Okay so it’s that time of year for history to repeat its self for a sixth time so been doing a little thinking about this release. A little excited for the new locos yet I can’t help thinking about the lack of quality in some areas of TSW products that have existed in the past and still do in TSW5. Now my question to the community is this. Has the love or faith in DTG been dwindling year in year out?. Has trust in DTG product reached an all time low?. I asked myself and now you the community this as I feel with TSW6 being a format seen in previous TSW releases not much changed in TSW5 from 4 even 3 and 2. Issues still persist to this day regarding product quality. Will TSW6 just be the same. A quick hype until all the same issues of bugs etc pop up left until the next title. I can’t help but feel that this is causing massive anxiety in consumer faith. It has me since buying 3 add on backs all with faults that has rendered one un fit for use in LD. Since the trend of yearly release has now begun to be the common theme, so is that trust or lack off confidence in DTG products. Add the situation of new game release within the train simulator market and it’s clear to see the future could look bleak. Why all because consumers trust and faith in DTG has also become a common ground for many previous fans or customers of TSW that after so long have given up and left the franchise. The love has gone and so when TSW6 is released all the hype is missing the fun even excitement for a new release all because for the last few years customers have been there done that and now had enough. They see thought the hype and fear that anything they buy could be bugged or just create more problems than allowing customers to relax after buying TSW title products. From my perspective and experience with the topic of consumer faith even help in after sales is a negative one. Was going to complain but what’s the point when it feels DTG has no control over what over 3rd party developers do. All my products with issues are from 3rd party developers. Issues that have been left for years yet no fix in a new game title. If DTG have left all this unchecked then look like all the small problems over the years have mounted up. So has the drop in consumer faith and trust in DTG. I seen this before I feel DTG has, because I or some would not be speaking like this if DTG did see the potential risk of losing customers. Focused more on pumping out new products while leaving a trail of issues that if left over time will come back to bit them. And why for me with the news of TSW6 I’m not focusing on the routes etc. I’m more interested in how to feel comfortable in buying a product that is not a new game as such. Just an updated version with new DLCs that could be sold without the added hype of new title. Does anyone feel the same as I do and if so what can be done?. And does it feel like DTG is taking this seriously by looking at how some fans feel?. Because yes no one really likes to talk openly about such matters yet I feel it’s important if we are to find a solution or way forward. Ie all this transparency I hear yet don’t see much of personally myself. Be leaving feedback or reporting issues in the correct manner yet years later still the same. How would anyone have faith or trust if a customer or community feels ignored when nothing happens. And why would anyone that has been ignored feel mentally comfortable in taking a risk of buying a product only to feel frustrated that we did it again fully knowing what the risk were. I love TSW but I don’t love being left with worry about buying something in good faith just to feel as I do now. TSW6 is great news but if it’s following in the footsteps of TSW5 and 4 etc etc then what’s there to be excited about if it means another year of poor quality and lack of consumer confidence going forward. Yes I’ll buy TSW6 because there are making massive jumps in quality of graphics. That’s not the problem and commend the teams at DTG for making huge strides towards improving graphic quality and performance. It’s all the little ones issues have been left and now it’s catching up with them to grow into what it has when it comes to trust in micro transactions for add on packs or DLCs and custom faith full stop. (3rd Party) Are products from 3rd parties giving DTG a bad name?. What ever the case maybe some have had enough. Will TSW6 confront these issues head on once and for all. I feel DTG needs to change that opinion within their consumer base if trust is to be re established. Because something else to think of is this. No market can survive without a strong fan base. Pushing titles out to help reach new audiences can’t be solid business strategy because that new audience may have their eyes on newer or better games in or away from train simulator games. Ie GTA6 is on millions of wish list yet look at DTGs audience for a new game. Practically non existent so will be missed by the audience DTG are hoping will boost revenue from all the loyal fans that have left the franchise. Not a good way to create revenue without any solid market share or customer base to give any kind of reliable forecast. Means a company is less likely to try make big changes or a bust or break moment for fear of losing money of spending so much to help boost its business revenue. You can’t expect new customers in this industry as it is today. Money is tight and so much more out there. A little test of getting my kids involved with TSW yet my kids don’t because all their friends are online. Playing and engaging with others. Games are not just games but also an integral socially to how kids choose a game. TSW doesn’t have this appeal in a wider social context. It’s a market strategy that will only work for today’s younger generations. With the social setting placed in younger society games will get missed even ignored by new audiences of a younger generation. The only way to remain relevant or stay competitive is to keep and build on existing audiences and customers with the means or resources available to a company. To keep its loyal customer base not lose them. A bucket that fills with water the longer that firm stays solid and trust worthy. (Gets used and also relevant) But a bucket with a hole will endless lose water, left unplugged and that flow of water stops, then that bucket will run dry. (Useless, no need. Can’t be trusted) Please share you thought on this matter in a constructive manner more than one of attack. To respond with your past experiences and if TSW6 will do anything towards changing the over consensus about building back trust and the faith to continue or even rejoin TSW franchise after the same old script. To many that is the same old recycled loco DLCs over priced and poor customer satisfaction. Will TSW6 re write the script for the love that some lost help to return. Rigsby. ✌
Well I enjoy playing TSW and you just have to spend a bit of time in the other sims to see why I keep coming back to it. I’ve been firing up Zusi 3 the last couple of evenings. It has an awful menu system, like a spreadsheet. You need to use an external website (currently off line) to filter out a route and train you might like to drive. Once that’s done an interminable time for the route to load followed by another wait while the time skip takes you forward to your train start time. Then, once you start driving, TSW may only have one save slot but Zusi has none! Same with SimRail and Run 8, always end up back on TSW. MSTS/OR deleted off my PC over a year ago and TSC I haven’t bothered to reinstall after my last content purge. However despite my enthusiasm for the South Devon route, somewhat tempered by the fact it seems Rivet are involved, I just felt very cynical watching most of Direct and that bit with “Take A Ticket” just made me cringe, it was so phoney. This is exactly what I mean, with no offence to the staff involved, when I say that DTG is top heavy with management and marketing people yet so devoid of technical and production staff, we can’t get more than one save slot and they are outsourcing much of their route building. Then the counter to that is I have gone ahead and pre-purchased the Deluxe Edition as there’s just enough content there to pique my interest.
