Leipzig - Dresden: What Would You Like To See Improved Compared With Original Riesa - Dresden Route?

we didn’t have this issue when SEHS was extended and I’m sure there was layers from that also. No reason with this extension couldn’t have been handled the same way to avoid duplication and a waste of time downloading 2 versions of the same route.

 

Yup, the original SEHS provided layer dependencies for at least BML. There was also the 465 which layered in & that was a standalone addon which was entirely removed from TSW.

In any case as I commented earlier, it would be easier if DTG would just roll certain rolling stock into the core. I’m not sure they’re still making money from the 146, Talent 2, Dostos, class 66 etc. In fact I think it was TSW 3 that did introduce a 146.2, Dostos & talent 2 free for all players, as the KWG DLC needed them as AI.

 

OG Dresden Riesa is my most played route, so I am VERY excited for this, finally being able to do complete journeys ... with the LZB section there will be even more variety in terms of speed, plus the transitions between LZB and PZB which I love to do ... and with ICE-T finally fixed I am looking forward a lot... hopefully the 112 and similar locos get fixed in time (tho 143 from Frankfurt S-Bahn was fine in the braking department)

 

Thats because they used the same addon and extended it to Ashford which, in comparison to Riesa to Leipzig, is not long.
As far as i know SEHS does not take part in any major timetable layers across the UK route catalogue?
You say there is no reason why DTG couldnt have just extended the existing dlc, so why dont you just name some of the technical details on why this would be the case? After all you seem very confident about your opinion but you havent named a single argument yet.
Sure, money will be one of the dozen reasons, but for 77km extra and another remaster for the existing part, i do believe they know that existing players with DRA would just use the free starter pack to get the extension. Seems a bit unfair for DTG, no?
In the end, they could have released Leipzig to Riesa as a standalone route with route hopping points and more than enough length to verifiy it. Would you have prefered that?

 

SEHS- which was not all that old when rebuilt - did not have a collection of rolling stock which had subsequently been repeatedly upgraded. The Javelin, 375 and 465 remained (and remain) unchanged from when they first appeared in TSW2. (There is no reason to do so, as they don't appear as "core" trains on any other route) That just isn't the case with the DRA locos, four years on. You couldn't get away with releasing a new route in 2025 which reverts to the same rolling stock designs released with Rush Hour.

 

plus lets not forget the new trackage includes LZB section, new freight yard... so lots of stuff that will challenge my potato PC similarly to Frankfurt Fulda and Frankfurt S-Bahn... I mean, LEIPZIG, dammit ... we are finally getting the surface giant, not just the underground

 

Matt has said more than once why they don't do this. I'm not sure I'm entirely convinced, but I can't say he's wrong, either.

Suppose they took one engine- say, the BR 146.2 - and consolidated all its many versions into one single Master 146 which is depot'ed at the Training Center and is used on all German routes.

Now: there's a bug in the Master 146 which has to be fixed. You fix the bug- but then it has to be tested. On every single route where the 146 appears, in all scenarios, across at least a plurality of timetables. The bug fix would take three years to release!

 

Yes & rather than deal with the issue, it’s now going to take even more time to fix for every other route added since & still to be added. At the very least they could start with some sort of master model system now, even if the current problems remain.

The 146 is much less of an offender than something like the dosto or 66, but either way just continually adding duplicate models is a sloppy way of working. It’s one thing having 7 of the same loco installed, but we’re now having to keep redundant routes installed to.

Considering everything Matt’s said about optimisation & memory saving, how it’s a long job which is done in many smaller actions - this DRA issue seems like the quick move rather than the smart one.

