Back in TSC,one of the best german routes was Im Köblitzer Bergland. It had great assets, a huge variety of tracks (being comparable to Frankfurt S-Bahn in TSW, but bigger!), interesting scenarios and an amazing length. The only problem: It was fictional. At least this is probably what some people might think. The more hardcore German community (those from the rail-sin forum) seem to not mind the lack of a realistic geographical location (aside from Germany as a set country) and made a lot of content for this map, aswell es maps/ep's using IKB's assets. This let to a fictional route being one of the most popular german routes in TSC. Now, what I ask myself is: Would something like a fictional route work in TSW? Obviously, as they sold in TSC, there would probably be people willing to buy a route like this. But TSW's problem with long routes and high scenery quality causing problems to FPS would hinder creators from going full master-detail overwhelm mode and probably not making them stand out as much from real routes. Also, the topic of using assets from fictional routes isn't as big as in TSC as mapmakers aren't as established as they were in TSC when IKB came out, and we already have gorgeus assets from newer DTG releases, Just Trains and TSG. I personally think that fictional routes need to have a little extra to sell well compared to real routes. I woudn't want to buy a route that is entirely fiction (like the christmas DLC for TSW). For me it needs a real geographical area, and be realistic enough to plausibly say: "This could exist in real life" (Or be set in an already established fictional universe where trains take an important role would be enough for me too(depending on the universe ofc.)). They need to have a good length, big variety, a packed timetable or awesome scenery for me to consider buying it. A benefit of a fictional route would be the possibility of interesting rolling stock. A train that just ran on an ultra specific route from somewhere to somewhere that has really interesting things about it? Could be included in a fictional route! I also want to adress fictional licenses. On a route set in a ficional universe, I would definetly need to see stuff from it. Be it authentic ads, "real" l companies from there. It needs to be included for me to even consider picking up something so fictional. A route set in a real contry/region? It would be ok from me to include a logo from the region on the train or similar, even include a fictional operator, but please let real live operators be in the focus of it! Feel free to leave your opinion on fictional routes on this thread P.s.: I just realised you cannot put polls in off-topic (at least I can't find it in the usual spot)...
OK so this one is actually rather intresting to me; On one hand, I'd definetly rather there not be the resources on a fictional route that could be used on recreating a requested real life route - and definetly would rather real life be prioritised above all else. That being said; On the other hand - I think that if there was somehow designated lore behind a fictional area, like mentioned if it had like a history with news shared through directs over the span of a few months - or even randomly on the website to further build realistic lore for an area, alongside a plausible landscape - I actually think it could be an incredibly intresting concept. That's all I have to add on it; If it was done well with really good expansive lore prior to release, or even after just as a side project - absolutely Obviously though - this isn't a triple AAA roleplaying game, it's a train simulator, as much as we can dream I doubt DTG or any third-party would put that much effort into making it that good. That's just my two pence though, sorry.
It would need to accurately recreate some kind of well known fictional setting and the trains of that setting to interest me. Sodor definitely a must-buy for me. I'd probably also pick up a lovingly crafted Snowpiercer if it effectively recreated the exteriors and interiors from the TV show. I'm not really interested in anything invented purely for this game, because then it's not really simulating anything specific, is it?
Definitely not. I like seeing real places that I can look up information about or that I've been to in real life. Not against fictional routes, but wouldn't buy one.
It would really depend on the quality and my interest level. Back in the day Europeanbahn had Pageants Field for MSTS that was a pretty cool concept and a fun route to play with. https://excalibur-games.com/products/pageants-field The LT Heritage collection for TSC is kind of neat in concept as well, plus, y'know, red Pannier... lol https://store.steampowered.com/app/562375/Train_Simulator_London_Transport_Heritage_Collection/
Depends on what it represents & what it brings to me as a player in terms of scenery, gameplay & stock.
Depends on Length, Motive Power, and overall country. Something similar to Mardonshire by Just Trains may lean me over to purchase it.
Probably not. I have some fictional routes for TSC, but it is extremely hard to create a fictional route, because you need to create history and a feel of realism. I don't mind having a route that is not 100% realistic. It is OK to leave f.i. a yard that is long gone, or change the signalling a bit or use imagination to add service that do not exist. In general I prefer historic routes from a long past, preferably steam. Of course this requires more imagination because it may not be fully documented.