The direct had a record number of viewers. The discord is growing quickly. I spend a lot of time here and on Reddit and I feel like the majority of people are being positive. It definitely feels like there's more love than last year. I ended up with just the starter pack last year and waited a long time to buy based on everything I was seeing and hearing regarding performance, the WCML timetable, lighting, scenery, the conductor mode not working properly... This year, all 3 core routes look great, the new features are all great and the roadmap ahead is really exciting. I'll still wait until after the first route live stream just to see how everything is working, but looking very likely I'll pre-order. The Epic situation is the only real blight at the moment, and DTG aren't entirely blameless in that, but I think most (totally warranted) fury should be going to Epic. It's their call to enforce this and I suspect they'll pay for it as their usual customers jump to Steam and start again.
Wasn't excited until the Direct, but they've added 2 things I really want (Riviera and the Voyager) 1 thing I quite like German Route extension) and the German Shunter. So I will get the deluxe edition, but it's no longer a given that I purchased DLC. I've already got more than enough. I was interested for the Dutch route and having tried it, I just don't have any real connection to the Netherlands and now I find it boring however good it is, so I'm really not excited for any of the new countries on the Roadmap. My problem is I've been collecting for TSC for 14 years, have a huge variety of stock and scenarios to play and can drive long distances if I want to. TSW is prettier, but it just doesn't have the same level of engagement for me. So when I had some time free last weekend, it was TSC I went back to. The Riviera line could be a turning point for me. It's where I come from and if the timetable is good and the coastal waters are realistic, then I'm going to love it. In general TSW is still enjoyable and worth the money for me, but I don't think it's living up to my expectations when after 6 iterations, I still find myself going back to TC.
Hey I’m glad you’re still enjoying TSW as I fully enjoy the game also and why I personally don’t want to see this franchise face any hurdles that may prevent the success in DTG aims and fans loyal to TSW. This is why I’m not attacking the game for what we have today with TSW5. An example of how beautiful this game is. A long way since TSW2. I’m gald you have shared your thoughts and experiences on other titles some I haven’t played with being a non PC user. The games I would play I don’t bother with because I’m on TSW5 so much. Be LD where I spend most of my time with a hunger for driving more but that will have to wait for now. Love the game but I fear for quality from certain 3rd party developers is getting in the way of that. Rivet you mentioned is a name that has some effect on how you’re looking at that particular product. This is my point tho in that shouldn’t be the case and I just hope DTG will be looking at stemming that problem. An interesting point you have raised too is top level management over lower level staff. If this is the case why. Reminds me of an old job that was laying of staff yet was still getting new fancy Audi’s while the staff struggled. With things like this I can’t never say for certain on the reasons. And can I just ask what is the ticket thing? I’ve not followed anything with being so busy. Yet from what I have seen in the past on video presentations it does seem very unnatural at times even uncomfortable to watch. For TSW6 I might hold off on all because this time there is no extra decals on release I’ll still get it tho because I see the new releases as not a new game but just a way to bulk up DLCs at a cheap price than if bought separately. ✌
Thanks for this information as I haven’t had time to follow anything. Would I be wrong in assuming Direct is a way for DTG to be more transparent about what happening?. It’s great to hear that love is stronger for TSW6 so DTG must be pleasing loyal fans, new or even old audiences a like. Sounds like they learnt something from the issue you raise when TSW5 was released. This for me gives me some confidence that quality is a key target for the teams at DTG. As long standing fan and user then I’ve seen my fair share of ups and downs. All positive I guess. Yet for me to have confidence in DLCs released after TSW6 will quality still be there. Because most of the new add on packs bought have problems. Some are plainly obvious yet still enter market. A sign of laziness not system limitations. And what is the situation with Epic etc?. I’ve been missing a few things with being focused elsewhere. ✌.
I think it's quite the opposite of what OP generally points to - that trust and the players' attitude towards the game is dwindling. If there's any indication such a scenario isn't happening, it's the record number of viewers of Dovetail Direct. Personally, I enjoy TSW the most of all train simulators I have. Sure, there are still issues with it, but in general I think the game has come a long way.
