As previously stated by DTG team on a livestream, the main cost is the need to fill the submission forms for every single addon on every platform.
This is really a tinfoil hat teory. DTG has no reason to do so, because it hurts their bottom end too. It discourages people buy their new version, as having a barebones TSW without all the inventory has much less value for the player. It cuts the revenue stream from older DLCs which are still selling. Brighton Main Line is still on of the top recommendation for new players. It forces them to keep the older version alive longer, trying to provide (atleast) minimal support. This really looks to be some odity with the Epic store, and I would compare it more to the DLC limit previously experienced on the playstation platform. And everybody who had anything to do with inter-corporate negotiantions knows why they cannot say anything more. Any public disclosure of the reason/what's going on can and will hurt your negotiating position. As for the space requirements for the storefront, that's literally penies. Storage is insanely cheap. The bandwith requiremnt for delivering the content on the other hand...
Their own bloody choice. They don't need to make a new game every year. But apparently it still gets them more money as they can advertise it as a "new game". So I don't feel sorry for DTG having extra costs for these submission forms. I'd gladly see them switch to a TSC-model with yearly updates rather than new games.
48 hours ago we’d have said the same thing if it was suggested that one platform wouldn’t get all the DLC ported over wouldn’t we. That’s the thing about conspiracy theories , they are all tin foil hat wearers, that is until they are proven true.
There are two aspects of this I wanted to touch on. One, it's a terrible, terrible thing to do to your playerbase. The unwritten contract we have with you guys is that all the content or storefronts will be there for people to enjoy in the next game. It is of course not said anywhere explicitly, but is the way of things in general. I get it that with the licensing agreement it is legal, but it is just so, so consumer unfriendly. Parity among platforms is one of the things I expect. I get that you are not able to launch everything day 1, and even cannot provide when it will be available. But COMMITING to doing so, instead of saying "if at all", would go a long way in not blowing all the trust your customers have with you away. As it is now, I would just discourage anyone from byuing anything from you on Epic, because clearly there are downsides to that storefront. If Epic is your store of choice that is really disheartening. Two, this is a terrible precedent. A question that everyone should have in mind right now is "if Epic now, then who's next? Is my content at risk?"
Actually it is said. In the TSW6 announce video it's said "you can bring across all of your compatible content". No caveats or anything. The content is clearly compatible, but not all of it has been 'curated' in. There's something seriously amiss when the same game on the same PC can either run everything or it can't, depending solely on which storefront one uses. A particular DLC crashing on one storefront but not the other was weird enough (and not properly explained), but this situation is just plain wrong.
If this is due to an Epic-limitation, then my question is this: DID DTG NOT READ THE PLATFORM TERMS & CONDITIONS? I would not be surprised, the same thing happened to Xbox, where there was a maximum DLC download limit DTG wasn't even aware of initially (and if this is the case, then your company is run by amateurs). If my work attitude was like this, then I would receive my P45 the next day. Epic pre-order cancelled until this is sorted 'if at all'.
Maybe. But the big difference there is, for TSW there aren't just hundreds of addons listed but multiple versions of the very same addons listed for each single iteration of the game. Imagine how messy and confusing the store list would look like in 5, 10 years. ect.
Agreed, a point I've made multiple times for a while now. There are now 5 versions of TSW2 routes, 4 versions of TSW3 routes, 3 versions of TSW4 routes, etc. The problem gets worse every year as more DLC comes out, but regardless the yearly copying and pasting of every single DLC continues, clogging up storefronts. In the absence of any other explanation, it seems at least one storefront has reached its limit of how many 'train sim world' titles it's prepared to have listed. How long until the others have similar issues? Sure, "I'm alright, Jack" now over on Steam, but for how long?
I was wondering when this would happen. Since every year a steady growing list of DLCs is littering up the stores. "Littering up" because they are somehow redundant. 5 entries for the same DLC * x. Well ... I am still waiting for my beloved BR 420. But I am having it much more easy now to leave TSW behind. And let's face it, unlike some behaviors from loyal customers, this is the one DTG are actually appreciating.