I wouldn’t want it at the expense of a real route, maybe once we get more regions done in TSW. Until then there’s still too much lacking across all 3 main countries & then others which have been one hit wonders deserve more routes too. Outside of TSW, I don’t mind fictional/semi fictional maps. I think the downside to them though is how much work is needed to make them feel good, often when developers make fictional locations they really do feel pretend, it’s rare you get one where it does feel like it could be a real place & the benefit to that is you can add in more fun. The route you mentioned is a good example of one done well, whereas there was a somewhat popular UK map (I forget the name - it was basically all high level track & entirely ran by Voyagers though a valley) & it felt like someone combined TSC with a base Cities Skylines map. It was just so uninspired. I think with the core issues TSW have it would just be more work than doing a replica of a real route.
Completely agree with all that, the amount of thought needed to actually design even one game level from scratch is something. Even a Mario level can take a lot of effort, trust me, I've done levels to their standard in Mario Maker. And while I found the end result very rewarding you understand why most people ain't cut out for that. I've spend probably 20 hours of effort just to make a single level you can complete in three to five minutes. All just because I wanted to make something quality that couldn't be cheesed super easily, nor filled with tons of infuriating level design. Now factor in that I made my levels with off the shelf parts, and I didn't have to program and do artwork for my own enemies and level gimmicks. Also it isn't like you're trying to think of actual lore and story for your Mario Maker level, that further complicates things. Then just to top it off translate that to the scale of something like Cyberpunk, think about how much actual thought that actually takes. You understand real quickly why a game like that takes five years and 500 people to make. People so often with sims act like copying real life in exacting detail's the hardest thing. And granted, not saying for a second it's easy, but I've see people act like snobs in various sim forums from time to time about fiction and how their stuff takes actual effort. But what they forget is the advantages of not having to strictly follow reality are offset by the fact you have to make your own reality, and that's not nessicarily easier, it's just different.
Ask me 2 months ago and I'd have said no. Ask me after I rediscovered Real Racing 3, and remembered that one of the best tracks there (Melbourne) is fictional, and I'd say maybe, but the standard is much higher. Kassel-Wurzburg wouldn't have been anywhere near as appealing as it was if it was a fictional route.
I wouldn't buy one, though there wouldn't be objection if someone propped up a freeware one in the editor (If that is even possible) There is a reason Adriana County is one of the favorites of US freight routes on TSC.
I’m on the fence. One of my little foibles in Trainz is taking track plans of model and (rideable) miniature railways and scaling up to full size. There’s also maybe a case for taking prototype railways from elsewhere but building them to a UK or German style. That would be one way round the geopolitical constraints, particularly when it comes to payware content. There’s a fascinating line in Iran which has loops and spirals through the mountains a Swiss railway would be proud of. But it’s not a part of the world any right minded person would travel to, let alone get access for research of the railway system. Down that road, Evin Prison and probably a noose awaits! In TSC, I did two routes based on a similar ethos. The old Sulitjelma line from Northern Norway which was a narrow gauge route through the most spectacular scenery imaginable but built as hybrid UK and German style. Then there was my dabble with the famous Zig Zag Railway in New South Wales and the following main line around Lithgow. Again, built in a UK style. I was quite happy with both of those.
I have Valley Corridor, Marsonshire, Totham routes for TSC and I quite liked playing on them, so yes, I'd probably also buy fictional routes for TSW.
I've bought fictional routes but end up never playing them so I'd be against any of the route builders for TSW building a fictional route when there are so many real routes that would be far better. Simulation for me means a believable take on reality. I'm not a train driver or a football manager but if I was, then this simulation is what it would be like.