Well, you don’t know why those people were viewing. Personally I was one of them & I wasn’t there for new stuff as much as what’s going on with build stability. Even today there are core releases that are pretty much unplayable thanks to texture degradation. At the same time I certainly don’t buy into the whole DTG is going to lose X, they’ve been the same since they formed & will be until they dissolve, at this point many of the existing users know what they’re buying into. My trust can’t really stoop much lower when it comes to DTG, but I still hope to be surprised by them - then again this texture problem is likely to be one of those issues that’s here forever & barely mentioned. Much like Z-Fighting & sound distortion on Xbox. At the end of the day though DTG couldn’t care less either way. They have a monopoly on train simulation & people have nowhere else to turn when it comes to it, with TSC they made their money through third parties & with TSW they just put on a marketing circus once a year. They’ve never really been a company to be ‘customer first’.
I get the impression the dev team DOES care a lot, but they’re being hamstrung by the constant pressure to deliver New Shiny Stuff to keep the money rolling in. Hence the lack of a full route in Cardiff, for example, or bugs that rarely get addressed. The only way out of this is to either increase the size of dev team (comes with its own problems - code merges, getting up to speed on a quirky dev environment etc) or to scale back on the quarterly deliverables. Both lead to a drop in profit, and profit is obviously the bottom line for the upper management here. It seems like a Catch-22 to me - without profit the company slowly bleeds to death. Having no idea who owns what and who gets the big bonuses it’s hard to say whether or not anyone is being greedy, but perhaps one fix would be to plough all profits back into the company* for a year or so to ramp up the dev team. That way the company grows, the quality and maintenance issues are addressed, and profit is stimulated further. Win-win… *unlikely, I know. Once you get used to bonuses… but there’s more to capitalism than naked profiteering!
It'd be easier for you to check out the thread called 'Epic games losing most dlc', but to sum up, a significant number of TSW2020-TSW5 dlcs are not being carried forward to TSW6; likely due to restrictions Epic are imposing on the number of dlcs a game can have available in their store. There are some big things missing, from old classics like London Commuter, to the very recent (and excellent) class 170 pack for BCC. Re: quality, we'll know more on that front when the new core routes live streams start next week. I wouldn't expect anything groundbreaking. TSW will always be TSW. The screenshots do look fantastic. Fingers crossed it plays smoothly enough. All I can say for now is the 3 core routes are all great choices, and the routes coming in the future on the roadmap are in my opinion far superior to most the routes we received during TSW5. Very positive today. I hope that positivity lasts until 25/9!
Once I'd got my frustration that my favourite routes/rolling stock weren't on the roadmap once again, I did start getting excited about the GWR route and will be buying it and the Voyager. I still love TSC and TSW, though they are very different experiences. . If TSW7 brings further segments of the LMR network and nothing for the Eastern Region and/or something from the Network South East era, that love will start to be tested though. You build your collection, investing in the franchise accepting that not every release appeals in the hope that at some point it will be your turn, one of your favourite sections of the network. The longer you wait, the more expensive the hobby gets, then I can see why some are losing faith. Maybe it'll be me in a year or two. I know DTG can't accommodate everyone's wishes, but the UK routes should at least be shared-out around the regions. As I've said before, it's a frustration that based on the old BR regions, LMR has 14 routes, Eastern has 2. Southern 4, Western 4. Scottish 3. It's time for DTG and the other content builders to start to balance those numbers out a little, accepting that LMR was the most extensive BR Region but the current imbalance isn't fair and is starting to get a bit boring/frustrating. Surely DTG has a say in what the third party builders produce and they will say something if, for example, Just Trains suggest a forth route from Preston next year.
When DTG or a 3rd Party like Just Trains or Skyhook* get it right, TSW is absolutely amazing. Sadly, they don’t always get it right and that causes a great deal of disappointment or understandable negativity within the community. Sometimes even a strong or very strong backlash. The community reacts this way, only because they want TSW to be the very best it can be and feel let down when something misses the mark. *Skyhook had a rocky start, but their commitment to continual improvement to MML after release was very well received.
I think that's right. They seem to make decisions purely based on business strategies. There's really no customer centric feeling to what they do. The best example of that is this annual marketing blitz, aimed at attracting new customers while grossly inconveniencing existing loyal players. And when difficult or discomforting questions come up like this Epic issue, they simply vaporize into radio silence. They know that they have nothing to fear from what little competition exists, so no need to explain or commiserate. As far as the game itself is concerned, we'll see in September whether there's any improvement in quality as prices increase. And as for the " future " dlc they featured in that spinning game, for me it's " believe it when I see it " based on past Roadmaps.
I dunno about JT, but if I was a 3rd party dev I wouldn't take too kindly to being told to work on a line I wasn't personally interested in. I don't know how the 3rd party arrangement works, but as a freelance dev myself I wouldn't touch a contract that had any outside control built into it (with the obvious exception of being contracted to provide some particular functionality to pre-agreed timescales).
So it's time to lobby Just Trains. I'll do so in a polite, constructive but passionate way. Being gnarly doesn't get you anywhere. I would think that DTG would have some say though. For example, if Joe Bloggs Simulation wanted to release something that would be so detailed that it wouldn't run very well on any platform, would DTG ask them to scale it back a bit. I think they would. Some developers have bad ideas, as we've seen in TSC with some routes being absolutely awful and really badly optimised.