To add to this, I've also just noticed that the Dovetail Direct recap adds no caveats about compatible content: That's "your collection", not "your collection unless you've bought it on Epic Games, in which case only some of it". You have to go looking through the FAQs to find the one section that reveals this. I have to say, the way this was 'non-announced' does remind me of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: “But the plans were on display…” “On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.” “That’s the display department.” “With a flashlight.” “Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.” “So had the stairs.” “But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?” “Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard'.”
eMAyTeeTee Thanks for the info,much appreciated.I thought steam,apart from MS,was the only other to offer the game.
We have already lost the original NEC and the four Caltrain dlc. Its not just store issues we need to be concerned about its also their licence issues and any reason they now feel like. I said after the Caltrain content removal that it is setting an unhealthy precedent and I was right. With TSC, they update the original game without creating a new entity every time so with there was never a need to re-download content or hope DLC will carry over.
Original NEC was the victim of large scale changes to the game engine, and Caltrain was probably due to electrification. Let's don't forget that TSW have lost the GWR license for quite a while yet we still get news for GWE.
Epic today, Steam or PSN tomorrow? There must come a point at which the other platforms call "enough is enough" and call time on the annual rigmarole of re-releasing the game with a new number and a few cosmetic core updates. DTG should at a minimum allow people to copy over their pak files from the previous version and have these populate in the latest edition. It would be nice if this was awake up call to DTG and for the next several years we just get a game update without the marketing jiggery pokery that accompanies the "new" game.
Some transparency and further explanation is really required here. If this is a decision on Epic Game's part, surely they must realize this will turn TSW players on Epic Games into second class citizens versus TSW players on Steam, completely disincentivising players from from any further TSW purchases on Epic Games. In which case you would think DTG, knowing there would be a backlash at cutting away a huge chunk of players collections, would be quick to say it's an Epic Games limitation and there is nothing we can do. In which case we could take our complaints to Epic Games themselves. Or is this a DTG decision? Is Epic Games charging to have so many DLCs listed or to do the work of transferring entitlements to the new game (a process that was screwed up on Epic Games for both TSW3 and 4 that took a month to sort both times) and DTG is cutting costs by cutting down players collections? Or is DTG simply cutting costs by not doing the work of making the content compatible with the new version for Epic Games? And how would this affect layering going forward? The freight services on MBTA Commuter required multiple DLCs to enable, several of which will be removed for Epic Games players going forward. Will the upcoming New York - Stamford route or others have similar requirements for freight layers? Will future additional layer options need to come with a disclaimer "Epic Games customers need not apply."? DW
"Therefore it's false advertising and grounds for a lawsuit." (edit- it isn't; DTG decides what's compatible). I am not saying anything, I love TSW but I am extremely pissed. Favorites like the Class 380, BCC + 170 and the DB BR 194. I bought them less than some months ago; it's completely unfair. I am formally requesting that Steam keys be given to Epic players upon proof of purchase.
so i have cn Oakville sub on tsw5 and if i bought tsw6 it won't port over. the pc editor reason why i keep buying the same game on epic. i know pc editor works for steam as well.
Not to mention that this could mean that some future DLCs also won't be available, like the DB BR 101 Expert Gameplay Pack... Trust towards DTG is 0/10 at the moment.
Unbelievable! How wasn't this mentioned before by DTG? I feel like this is a big issue trying to be silently swept under the carpet.
It seems DTG is only making the "most popular DLC" work in TSW6 on Epic. Which kinda makes sense if it's a Epic limitation. But it does mean that whenever you like less popular content (basically anything that isn't a modern plastic one-handle EMU) you're in a worse position.
Frankly, if the situation can't be resolved then 2 things should happen: take all of TSW off Epic Games, and transfer all users to Steam with full entitlements for what they've already purchased. Nobody gains anything they didn't already own, nobody loses out either.
Regretfully or not, I think players deserve an explanation as to why this is happening on the Epic platform please? I think an explanation why is the least Epic customers are owed.