definetly not. its called simulation for a reason and we’re not kids anymore playing in a dream world. I wanted to buy a good bus sim on ps5 but there are only fictional routes but the graphics are much better than tsw (because they use UE5!!!) but I didnt bought it because its fictional. I don't get it, cities are not copyright, even if you look at TramSim which was from dtg I think, its in Munich and all the brands like shell gas stations, McDonalds, rewe are all implemented for the whole city! This is nice but not even necessary, a real city is enough in first place. no copyright so just because of this fact I wouldn't buy it for the laziness of the developers
I say yes and feel there is a slot in the market for such projects or end products. Now I make mostly fictional liveries even if they’re not as popular next to real work TOCS. I love to be creative and by choosing a fictitious theme for my work allows me to enjoy the game and my passion more. I see it as play the game all serious like a pro or relax have fun and enjoy taking what’s possible further. It leaves TSW for those seeking the real work and then the ideas of fictional routes could give those wanting to create something fictional just for fun. Nothing more nothing less. Would people buy fictional work. Well in GTA they do or fictional brands. Many apps do the same and they sell. So yes I’d say there is a gap. One I chose to take because it offers something others don’t. Look at Roblox as an example too. A unique IP or selling point that could lead to many other people with ideas taking the advantage of doing fictional content or events further. Look on CC and see how many normal routes and liveries. Yet no one’s is looking at the possibility of doing fictional content. We see What if’ yet what about seeing a direct high speed link route which would allow those dealing with locomotive models to contribute their skills and expertise. Seeing classes of trains we might never see on route we might never use. A new experience for those looking for that, but can’t find it so again I feel there is a gap yet to be filled. If that doesn’t sound like a good idea for a fun project then I think nothing fun will ever get done just because of money. Or Build it anyway and see who comes along for the ride. These are all fictional work. Why for those wanting to create something different like scenarios for YT which would stand out because well it’s different, fun and interesting. How many times can one see the same livery over and over and still get excited. I feel fictional work if done right can work. Fictitious work is fun interesting even an escap, or fiction books and films wouldn’t sell. To say no to fictitious works is madness to me because in a way driving a train or a simulator is creating a fictitious situation where a user drives a train. There not it’s a simulator creating a fictitious way to enjoy what some can only dream of doing. Each time we drive a train on TSW or any other title etc is all living in a made up world for that time playing. Role playing pretending to drive trains yet in the real world couldn’t do it for real. The difference between reality and non reality, facts over fiction. Ones made up, ones not. Fiction sells or we wouldn’t be buying TSW or adore a locomotive with a FACE called Thomas that lives in on the FICTIONAL land of SODOR. For those that doubt if a fictional route would work then look at what has been successful and the one example above that is again all made up by the Rev. W. Awdry. Fictional work. That’s my opinion anyway. ✌
Damn Lee, that Large Logo Western is looking very snazzy if I shall say myself, aswell as the Brighton Belle Electrostar
Cheers Tom. I thought I’d add them not to flex but to show if done correctly ie has a real world feel or look then I do feel people would like to see that mixture. You hear so many stories of people wanting to see certain traction on TSW and don’t get it. So if things all went to plan those with R200 those art sets was going into include many iconic locomotives from the past for display mostly. To even keep it in the real world somewhat I have every single piece of information so again it has some references of the real world. Ie build numbers conversations you name it even service data or steam tractions depot reports. It’s why I wanted a planner or someone loves compiling data so any fictional work on a unit would seem feasible because it’s still working within the TOPS. Like creating a completely new identity or replacing most used TOC’s with different fictional ones. All for fun and for the hell of it. Play with what’s possible the same as sitting down and playing TSW which is still a game no matter how real it looks. It’s a simulator so why not simulate something that may never be. It’s all for fun because who said to stop having fun. I didn’t get the memo did you? Give something fictional a sense of real world history or purpose and I believe a completely different world could be made to one’s own taste. Fantasy then. Trains from films etc it’s about seeing what could be done. ✌.
