar with? I was born a decade after the end of steam yet second to BR blue, the 1950's is an era of railways I love and want to see reproduced. Sure I would love to see the Snow Hill lines as they are local to or even better the New Street to Worcester line set in 1990 but one of the exciting things about a train simulator is you get to drive trains from all over the world and from different eras, which is/was one of TSW's strong points.

PFR whilst looking lovely suffered in the same way as SOS as it feels unfinished with a empty timetable a steam engines with questionable physics. I only bought PFR after it was announced a diesel pack was coming, that seems to have gone quiet.

For me some decent steam represenation would complete the circle for immersive and varied UK railway experience, I would also like to see some foreign steam.

The only hope seems to be the Talyllyn railway and the Pannier tank being developed by individuals on the creation section of the forum. I hope they are eventually released and are successful and if so, I feel that DTG will very much have egg on its face.

How they still have the temerity to market SOS as having "busy" passenger and freight services is frankly baffling.

 

Sorry to read this, I was hoping you might have been beavering away in the background on TSW incognito!

I do love the steam on TSC but would much rather have even just a quarter of it in TSW.

I have always been supportive of DTG as I do feel they have some very passionate people but the hype over SOS and the subsequent bursting of the baloon and the abandoment of steam has left a bitter taste in my mouth and I now take what they say with a pinch of salt.

 

In the creators section there is the Talyllyn route being developed and also a Pannier tank (and maybe a route) so there is some hope. Hopefully DTG will support them as third parties even if they don't want to touch steam again theirselves.

 

Yes I agree, although I would far prefer it on a period version of the route with a King, Castle, County, Grange, Prairie, 28xx, 43xx and a Pannier (oh and no mark 1's). However I can only dream, or play it in TSC.

 

I think I will give up on hoping for new steam altogether if nothing shows up on the next Christmas reveals series. It’s a real shame and I am disappointed in DTG to be honest, fed up of feeling completely ignored on it even though we’re told they listen to what we want on here.

 

New solution go to their office and stage a protest outside lol /j

 

The rate they seem to be getting new players eventually the opinions may change and perhaps it will become a higher priority in the future.

But I think we are still a couple of years away from that. Maybe UE5 can simulate the physics more to what they need when they either switch or bring us a new game.

But I don't see that happening anytime soon. Unless UE develops a way to copy content from one to the other more seamlessly.

 

What do we want?
STEAM!!
When do we want it?
WHEN WE HAVE THE APPROPRIATE BOILER PRESSURE!

 

I am very frustrated that steam stock has not been expanded in TSW, but I not specifically mad with DTG, since I happen to believe that there are real steam enthusiasts within the DTG ranks and I do not accept that it is incompetence or laziness. However, I would very much like to hear from DTG a detailed explanation of the issues which make the physics so difficult - if the explanation goes over many heads, so be it, but a developer-level breakdown would maybe damp down the ill-informed or insulting comments we so often see.

 

I don't for a moment think it is incompetence or laziness and would never use that language. It is obviously a decision from the higher ups.

 

I would be happy to continue steam releases even based on the current physics. They may not be accurate but are still relaxing and fun to drive and look good. At the end of the day it’s all about enjoyment and not necessarily counting rivets all the time.

 

A dev for DTG on discord back in 2023 explained what was wrong with the physics and that it all comes down to a shortcoming in Simulgraph.

And that DTG had spent over 2 and half years trying to adjust the physics before SOS so basically had run over budget on the dedicated team working on it that no steam route would be profitable.

So basically they worked on it and ran into a brick wall at some point and its not worth it to them any more as they already went way over budget.

Also they probably got scared off when the community all got up in arms after Peak Forest when alot of the community said they will not purchase any steam in its current form.

 

Ah so that's why you're so angry