Am I thinking wrong (haven't had coffee yet, so very possible) that if there were only a single release of TSW, then the DLCs that are not being brought forward would simply have to be deleted entirely to make room for new ones; and therefore the yearly release, which allows you to keep a previous version installed along with its DLCs, is the only reason those DLCs are able to be kept and played at all?
as someone who plays on steam, I sympathize with my fellow epic games store players. It's completely absurd and deserves a transparent explanation from dtg as to why this is happening
Once again a whole player base is completely shafted by the need to redownload content? I'm on Xbox but I'm livid for the epic games players. And the way it's been swept under the rug, no one directly mentioned it. Were DTG just going to wait until epic players downloaded their version only to find none of the dlc was there? I love the idea of people getting steam keys for their content after showing proof of purchase. But then the way the world works are the higher up corporate people really above charging people for dlc a 2nd time?
I am not very happy with DTG, or Epic, either way at all on this. I had no problems in the past, but now this is seriously a betrayal as a loyal customer for 4 years. We shouldn't have to regret buying on a platform which is treated unequally than the rest, why is that even the case? We need answers now, either from Epic Games or DTG, because this is quite unacceptable. I feel like my money is wasted. And yes, I can keep those routes on TSW 5, but what if they receive updates in TSW 6? And what about missing layers on routes like ECML, if I play it on TSW 6, I won't even see the class 700 there, same for SEHS TSW 6 version. I'm not very pleased. The community, especially Epic Games users, need to make DTG and Epic fully aware of what they've done to their customers, which is seriously a slap in the face. They need to do something about it, or else they're going to lose me as a loyal customer.
And obviously, it's unfeasible to rebuy 120+ DLC, which costs thousands, and start over a Dovetail Live profile that's over 1K+, which doesn't even save on the cloud either. I'd have to restart all of my progress, which would be very upsetting.
To be honest I'm not even mad at Epic, even if its up to them. This anual rerelease of the same DLC-catalogue is an enormous amount of redundant shop-entries. Me as an Epic User, who probably got now the ultimate reason to jump train, am even sort of glad ... but also sorry for those who had hoped to continue the way it was.
Same here, It's the only reason I even bother to keep TSW installed nowadays. I've played TSW5 for a whopping 38.1 hours!
What will happen next year with TSW7 when there are even more DLC's to port across? If DLC like the class 86/2 aren't getting ported across then that loco would not be available on the new WCML TSW6 route which would not be a happy state of affairs. I don't for a moment think DTG are doing it to test the waters for other platforms, it would pretty foolish if they were. I used to worry about steam when Railworks was first launched on it but my worries were unfounded.
My first big mistake was to get TSW2 (free back in 2021) on Epic. Now with 80 DLCs and some not carrying to TSW6 that's a big yikes. But I smelled that (started with the 101 Expert Gameplay Pack) something like that will happen again. + There is no way to migrate to Steam. It's sad because they use Epic's UE4. x, so there's no excuse for the DLCs to not work/carry. And i personally believe that all that is happening because of poor communication & management between both companies (Epic & [mostly] DTG). I saw some comments about Transparency, so here's what EU laws have been violated in my perspective view of the whole thing (Both companies): - Digital Content Directive (2019/770) Articles 5, 6, 7, 8: Lack of transparency, non-conformity, and missing updates. - Unfair Commercial Practices Directive (2005/29/EC) Article 7: Misleading omission of important info. - Consumer Rights Directive (2011/83/EU) Article 5: Failure to disclose functional limitations. But only time will tell if they come up with a solution. Until then, i will get the Free Starter Pack & pray Microsoft to fix that awful KB5063878 update that bricks SSD & NVMe drives.
Wow, if this is all true, this is not a good look for either parties involved in this. I really want an explanation for all this, and ideally, a solution to get the rest of the DLC's we own onto the new game.
DTG haven't really broken any of those laws. The information is there, and publicly accessible, just not as visible as it should have been. This is not even close to the kinds of lawbreaking that have lead to the recent lawsuits against Roblox and Mojang. A lawsuit of any kind is just silly. Plus, even if they did break those laws, there would be no grounds for any legal action because you have not lost any content.