I dont think so, unless... those are really well made TRAINING routes, made for players to: a) learn safety systems b) practise safety systems what I'm saying is that the Training Center itself is just bare bones basics, and if there was a route to hone our skills besides actual routes
There are a number of fictional routes already in TSW. They sold alright. To be fair, you could argue that fictional routes (original ones) could be quite a bit less work and hassle since you don't have to fight over who is interpreting what as "accurate." ("Is that house close enough? It's not the right shade of blue. I know because I live 3 miles away and pass there all the time!" With a fictional route it's whatever you WANT it to look like and you don't have to do "site recon" or get approval for licensing. You also don't have to pay branding fees or protect IP (like Thomas) I'm not saying it's better or worse, just different for different players. For the developer, it would open up some new creative avenues and potentially reduce workload/costs so you could offer them cheaper than the "real" DLC. You could also entirely make a "real" (fake) country and populate it to your heart's content (like Sodor in the Thomas series) with whatever you want, lines link up wherever you want, and tell a story or play around with tech and storytelling. It's a much different experience than copying real life. As I said it's not "better" just different. Derail valley and Railroads Online maps are fictional but based on real world inspiration. As such, nothing is "wrong" there as long as it fits the in-game setting. If your fictional country has steam, diesel, OHLE, third rail and narrow gauge lines.... so be it! The best part is that if you don't like it... don't buy them. Stick to the "real" routes. The two don't have to impact on the other at all (although you could "Free Roam" between then if you want)
I agree and why I’m sharing this. The name was chosen before any release or naming for 66 710 or 66 719. Blend DTG with AWC. Could the two work together as A, revamped training centre, B, a promotional tool for recruitment/ early training information need for users really wanting to take driving as a profession later on. The training centre could give a user modules to pass or challenges of real world situations. Each module passed would place them online. There a score would be counted at the end of the year or in line with the end of TSW6 and release of TSW7. New training seasons. There could be little decals up for grabs by passing each module, with the end season winner able to go drive a real train with AWC training teams. It’s linking game to real world. Anything goes it all depends on how far the mind can go and how much resources could be spent on something like that. A move away from this world then I think like this. A dystopian world or worlds. Each world has a different species and civilisations. Different modes of rail transportation. I was thinking of adding a slight open world feel to it too even a theme as the player is not human and is Ai, Ai took over the world and humans are rare. So your job as Ai would be to track humans. You do this by checking for clues after you finish a train service. Just a thought tho for additional content to a train game. So back to the dystopian world. The game would be levels. Working up to find work more difficult worlds. Some worlds that are bases for living and other worlds for industry. Or passenger trains and then freight. A simple idea that has the potential for artists, programmers, designers, storyboards or game writers to create. Because any idea can only become something with the minds or eyes of fantasy or science fiction. Fictional work gives so many opportunities for imagination to explore different kinds of experiences. And no one can argue that fact. We wouldn’t have games or TV films nothing if the imagination wasn’t able to be free to produce what we see today. Ie that horrid games show where people fight to live, on Netflix, massive programme yet is all fictional. Yes I can understand having real world fictional routes might be hard to digest for some people, I get that. Putting it in a completely different world or community of fantasy or science fiction is where an idea of such nature would live. A place where visual artists can let their minds run free, because anything is possible. There’s no limit and why blending trains with a new theme or as just a dystopian feel gaming experience driving different trains. The opportunity is there for people to create and those to enjoy So yes you raise a good point on areas that could benefit from some improvement or imagination. But with all that being said who’s going to train someone on a game to drive trains so easy or accessible. The way the world is today nothing can be ruled out on grounds of passenger safety and security or rolling stock. Such as the story of man with mental health issues turned down by a US rail operator, yet staff wishing to have days off gave this man their duties. Yes an unqualified unemployed member of society was doing full shifts and no one knew. And why I tend to stray towards fictional work because you could have a start up procedure for a nuclear train, or meg lev technology. You don’t find many of those hanging around, well in the UK anyway. USA toyed around but as per Russia had more insane plans for there super trains. Like cities on rails ✌