 

Can anyone detailed what exactly will be lost if original DRA is uninstalled? Particularly anything that can't be replaced by stuff from other German routes

 

It isn't "can't be" so much as "won't be." You would think that say a 146.2 or Dosto from Kassel-Wurzburg would casually slot into Tharandter Rampe's 146/Dosto layer, but that layer is in fact keyed to the presence of the DRA 146 and Dostos; without those, the layer never unlocks. (This doesn't mean you won't get other versions whenever you load into a service, but the game does something like "Check for DRA 146 > unlock 146 layer > substitute other 146 for DRA 146")

 

speaking of 146.2, my personal advice is to use the Frankfurt Fulda version, that one has LZB actually working, with LZB/AFB exit procedure working (aside from the visual bug which sometimes shows PZB 85 thing on the display upon exiting LZB) - thats also the one I did my fav Ukraine-themed livery for

 

I'd love a "master" dosto or 66 but i can't see it coming anytime soon. I remember Skyook Adam put a detailed description why it can't / won't be done.

 

The 375 received new sounds, and all three trains had updated destination screens which scroll showing all stations the train calls at.

 

All right, fair enough. But it was the same SEHS trains that got upgrades, it's not like there were other 395s etc in other routes.

 

With in the discord finally getting someone to look into the ICE-T and other ICE's broken MFD for PZB Wachsam showing up I do hope with no new rolling stock but a deluxe loco the core stock has had some updates. this is the second german route coming with no new stock, I hope that isn't becoming the standard. as shown with the IC2 and CZ loco's including still lots of freight there is no lack of new rolling stock. I mean when was the last freight wagon added from DTG. TSW3 launch with the RP Vectron 2 years ago?

 

As I have used the editor in my own timetable before, those are NOT dependent on the route. Technically, each loco of a route is its own "DLC" and you depend on those.

DTG have now a twofold problem: first, not all locos of DRA are in the new route. Therefore, existing timetables and future timetables intending to use these locos MUST depend on the old package and hence require DRA to be installed. The other issue is that they not just bundle the same locos with the new route but actually provide new clones with it with some subtle modifications. So even the locos that are included in the new route are technically completely different for the timetable and any timetable depending on the old version will still require DRA to be present.

They would need to go to each timetable that requires one of the provided locos, replace the dependency and also update the formations within the timetables and then recalculate those timetables. While there shouldn't be any problems (no timing should be affected), it won't be certain and testing would have to occur again in full for all of them.

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I absolutely would love to see a KISS finally in the game. But specifically these IC 2 KISS are sold by the Deutsche Bahn to ÖBB. The reason: they use a new toilet that the DB cannot maintain on its own and they had to go to Vienna every second day for toilet cleaning, even though none of them had revenue services remotely near that.

As a timetable editor and because yards are included: please DTG make sure to place yard exit signals on each one of them and don't use automatic junctions within them. Otherwise they are nice to look at but cannot be used.

For the BR 294: please enable it to couple to EMUs/DMUs which the yellow thing at the front/back indicates. Then it will finally be possible to build scenarios/timetables to shunt EMUs to Diesel only areas or rescue them if they fail.

The S-Bahn branch to Leipzig from Engelsdorf via MDR in addition to an overhaul of the tunnel section would be fantastic. It is too late for now if it isn't already included but there is a yard area near Engelsdorf and it would be great if at least that is available in the game for shunting/freight.

 

Layers themselves are not the problem. You could just deliver everything as an update to the Dresden - Riesa route, and as long as a few important files for each loco are still in the same place afterwards, it will work. You don't have to resimulate every timetable that a locomotive is in every time you update that loco in any way.

SEHS did just that, and it could also have done it if its locos had layers on a bunch of different routes. But, if you make Dresden - Leipzig an update for the Dresden - Riesa route, then that update will be free for anyone who has the new core game! And that is a problem because - unlike when SEHS came out - there is now a way to get just the core game for free.

Of course, DTG would probably like to make some money, so they sell Dresden - Leipzig as a separate product, but that then means that DRA has to keep existing for the layers, and for people who didn't buy Dresden - Leipzig.

So if a couple of wasted GB on my hard drive is the price I pay for the existence of the Free Starter Pack, that's worth it in my opinion.

Those run from Dresden to Berlin, not to Leipzig.