That was the Playstation version where Sony introduced that 64GB limitation (it's a console and japanese market-centric design choice) and DTG had to develop the content manager to get around it, which they then ported to the PC and XBox versions for reasons of 1: maintaining ease of keeping it easy to develop for all platforms, and 2: because it brought some memory handling optimisations which benefited all platforms. I would expect not to see such a problem emerge on XBox which has never had any kind of DLC limit and where more of the XBox and PC-exclusive titles design their DLC on the same principles as PC DLC as discrete install packages rather than small "unlockers" for content subsumed into the primary game install package, since MS are very focused on integrating their PC and console stores as a single platform. Such limitations would no doubt cause problems for PC-only titles on the same storefront. (This is also likely part of the reason why CDPR were able to put Phantom Liberty on an additional disc in the XBox version of CP77 Ultimate, while the PS version has it as a DLC code) On the Epic side this just comes across as the latest in a litany of screwups in their efforts at building a rival PC store platform. Which continues to baffle me, since it should get easier over time to enter the market more caught up to your long term embedded competition, by just...copying them well enough, surely? Anyway, I stand fully by the obvious ethical stance that DTG should provide Steam keys free of charge for the TSW6 versions of every piece of TSW DLC in every Epic Store player's library.
There is a little article on the Epic Games website's news section about TSW6 : https://store.epicgames.com/en-US/news/listen-out-for-the-unexpected-in-train-sim-world-6 DW
Just an update: I contacted Epic Games about it, but they told me that they're also waiting for new information on this, and that I should contact DTG if I have further issues on what's going on right now. Seems to me that Epic themselves do not know, or at least the support department doesn't. So it could be DTG, Epic, who knows. We just need a proper explanation for all of this and some kind of solution.
Compared to what DTG told me, which was that we can't migrate to Steam (we knew about this already) and that my concerns are being heard and considered. However, we still don't know what the exact issue that caused this was, but I guess it's nice that at least they're hearing me out and know that this is a huge problem, similarly to fellow Epic Games players like myself. But since Epic doesn't know either based on the response I received from them, we just need someone to say what the exact reason is. Let's hope for the best.
I don't think it's been confirmed anywhere whether or not the problem is that there is a limit to how many DLCs a game can have on the Epic Games Store. Does seem likely though if DLC No. 129 was the first to have problems... IF that is indeed the case though, then you're completely correct: the issue is DLC per game, not total DLC across all games. So the yearly releases aren't the problem. In fact, without the regular re-releases, they'd either have to fully delete old DLC, or stop publishing new DLC. With the re-releases, old DLC at least stays available in the previous version(s) of the game.
If 128 is the maximum number of dlcs a game can have on epic then that is suspiciously what can be stored in a signed 8 bit number (0-127). Very 1980s sort of problem to have.
There must be a reason why they are marketing a "new" game every year for sure, on the other Hand ETS2 is running since 13 years and haven't released any new iteration since then, just regular updates and DLC. And they are successful with this.
Firstly, I did not talk about lawsuits nor need to be one and obviously I didn't talk only about DTG, there's also EPICs side of that matter. That was my PERSONAL view in that area. Yes Athough it's Public information, you said it yourself: just not as visible as it should have been. Simply, they just need to put it somewhere visible and not scour the Forums for the answers. Here's an article on the Epic Games website's news section about TSW6: https://store.epicgames.com/en-US/news/listen-out-for-the-unexpected-in-train-sim-world-6 "Of course, Train Sim World 6 doesn't stop there, with more future add-ons to come in this release, featuring routes in new countries in Portugal, Czechia, and Japan, authentically recreated by teams local to the region. More importantly, established players will also be able to bring their existing collection of routes and trains over, which is also perhaps why Dovetail is in no hurry to make the leap from their heavily customized version of Unreal Engine 4." BUT, the whole thing is in the gray zone. When you advertise "all your previous content will be available in the new iteration and then you see that most of your DLCs are not gonna be installable/available, you feel deceived (in a way). Also contacted Epic, and somewhat got the same answer as nekochanryan. It Seems to me that Epic themselves do not know nor have newer information about this problem & are directing me to contact DTG Support for further assistance.