Right okay I follow you now. Maybe Epic are removing because of poor sales figures and would rather give space to newer more popular games. Thanks for the information tho. And yes quality. Recently I’ve been using TSW4 and have found it runs way smoother than TSW5. I couldn’t tell the difference, and I wouldn’t do because there is no individual game file as you will know. All the files are shared, if TSW3 to 5 is installed on PS5. Yet I’ve seen a drastic drops in the last few months on certain routes. Mostly the newer routes and especially if I have the Ai livery and Formations on. DTG have made it known performance is something they are working on. In some ways I can expect things like performance issues if devs are pushing the limits to provide longer routes and more background detail. The WCML is just jaw dropping on that front. So my issues are not really about the core game. I do how ever have a major issue when easy simple things get missed and not even fixed at any point. My past experience of getting a ticket then spoken to a DTG staff member about missing mastery reward and the mess LPC was on release. There was a few more things mentioned with LD models yet after 2 years not been fixed. Even tho I bought a DLC for a certain loco. One I can’t use. Raising a ticket was a waste of time, I felt if a problem effects an individual or a customer is not stratified that individual is not treat as one. Only if DTG feel it’s a problem will it get fixed when I don’t feel that right if a person is to heard or felt valuable as a customer. Regardless of how much data the computer has to raise the alarm shouldn’t come before an individual customer needs or after sales service. You can see why I’m raising this point on products be a main title or issue when it comes to add on packs. My love or will to spend has slowly wained the longer issues get un resolved. If I feel like this do others and so if there is anything I want and need from DTG with TSW6 is no messing around and get to grips with some 3rd party devs. Because I don’t want to bring the mood down I want to be excited about TSW6 but after so long in the franchise it’s the same old story The Hype, then the players feedback and then poor quality in what seems rushed product to market. So yes not attacking the game as such I want to see if others do feel it’s hard to shake the past off. Hype for TSW3 then 4 etc each one still leaves a huge mess behind and so I fear if TSW6 follows in their shadows will anything I buy be faulty. And pointless raising the issues if a computer has the end say if it’s a problem that affects other users and not the individual. TSW6 I will buy there is no doubt about that, the issue is its been bad this year with around 5 or 6 DLCs all with faults. Mostly in LD a place I spend most of my time. Again you can understand why I’ve posted and asked the question of love for the game. It’s a shame as all the hard work done gets let down by a build of small things. Because I’m a positive guy believe it or not and hey I apolozies for what seems rant on at you. Even ranting publicly. And I will agree in some ways it is pure frustration. Bought DLCs for a project and due to the issues has caused massive delays. 4 Packs with problem thinking it’s can’t get any worse and it did. If again others do feel let down and so effecting on if we spend or not and at full price. Users seem to wait for the sales or now which DLC is worth the money or not. Do you feel DTG is losing revenue this way and if so is it down to game content or a DLC full of bugs. And if TSW3/4/5 was meant to be the one yet didn’t fix many existing problems from past routes will TSW6 be the one to change all that for good. Personally after this year I will think twice before spending on extra routes or add ons. With the tag line Expect the Unexpected, then I do hope that’s true and TSW6 is the polished game I have been waiting for possibly others since TSW2020. TSW5 is a great game, TSW6 doesn’t need to do much, just improve quality. Quality in act will speak for itself, therefore saving time in trying to pander to the mass with words. A little message for DTG Product quality does the hard work, as CEOs with pride in company staff. You should be able to sit back, feet on the table watching the dollars roll in. Content in the knowledge the company and those within are happy providing the best for fans of the TSW franchise. They’re close and so let’s see what TSW6 will bring ✌
This is what I’m trying to say. I’m happy for TSW6 and what DTG try to do. But that feel of being valued as an individual feels missing. Not good for any company. Lack of transparency is a must in order to build trust. Without that transparency poor content or product quality will start putting people off. Why for me I feel very nervous about spending money now and if that’s the case will I be enticed to by TF3. Why I am trying to establish if what we share in common is a wider issue hurting DTG so something can be done if this is a problem consisting of many individuals left unheard now or in the past. Will TSW6 even their new Discord server tackle the lack of transparency when it comes to the nitty gritty. If there’s room or area to open in a construction manner to resolve issues then that path must be taken. Especially in today’s media landscape where anything said wrongly or missed can result in some major back lash that can do harm to a person or company reputation. By DTG stepping toward a more face to face relationship with user is in some way a good indicator there heading in the right direction. Early days yet. If TSW6 is to bring something back then it better be trust and faith to fans in what DTG say. ✌
That fair but just to clarify no individual company has been mentioned by me. It’s a thread not to attack but to find out if user trust and faith the love has slowly faded now this has become a yearly occurrence. I have no problem with this myself. I do when it comes to products actually received with not much chance of anything being looked into. It’s too see if consumers faith has dropped and what can be done to change that. For subbing then I’ve had experience in this. When setting a verbal agreement before any written contract is drawn and signed is so under certain conditions that must be met. So if it was important that I had 24hrs 365 day 3rd party hire for a 4 day tour contract being offered must met those conditions. Both parties must be in full agreement before anything moves. If tired to any agreement tho can be draining growth off another company involved. Be DTG placing hard time targets on a 3rd party dev or the 3rd party failing to deliver on signed agreements resulting in poor quality of work. Or small mistake get missed due to rushing. I wish I had more background in how devs work but if I was to be one and offered work I wouldn’t enter if I couldn’t deliver and that contract tired me from any of freedom with my own line of work. Be design or a game developer or artist creative freedom the passion is what matters and delivers with pride. Done as Job with no real creativity incentive to put heart and