That's a shunting coupler, same as the 363 has. It can't couple to the Scharfenberg couplers on EMUs.

 

1.
I'd like to know if the performance will be better than the Frankfurt routes, which all have terrible performance and playability.

A lot of AI services are all well and good, but if playability suffers so much as a result - damn it, I don't have a NASA computer - maybe they shouldn't cram the sidings and platform tracks so much.

2.
The layer settings also need to be revised. It would be much better to have the option to permanently (!) deactivate or activate certain layers. Currently, you have to reset these settings before every ride, which is really annoying.

 

I could swear I saw something about layers being off by default now?

 

And Matt said that it remembers it this time.

 

maybe on consoles, on PC I havent noticed a lack of AI layers/trains

 

It’s coming in with TSW6.

 

serious or one of the myriad jokes about bugs and stuff ?

 

IMO that just screams "the performance is bad"

 

Yeah it’s definitely a move to reduce complaints, many players don’t bother with settings in games, it’s why most of the time they default to crossplay on, open lobbies etc. Essentially whatever the default it is usually stays on & the default tends to be what the developer prefers.

I’m surprised I haven’t seen more people speak up about this, as I don’t think it’s a great idea with any factors considered, let alone as a potential workaround to performance issues.

As usual though DTG will do anything but effectively address an issue in the first instance, it always has to become game breakingly severe.

 

Another comparison is LIRR. To this day I still have the old legacy route installed, simply because without it I don't get the layers in NYT: LIRR 2.0' revamped trains don't do it.

 

It's quite concerning. I saw on the recent video of the gameplay footage that the layer selector said "Note: You may run into performance issues if you turn on layers". In the past, routes were expected to perform adequately with all layers enabled (apart from gen8 for obvious reasons). It's like what happened with the Frankfurt S-bahn when the heavily reduced timetable subtly got changed to be the "standard" one. If you look back at routes like BML and SEHS, they performed fine with layers enabled. Now, they're basically saying that the performance is still bad, and hasn't been fixed.

 

But they already "have" to test every version of 146 on every timetable in appears in.

 

Bold of you to assume they do

 

Hence why "have" was in quotation marks!

 

Forgive my ignorance, but why would they have to QA test a loco on every single route? Surely if you fix a bug on a loco, that bug fix works regardless of the route you run it on?

 

Hypothetically there could be route-specific interactions that cause issues. However, that's already a potential issue with layering.

 

its happening with tsw6

 

For timetables you don't really need to test every single loco

Nah, they don't really. As long as they still behave mostly the same when driven by the AI, and all the vehicles are compatible with one another, any changes to a loco don't matter for whether or not a timetable works. Well, within reason, of course... but if a timetable can cope with a 143 subbing in for a 146, then it can probably won't break when a slightly different 146 is used instead of the original one!

Scenarios are another thing though. Say you want to change how the instrument lights switch of the 143 works. Timetable mode will be okay... but a scenario can have an instruction to "Turn on instrument lights" - you might break that. Or it might try to turn on the instrument lights when it loads in, so that the player starts with a setup that makes sense. That might also be broken now. Better retest and potentially fix all scenarios that have a 143 in them!

 

I’m pretty sure we’ve had issues with locos on particular routes before. In fact more recently there’s the 378 which is fine on its home route, but when subbing in on Goblin or WCML, it’s gangway connectors disappear.

 

378 gangway bug affected it on SEHS atleast for me anyway.

 

With my earlier post regarding a wish to see the IC2 eventually come to Leipzig-Dresden - but, as others correctly pointed out, while the Stadler KISS would be a great addition, it doesn't traverse the whole route so wouldn't be as appropriate.

However, in my opinion, having the DB BR 147/Twindexx Vario would be my choice; obviously, in reality, these loco-hauled IC2 services are also served by the 146 too, but I'd like to see more variety!

Photos taken by myself
(Ironically, note the DB BR 101 on the left)

 

Man the TRAXX 3’s look so good, shame the 187 was so borked.