Perfectly said. I know DTG have set up this Play Lab to find a new IP or future game. Cost is a major concern for any company, yet with those who are open or willing to step in a completely different direction with fictitious themed train ideas could that not be an option or avenue DTG would be willing to take, even set up a small independent company to investigate at low cost to them. I even passed the idea onto a main DTG member and a company or livery was born. The idea or concept was for DTG have its own train company for their own way of raising money. (Charity is at the heart of what the person mentioned does). Being free from any restrictions from at that would allow greater freedom and most of all fun. You clearly explained this. DTG must have so many dealings with companies that what can and can’t be done could and would restrict DTG. Delays set backs due to the amount of time dealing with contracts/licence agreements. Away from all that there are community members or other people who have great interest in TSW. And if not directly involved with TSW franchises where would a world of fiction take TSW users or NEW users to DTG products. For if DTG can build what’s been, then why not create what’s not been built yet. Two forms of user demographics, Two markets. Or 3. Center TSW, console/ TSC, PC in the one market. Then either side of that drop to children based themes, the other side move it up to a different theme world which would make it 3 markets. Kids, markets. Teens/mid age (TSW). And for the more mature players TSC/ Fiction, Fantasy etc games. Backing up your comments about the world of Sodor then with Mattel being the owners I’m sure the fees are high. But it’s still a fictional land. Just like the one in a game called GTA. That’s a fictional city’s based of real ones yet still it’s all fictional and that sell pretty okay I’d say. Clearly there’s a massive markets in the simulator business and one DTG firmly has it fingers in, yet for some other aspects of gaming or more main stream gaming hits not so much. Then would it be fair to say with DTG having only a few gaming titles would benefit from creating something away from heavy licensing fees and spending less time researching. Less time out researching the more could be done on a fun game. Why I feel a two year gap between TSW releases may allow DTG to fill some gaps in the market. Fun’s games to fill the TSW two year gap while bringing new revenue in or customers to TSW. As people may not like me for saying this but trains in general has always had a stigma to it. I know I got bullied for liking anything other than foozball. So in the console gaming market how does TSW even compete with most younger generations opting for games like Fortnite, GTA, FC26, Battlefield 6, and even Microsoft flight simulator 2024 coming into the mix for likes of players on consoles looking for any good simulation game. How is DTG competing against such massive titles, and the revenue generated from what are free. They make billions from fictional suits and characters. So yes there is money to be made and yes DTG might have a good customer base but as already pointed out, it will get harder to keep or find newer customers if sat in one market. Ya gotta keep it fresh or slow fade away from the eye then the mind. To move with the times or be prepared to be forgotten. With fiction it’s cheaper and anything is possible. ✌.
To back up fictional work, plus also for me to find out more on how you the community feel about doing such things. But I see it as this, DTG work hard to replicate these routes and locomotives. There is the hardcore fans or enthusiasts whom which have great respect for the past and what’s now preserved. I’ve known this from the very start, yet chose this option based on personal issues and a creative bases. Worrying about copy right etc and why I make up my own company brands too. To this day and as you will see I still enjoy creating a livery for if that locomotive was still around today. Non ever got scrapped. The Whizzos. 52 002 lives on. It’s a real locomotive that could be scrapped I’d have to check my lists, but with a back story then they could’ve been bought and then owned by HOOKHAUL group. But I try not take this approach. I created the non official Train Sim World Preservation Group. Here each class of locomotive lives on and would be handed out to community members that joined the TSW Preservation Group. They own or are responsible for that batch or class of locomotives they wish to take. So under that system or brand title that tale of all classes never being scrapped could exist and so again fictitious ownership could be taken. Ie let’s say under that system I now own 52 001 and 52 001 or say batch 001 to batch 005. Users could even swap as ownership made finding what you want hard if already owned. User can choose if still available. Depending on the batch sizes of how many 47s where built then more can be owned where smaller real world numbers produced will be limited depending on how many members at that time. These are all steps in creating a unique universal system and experience to actually say a loco is under your ownership if only fictitious. Does it not sound fun?, if not how could the idea grow if seen as something of interest or being part of an actual group that like to preserve their past. They may be a few issues but as long as anything relevant to the TSW Preservation Group stands as the owners intend. Fictional owners that is. Yet used can still user what they like outside of that brand. Ie use as you normal would away from the group then I’d see no problem or reason as not to have fun with this approach to ownership or fleet management on TSW. The whole point of the TSW Preservation Group is to allow people with high standards and interest in ownership and presentation of owned units that entitlement those within the group to track and manage a fleet that would not normally operate today. It’s all made up and all fictitious, but I feel it’s something fun and again helps retain control over preserving locomotives that are long gone back to paint shop new as tho they lived today under one’s