soul into what a person without is what I call soul destroying. Why I never clock watch or do road maps. Time to create is more important and freedom to enjoy that creative time and space is what’s so special about being independent away from a big company house Big companies care not for the creative passion but the end of year profits. I was there in the 90s when EA was fun and had many small independent companies. Fun game developer but soon as the big companies absorbed the lot it became more about money than entertainment. The days of Worms or Cannon Fodder. Simple and fun. Now it’s money money money, stress and frustration. I have never spoke to anyone at JT and I’m always open to be educated even corrected. Yet JT or any company other than DTG as the main publisher has been mentioned because who knows what agreements are in place and who is responsible for what. No individual person or company is being attacked because it’s not about attacking, it’s about understanding the bigger picture when it comes to consumer faith and if it’s lacking will TSW6 be dealing directly with what’s lingered with past TSW release. Price, quality and to be more transparent with fans who feel there is no longer loyalty between company and customers. And it’s just the same old script each year. Will TSW6 change all that. I need that reassurance if I am to continue spending past the core game release. I’ll be buying that no question asked. Additional adds on will be a different question tho after this year. ✌
I should clarify that my intention was not to attack but, as a consumer, give feedback regarding content. I think it's an important factor when considering if "the love has gone" and rather than give a "yes" or "no" answer without any context, I feel it best to explain where the vulnerabilities are with regard to my current feelings about the direction TSW is going in. There are exciting things that have been announced. I'm looking forward to seeing the random events roster increase over time, the improvement of ambient sounds and station announcements are all great and may eventually bring life to older routes if updated. I'm also looking forward to the two GWR releases, finally the Western Region is being given some love. A mainline route in the South West was missing until now which was a shame as it's a beautiful part of the country. I'm on the fence at this juncture to be honest. I like where the core game is going but some of the route choices by developers have left me feeling underwhelmed this year, with a nagging worry that we're going to have a significant network around the NW in a couple of years while other, more interesting, sections of the UK system and their traction types get completely overlooked. Has the love gone? Not yet, but sometimes relationships feel like they're forever and sometimes you feel like you might want to move on to something else in the future.
I'm much more excited about TSW6 than i was TSW5- I think there are significant feature upgrades to justify a new version aside from the annual marketing exercise. TSW5 just never seemed like it had a real reason for being, and with one of the launch routes being a disaster (leaks, losing branding, awful timetable), the year got off to a bad start, and then really hit a nadir with the botched Thomas reveal in December. Imo, they've turned things around since then and i'm looking forward to TSW6!
I was hoping to try tsw6 on game pass then dtg dropped the bomb they have no plans on releasing it on game pass. Bit disappointed. The Riviera line and Morristown line both grabbed my attention but at the same time you need to pay extra for the full experience with the deluxe edition. The love isn't gone but I am starting to wonder. There's always the free upgrade but are any of the new features backwards compatible?
I’m not sure regarding Morristown as I don’t know much about it, but at least for the Riviera I wouldn’t say you need the deluxe. The layers from GWE will do a hell of a lot more for the route than the Voyager does. It’s certainly not as substantial as last years deluxe loco for the UK, which essentially mandatory for TSW5’s core UK route.
I wouldn't fret too much about gamepass- I suspect TSW6 will arrive on GP sometime after the free starter offer expires. Signal delays and TSRs are backwards compatible per the FAQ- all other new features are TSW6.
I’ll admit I am a bit fatigued by TSW. I started in 2021 and have hundreds of hours in all releases but TSW5 was definitely my least played one with only around 100 hours vs 300+ in the others. 5 didn’t work very well on a lot of routes for PS5 to me. Right from launch 2 of the 3 launch routes barely worked, either tons of crashes (WCML) or terrible performance (Frankfurt). Almost all routes have been plagued by technical and performance issues, blurred textures being the most annoying and obvious one to me. There have been bright spots of course, lots thanks to what TSG and JT managed to put out, but overall my interest in TSW has dropped off a cliff. The presentation for 6 was awesome, and the new routes and trains really do interest me, but at the end of the day I know it’s going to have the same technical issues as 5 if not worse. And it if the last releases are any indication it could take months before the new routes are in a playable state to me. The new features as always seem slightly interesting but as a TSW veteran things like unscheduled events just make me cringe. The timetables/dispatcher system as is can barely cope with some of the cookie cutter timetables, I have a bad feeling about throwing bad signals and restrictions into the mix. I feel like we are in for a mess of stuck trains. We will see though. I’d rather they just focus on the game an fixing it vs pounding out new flashy stuff at an unreasonable pace. As a console player who loves sim games, I have to say my hype interest this year has completely moved over to the fact that American Truck Simulator/ETS2 are heading to PS5 and Xbox.
Don’t get me wrong, there is (ish - 1-2TPH from Plymouth & 1 train every 2/3 hours out of Paignton) But it’s not like WCMLS where the headliner services would be absent. In comparison the 166 should run 2TPH down to Paignton, with more AI at Exeter & Plymouth. This would bulk out the Eastern end of the route & the 150’s/802’s will bulk the Western end.
I don’t think it’s necessary the love has gone, but the after-care. Improvements to dlc only get done now at the cost of the consumer. I’ve said this many times in the past, but I wish Dovetail would relocate some staff to focus on remastering older routes, like how Liam has done with WSR, CC and GWR. This is based on my IMO only, but I find playing legacy DLC, especially TSW2 era and before a horrible experience, well on console at least. PC users may have a better experience due to mods. I miss playing routes like ECW and London Commuter, but they look too outdated for me to enjoy them. I hope Dovetail introduce a preservation style team in the future that just focus on remastering or remaking routes (with extensions) paid or in-paid. Dovetail make it happen.