If we get an IC2 it would be great to see the dostos (never thought I’d ask for more of those), as we could have a couple of loco haul options.

 

If the 147 did ever come, I'd like to see two things:

Firstly, I really want to see the 187 finally upgraded by Skyhook to bring it up to par. Secondly, having the 147 in-game means it can be used elsewhere, namely for regional services etc in traffic red livery offering more variety across routes.

Picture taken by me

Very much agreed.

 

Not likely to happen, unfortunately.

I think it's the ugliest locomotive in Germany, hideous!

 

I rather like them! A bit more character than TRAXX 1 which just looks like Generic Modern Loco (which is a testament to its success)

 

But yeah, I’m surprised we haven’t seen IC2 yet, as it’s all based on stock we do have, and can appear in so many German routes.

 

Anyone else noticed in the FAQ for Leipzig-Dresden that it lists the ICE 1 twice:

• ICE 1 trains from the Kassel-Würzburg route Add-on adding AI traffic at Leipzig
• ICE 1 trains from the Kassel-Würzburg route Add-on adding AI traffic at Leipzig

Do you think that's an accidental duplicate or is the second ICE 1 meant to read ICE 3 perhaps DTG-Chris ?

On the subject of the FAQ it also mentions:

• The original DB BR 101 Add-on (with Hauptstrecke Rhein-Ruhr) running playable IC and EC services, including loco swaps at Dresden that can utilise the Railpool BR 193 locomotive

It doesn't clarify clearly if it actually means whether the Vectron will get its own services, namely representing those such as CD to/from Prague which obviously are not by 101s etc. Also, what about the 182/ES 64 U2 too?

One final thing, a nice touch of having the 218/n-Wagen as playable services and AI traffic at Leipzig!

 

The duplicate ICE1 line might just be an error. I think the ICE3s on the Berlin - Munich HSL run via Halle, as that allows the 4h journey time.

Maybe the 193 swap is the sleeper that runs to Leipzig?

Anyway good to clarify that nothing from the original addon appears to be lost, and that the DMU services are added at both ends.

 

And the better way is to have 9 unfixed versions of the loco along with a new one that actually got fixed?

At the next bug occuring or god forbid a planned new feature we then have 10 subpar locos with the next new version.

I don't get how anyone would like to have and defend such poor game design.

 

So you would rather have a single version of a loco which gets constantly updated and once they make a mistake you cannot play any service with this loco on any route instead of different versions with just one being unplayable in this case?
What you call poor game design seems more like smart way to keep a loco playable to me. Not to mention that DTG still pushes out updates for most of the versions. Best example is the door system update for german rolling stock.

 

Yes I would rather have one entity that is worked on than multiple broken ones that never got updated and still be used by the game. Crazy, isn't it?

Don't think that each formula 1 car in a racing game have different development stages. Neither do ten different versions of the same airplane (of the same developer) exist in MS Flight Simulator.

Now you can think about the reasons why no other game developer chooses this kind of approach.

Your comment on updates of existing rolling stock makes me laugh, thank you. You can't be serious or don't care at all.

 

So all you are saying is "I have ignored all of your arguments", "I stay with my opinion" and "I make fun of your opinion because its the only way of creating the illusion that I have brought up any reasonable arguments".
Maybe try to actually find a game which does follow the same concept of dlcs and not just name random ones which are in no way similar to Train Sim World. Formula one games only need to build the tracks and this is not compareable to a TSW route being multiple times longer. I dont even need to start with MSFS being mostly generated by 3D Google Maps.
You are laughing about updates for existing rolling stock? I assume you think they dont exist but you really should try to take a look at the patch notes for once. Maybe then you will realize that the only one who you are laughing about is yourself.
For starters, why dont you name some "broken" locos with many variants?

 

The larger issue that you have locos with only one variant that are left to rot in an unplayable state.

Br112
Br114
Br187

 

so on default for new routes you will only have those layers active that come with the routes? and if you want all layers like now, you will have to turn it on in options?