own ownership of a choose locomotive. Could even write how the locomotives where used then discarded before being rescued then restored. A back story that again is all fictional but allows those with that information or interest to have fun with it all. Because like I mentioned at the beginning DTG have provided the model of locomotives that are now long gone but yet we use them. Why not allow them to live on and in different types of livery with a nod to the past tastefully done. Hopefully even tho a western was never seen dressed like this I feel visually it’s appealing if real or not. It’s nice to see something alive again, clean in working order. Not dead or forgotten rusting away sat in storage. A fictional world can bring them all back again. Why I choose that world because it’s better than the real one. I was told to have fun many moons ago and that is what I intend on doing by sharing this fictional way to do what’s been suggested with an Unofficial TSW Preservation Group. I’d also like to add that I’d be more than willing to hand any responsibility or control of fleet management or resources under the group title or one members feel appropriate for that person position. It’s a great opportunity for any individual or community member who has interests in fleet records or documentation. Essentially being responsible for most if not all BR rolling stock and is free to work how they wish in controlling such high amounts of data, including the fictional side of ownership built in. For again nothing has been scrapped and so what ever is available on TSW6 could be managed with existing records available. All taken out of BR ownership and given to the Unofficial TSW preservation groups members, so start with the small batch of 74 class 52 as the example. Members can discuss their new property or how some of these historical locomotive would have actually looked. So again a good way for users to learn while working on fictional objects that are no longer here. Finding out a history of locomotive and relive it with a locomotive ending on the scrap heap. They didn’t and members of the Unofficial TSW Preservation Group managed to win ownership and are now free for the taking. So keeping in line with the main subject matter, displaying fictional liveries in the context I’ve placed them in kinda works. If that works then how many past lines could be returned? Long gone but brought back to life just for prosperity rather than profits. I dare say DTG do have ambitions to bring most new or pre privatisation back, but DTG is a company and as much as I’ve droned on here today trying to make a valid case. Then yes making old routes fictional routes even sounds pretty but if the dollars don’t roll in or no user interest for such routes sadly it’s why we don’t get to see stuff we might like to see in TSW, be real or not. It’s all about the money and so old routes or fiction would be made at high risk low reward to an individual or small business. If 3rd party with DTG any small individual or business might stand a chance. Failing that then a company in its first years of operation can fail so finding a firm market or place in a shared environment as 3rd party is essential for success. If not then we see nothing, just hear of what’s possibly coming on road map but never shows. Could be for a number of reasons yet I don’t doubt for one minute if projected revenue growth or forecast making such routes are poor it will be struck from that road map before anyone blinks an eye. And to end my waffle I will say this people will buy old routes like now on TSW franchise and TSC, yet like I have found and pointed out in the areas where respecting the past and these locomotives history with adding a fictitious theme can be an issue for some traditionalist let’s say. But we can life in the past or bring that past with one to enjoy again as the same or in a totally new light. It’s all down to being open minded about these things. If not then decision are made and could say firmly stuck too. No one can change that, yet anyone a posed to fictional work or worlds can’t change that either. Agree to disagree and go there separate ways. Some stay still where some may find others that see and so willing to take the risk to see a dream come true, Dreams are not dreams just opportunity taken at high risk, some come true some don’t, but we all have a dream. Some act, some stay, and we will never know if a dream will pay if we remain still. And we might never know if a dream pays that’s the price of risk only the brave ones take. Believing in yourself and your product when all others laugh. Knowing when your onto something good and when your not will determine if something sells. Find a target market and exploit everything you can. A product will always sell if it sees a trend or feels it has something that will set a trend. Be real or fictional the markets are always shifting and so one must always stay head if not to be left behind. That means something new and exciting and so in the real world DTG are limited on what TOCs do or provide. Nothing fun for DTG, nothing exciting for players, old or new. DTG are always gonna have their hands tied in one way in what TOCs allow DTG access or rights too. Will that hinder future development of newer products based on real world applications or will DTG mix things up a little by testing something different now before scratching their heads later on if access becomes an issue with anything planned. Such as the late withdrawal of LNWR Branding with TSW5 class 350, and regardless of which company at fault still looks bad on DTG. So yes I must apologise for my long waffle or silly rant. It’s a very interesting topic which I’m quite passionate about. It’s spilling over a little and so I will say tat tar folks. ✌.