I tend to rekindle my interest when the monthly mastery arrives but I have so much else I want to play, can often find myself resenting the grind a bit.
I came into TSW a month or two after TSW4 was released so I'm a relative newcomer compared to many. I play mainly on a PS5 but I do have a small number of routes on my laptop (which is a bit of a beast so copes well), so I can sometimes run the ECML while I'm on the ECML in real life, and the same with the occasional trip on the WCML too. While I have encountered and been frustrated by a number of issues in TSW5, many of which have been resolved to a degree, there are also a lot of things people on the forums have repeatedly said have been 'immersion breaking', I have encountered the odd such issue but in a lot of situations I've not realised they have been issues as my knowledge and real life experience is not as detailed as some others who post here. That being said, I would like to see developers strive to get things right the first time, I've not had as terrible experience as some others. I've been a big fan of the London Overground routes, along with the classic Bakerloo line, as well as Cajon pass and some of the older routes including GWE (which I'm very much looking forward to the remaster. I do sound a bit meh typing this, but I have pre ordered the special edition, not just because of the extra locos in deluxe edition, but because of the routes including in the special edition were ones I had put serious thoughts into getting anyway. The random signals/events thing will be intriguing, I think as others have said it risks being a nightmare, but it could equally turn out quite good. If it doesn't work, they did say on the stream that you can just turn the option off in the settings.
I lost the love with all the unfixed bugs in TSW2, and vowed not to spend any more money on TSW. Then tried the free TSW5, and loved it again, so bought some more content (but only when it was discounted). Also picked up a disk copy of TSW4 (mainly to get the trophies for some content I bought that didn't have trophies in TSW5). Then... some bugs became apparent in TSW5, and now TSW6 has been announced, they aren't going to get fixed. Then there were routes without trophies at all. Then I saw the price of some of the packages for TSW6. Then I saw that TSW6 is being released on PS4. Now not feeling the love so much. It's going to take massive discounts to make me part with any cash.
Hey non taken personal at all, and always best to clarify when having such a discussion. One as you now rightly point out. For readers then my tone is not one to put down DTG or TSW6. I’m a fan so wouldn’t do that. Yet again I am also a consumer and like emotions of happy and sad it’s still the same emotions scales. Just different ends. Same with taking about issues or how good something is. We can freely pass opinions when all is good but seem like no one’s want to confront the really issues for fear of touching upon areas some dare treading. Why this is then I can only assume no one wants to be seen in that context. What I call wanting to be validated and go with the majority. Personally I don’t follow the messes which can make me seem a lose cannon especially when posting a thread of such nature. Yet we are consumers and fans where we should be able to voice our opinions be one’s good or bad. That’s fairness and correct information not miss information if vital parts of information are disregarded. Nothing gets raised and so nothing gets done. I’m happy we here can discuss without that fear as talking not fighting is the best way forward for all if there’s a lack of love sometimes and like a relationship with out thrust and honesty will not last long. If that’s missing for some or been beaten out of them over the years how can that love between us the costumer and DTG is a kinda of relationships build back trust and faith. And I will be open about my feelings on TSW6. I’m very happy about the new features over TSW6. Each year it does get better and to this day ponder how it all gets done. It does amaze me and only wish I could now more on how the teams at DTG do what they do. Would allow me more insight into their roles rather than thinking everything is easy. I honestly love TSW they do try hard. I think some fail to remember it’s a company at the end of the day and they too must face high operational and staffing cost. Many companies are struggling like most of DTG customers. Money so sadly the small things even larger issues in game just never get looked at. Again to be fair to DTG the core game has a few flaws but ones I can live with. I see past them, like a rattle in a car that is no longer noticeable in time. It’s this tend of allowing more faulty products to reach its customers. To me that’s quality control and left unchecked can do massive damage not now but later on when love has gone and faith has faded away for any real change. I can’t keep wasting money or feel uncomfortable about buying a product. That’s just me yet if there are more like me not willing to spend then that’s revenue DTG is not taking all because the love for TSW just fades because nothing changes. On the surface for TSW6 I’m 50/50 as I feel this game is aimed more towards newer players. I’m happy about the new features too. Underneath all that fancy stuff is there a problem with product quality and customer not feeling like an individual if it just gets logged waiting and waiting for a computer to decide the next move. And that’s the moment the heart slowly understands this relationship could be one sided. Cheated so will move to form a new friendship with a trending game. Because if using word relationship then man TSW is a difficult girlfriend. Can’t stand her at times but with love I forget all that. She even surprises me every now and then. But if she’s only with me for my money then I’m off. ✌
I wonder how the 166 will perform on the Riviera. Since the adjustments I have to drive it like I'm on the London underground to keep to schedule on Gwe. And that's just relatively flat straight track. If the voyager layers into all the other routes it should, then it might be worth getting.
I can definitely see it struggling here, since it’ll be running over the fastest part of the route (75-100mph). Personally I’m not entirely sure on the Deluxe edition this year. The Riviera & 220 come out a good wack cheaper & I’m not nearly as excited for the other offerings this year. Performance & stability is a concern for the new DRA & the upcoming Stamford line is more my thing than the Morristown.
Well said. It’s proven the point I’m making here for fans that was loyal but had enough. I myself quit twice. Different mind set back then but game issues and working on livery’s just become overwhelming. My personal issue that kinda get worse when faced with a situation I am. Do I complain get nothing done and walk away more frustrated than I am now. This Model with no wheels, placed feedback on the Diesel rail tour pack yet no one cares. No wheels if using LD and same on track. I bought a number of add ons each with a similar issue. There has to be a time when one says enough is enough. I don’t want to feel like this. I want to enjoy and still love TSW, but that’s hard when everything one seems to by is faulty at the end of the day. I’ve own a lot of routes and been buying since TSW2020. And have to say TSW5 has not been a great experience in the amount of extra releases with little faults that prevent me from fully enjoying my purchase. We all know that all the add on packs will continue in TSW6. My fear or even anxiety about fully embracing TSW6 is born from the past experience. Again seems you feel the same as me and if others do why. And can it be stopped. Would I be wrong in saying if a customer is reluctant to spend money this I’m sure will be reflected on the company sheets. People will hold off while they wait for the inevitable issue to emerge before buying. TSW6 is released not long before Christmas too. A small oversight on DTGs parts. People don’t spend in September and think well there will be a sale on near Christmas. DTG is making very small if no profits at all from discount income. It’s a tend or patten. One DTG customer user have gotten use to and will do because humans naturally follow patterns, trends. Makes them feel a sense of belonging or the right thing to do. A trend is born so are the cracks in a business model. We see the trend, but unable to see the cracks behind the wall when stood on the outside. Yet there’s always that pattern to gain information from. The emerging pattern of past products not fixed before a new release. A script written in TSW2 ashes. I would like to see TSW6 rip that script up and write a new one if there to be a future. Those in the future will only be there if written by them. ✌
I wouldn't necessarily say that the love is gone, on the contrary. TSW is getting bigger and bigger, and so is its customer base. A lot of people here on the forums are complaining about a lot of issues, yes. But some are complaining just for the sake of complaining, while others complain because they love the game and want it to be its best self. After trying Zusi 3, TSC and SimRail for a while myself, I kept sticking with TSW. To me, it just offers the best middle ground. It's been mentioned a couple of times already, but I would like to underline it once more: My biggest gripe with TSW, or rather DTG, is the shameful lack of care for existing "content" (there it is again, that awful word). A new route is basically abandoned in terms of maintenance and care, once it's released. Only very few bugs ever get fixed, and mostly the major ones. New features rarely get added retroactively to older routes. Just imagine how much immersion a route like S-Bahn Frankfurt would gain from passenger ambience or especially announcements in TSW 6. But instead of maintainig the existing stuff properly and keeping it relevant (and to an extent profitable), DTG's focus is on creating more and more and more new routes. I can see where they're coming from, but in the long term the game will suffer from this mindset, and that's a shame.
Anecdotally, when GWR first cascaded the 165’s and 166’s to the Bristol area, they lost time hand over fist particularly on the Severn Beach Line. They could not maintain 143/150 point to point times, quite often resulting in trains being turned short at Clifton Down or Avonmouth to recover the service.
Maybe the love of long time players is a little bit gone. In my opinion the best routes are made back in the TSW, TSW2020 and TSW2 era. I still like to play the game, but DTG news is not really exiting anymore. There is so much more to do, but it just don't happen. There are so many German operators, but we got more DB. We even get the same trains in TSW6, because it's only an extension of a existing route. The most exiting news/routes are coming from 3rd parties. DTG is playing it save, they litterly said they have done the things people asked for, so what could go wrong? Well atleast they didn't suprise me with anything, for the whole stream there wasn't any wow moment. Only with the 3rd party routes I had something like, interesting. My love for the new stuff is gone, to many issues and not really exiting, but there is still love for the older routes.
At an all-time low, I even deleted the game from my PlayStation because it's way too much disk space for a minimum of fun. TSW like it is now is not going to cut it for me. I have come to the realization that with the engine they are using, they will never get the game performance-wise to the quality level I expect from a train simulator on Playstation. I'm a gamer, so I don't really care about accuracy and all of that stuff. I'm just looking for a good time, and TSW is more frustration than a good time. The German route with limited timetables on PS5 was the nail in the coffin for me. It's TSW 2 all over, but this time there is no carrot like a next-generation console on the horizon that would fix all the current problems.
I totally understand you point about the reduced timetable, it's just like you're buying a incomplete product. The way "forward" would be Unreal Engine 5, however this engine only would make performance worse compared to UE4. I also don't see them switch to Unity for example, so are we reaching the end of the line? With UE4 it should be possible to get some performance, but it looks like they're not good at optimizing at all. They are just adding and adding more stuff until it goes wrong. The older routes are running ok on current gen consoles, but still with stutters and frame drops. Since TOD4, performance is decreased and you can argue if it looks better or not, I would say no. They are saying still be busy with optimizing, however I first need to see it, as I don't believe. Also it's a little to late, TSW5 has performance issues all it's lifecycle.
UE5 would be a death knell for TSW. It really requires solid optimisation, but DTG don’t allow anywhere near enough dev time for that, even with UE4.
I'll weight the options closer to release. Morristown comes with the arrow which I prefer to the newer stock. Riviera comes with plenty of services, I'm not a big fan of the voyager although it will be nice to see it whizz past. The Stamford line sounds promising and some other upcoming 3rd party releases. Might just go with the standard edition.
My brutally honest opinion is that the Riviera Line is the weakest UK core route choice for at least two years. Both PBO-DON and WCMLS are my go-to core routes and still enjoy them, despite the bugs that still plague them. I think the highlight of last year was getting the Pendo…but it was hampered by the dire timetable on release, which was frankly inexcusable. ECML has its weak points too, given that stretch of the line is the least engaging and is agonisingly close to York, which really could’ve completed it. I’d still say they’re good fun to drive though, on balance. Of course we all have our favoured routes and our own wish lists, that might impact on whether we are still enjoying TSW and/or excited for TSW6. I am not feeling like a kid on Christmas Eve about anything GWR-related because I live nowhere near the South West and have no affinity with the line…unlike ECML and to a lesser extent WCMLS. On the basis that Birmingham-Crewe teasers look incredible and we’re getting an 805 + WCMLS timetable revamp (again), I’d still say I love TSW…about 75% of the time!
You must be joking right? The community has wanted the Riviera line in the game for the longest time, going back as far as TSW3. Riviera has much more to offer than the likes of PDO - DON which is one of the most uninteresting stretches of the ECML by DTG. Riviera is an iconic route with amazing scenery. It offers a mix of fast and semi-fast services with the 802 and 150. You can’t compare the likes of the ECML section with the Riviera, sorry. If we were comparing Kings X - PBO then I’d have to use another route. The ECML is the weakest core route in the game IMO.
I think the choice of South Devon is a good one, but not necessarily the era. Driving a Cucumber from Exeter to Plymouth sound wise will be the same as driving the 801 on ECML, unless DTG buff the diesel engine sound into the end driving vehicles. These Hitachi sets are also incredibly powerful even on diesel. Coming back up the Stroud Valley on a 5 car Class 800 a couple of weeks ago, which is pretty much solid 1 in 60 from Stroud up to Sapperton Tunnel, the driver was constantly throttling back to keep within the speed limit. Back in the day a Class 47 or 50 would have been on full throttle coming up there.
Agree with this. Would have been much more interesting if (let’s say) JT had modelled the route in the BR Blue era.
I’m also not a regular of GWR operations, however I did spend the best part of a year working out of NR’s depot in Plymouth so it’s the area of their network I’m most familiar with. Personally I think the route choice was top notch. We’ve had back to back straight liner AC mainlines for the core UK lines now so I’m glad we’ve got something quite different in that regard. It’s a shame they’ve done the era it’s in though, considering they’ve already taken a big step to venture away from 125mph AC lines, they could have taken a smaller one away from ultramodern. I assume FGW has licensing issues but it would have been great to get 142/143’s & 153’s. Along with the cursed 3 car 158’s. The least interesting train that’s ever gone across the route is the IET’s. We’re probably going to see every iteration of IET in TSW going forward, would have been nice for this route to be at least a little backdated. In any case I’m glad it’s not another something akin to ECML. Everything from rolling stock to geography on that route is boring. At least here we’ll get some variety on both those fronts.
I couldn’t agree more. You hit the nail and the head. My reason why I’ve set this thread up. Finding that balance of speaking with less frustration or lashing out for lashing out sake. I’m thankful to you and all that have been posting comments on again what I feel some hold back from. I believe by being honest is to work towards a solution for DTGs benefits with a better future for the franchise moving forward in mind. I do find it hard to enjoy news of a new release when the back catalogue is left behind yet as you say if updated would bring new life to old purchase. Yet sorry to say I think I know the reason for this. A upgraded new routes with the new core features will offer more appeal in terms of sales. Here I see players may not have time to fully enjoy the features from release and by the time anything is shorted the next game is mentioned. And why I full back up and agree on the damage that can accumulate, not to mention the way customers see that trend. It’s to fasted paced in sales to rushed when the amount of back catalogue they have if upgraded across the board would give all past customers a product they thought they was buying at the time. Cost in doing this would be a benefit in the long term. It would definitely shake off the negative customer opinion some share especially for long standing customers who have seen the patterns form DTG market strategy. A big loop of building a bigger customer base that is for a small time there. But do those customers spend. A will these new continue to spend after they too start to see the patterns long standing fans have. On a positive note tho and after mentioning some draw backs with DTG I came across a new project run by them. I won’t say to much about it as the information can be found on their Discord server. It’s really interesting if you are interested in games and helping improve life for gamers while assisting a company project. Personally I’m more excited about Play Lab then TSW6 A path in the right direction after what’s been said. Play Lab. Something set up for real gamers who want to help improve DTG products and gamer experience. Even an option for other games from Focus. Again a path in the right direction and a real indication DTG are taking how some feel seriously to open such a project up for players to be hands on with DTG. A real positive move, a little eye opener for me. Will this news do the same thing for you maybe or others wanting to help DTG. It’s definitely an opportunity for those like us wanting to help. And with this I’d like share my thanks and appreciation (Edit) to you and to all that’s commented. To pass our opinion even if negative means it’s shared to help improve the game and support a game we love. Not a ranting match to thrown poo at the DTG’s fan. Express our thoughts and feelings. Transparency from us Transparency is a way forward and so must start somewhere. Love. Well we wouldn’t be here so concerned if we didn’t care ✌
It's one of my favourite games, and agree to disagree but like just driving, not really exploring as such. Its one of my most played games.
