All Aboard Studios Route- Crewe To Birmingham New Street.

Too much money for a route with no new trains? Or too imitative?

Same reaction from the same people. Apparently no-one is allowed a different opinion from theirs. This route is the second coming . No question, no difference of opinion allowed.

" How can you not be excited for such a route like this ? "

Because I've seen it a number of times already.

 

To the contrary, people are just expressing their opinions, or countering others opinions. There is no right or wrong answer. Everything that I say, you say, and anyone else says is completely subjective.

I respect your opinions, but I disagree and counteract them with my own perspective. My opinion and your opinion hold exactly the same relevance. There is no right or wrong answer.

I see this route and I like it very much, you see the route and don't like it very much. I respect that but I disagree.

I enjoy having a bit of back and forth debating on the forum and I also enjoy getting different perspectives from others. It's nothing personal and I'm sure you're a lovely chap in real life. It's okay to disagree with others aslong as it is polite and civil.

 

Again, there is new trains. Just different Sub Classes which have different Specs and interiors.
But I will stop there. Go and keep playing your BR stuff as you rather clearly support JT as they are more BR.
Welcome to the Modern World where everything is greener these days. And AAS Clearly stated they are focused on Modern Day routes.

 

The 350s cabview isn't great for showcasing a route, I agree. I wish there was a feature where you can move the cab view to have a wider view of the track ahead, i.e closer to the windscreen. Maybe I should invest in a head tracker.

 

I remember the preview streams for TSW2 and Matt always turning on the non-driver side light in the 72 stock and saying it was for atmosphere. It was only after I started driving the Bakerloo line myself that I realized the real reason - since they didn't put any light sources on the gauge needles, and the gauge lighting itself is so weak, they're completely invisible in the tunnels. In real life, the needles have a phosphorescent glow to them so you can see them and the gauge lighting is such that you can read the numbers.

I thought it was a bit disingenuous of Matt and it came to mind when watching him turning on the fog each run he did on this route. Not saying there's a parallel, but it is curious. Reminds me of an old joke between two Canadian provinces - Alberta and Saskatchewan. One person from each province are in a car together driving through Saskatchewan, and the one from Alberta compliments him on all the 'Bump' and 'Pothole' signs showing road hazards. They guy from Saskatchewan is pleased by this and asks what they do in Alberta.

"Us? We just fix 'em."

'72 stock gauge lights still not working all these years later.

 

There is a zoom feature, at least on PC, but it doesn't really expand the view much and it eliminates the cab controls, some of which need mouse input.

 

Route could potentially be a really good run with the 86/87 although it missing neutral sections is a bit of a bummer. I don't understand why these core features of the game seem to be so hit and miss with implementation. Are they hard to set up and if so shouldn't DTG look into simplifying how they work so we can get things as standard (like they're supposedly meant to be)? Same thing with tunnel reverb, suspension, train fault and whatever else. I'm speaking broadly here because I know some of these things are included in this route.

Either way, I do think this looks good, especially lineside detail. I don't see the lack of new stock as an issue seeing as the route basically contains the majority the stock from its represented era, not particularly clambering for an Aventra. I can understand why people would prefer a different era, but we are still getting another JT WCML route later. I'd personally love some more routes set around the late 90's early 2000's because then you'd get the most stock variety with old and newish, but it's not a sticking point for me.

 

One thing I have to say is Neutral sections not working.
It just breaks the immersion a tiny bit.

 

I did think it was a bit of a poor excuse for not including neutral sections TBH

 

To be fair, is lack of rolling stock an issue for this route given that the 390 and 350 are the bulk of the traffic? The 323 and 170 cover WMR and other layers are there too. The only thing really I think this route is missing out with would be the loop through Stoke, but I can happily live without it (in hope that a Stafford - Manchester route comes, perhaps)

The 730 would feel wasted on this route, and I don't really see any other candidates for a new train.

 

I stick the 3 camera to the front of the cab. MSTS used to have a camera (Shift-F2? It's been a while!) that made the cab invisible. I don't know if it's still there in TSC.

 

As a matter of interest what was the excuse / reason for not including neutral sections? I don't see any mention of adding them in a future patch either. Another ship spoiled for a ha'porth of tar!
Won't be buying this at full price now, maybe in a sale at decent discount.

 

Didn't realize neutral sections was such a big deal to people

 

https://www.youtube.com/live/IEHCKzXmSP8?si=qe3fYGoLUh2UsOiZ

"Most of the trains in TSW are not compatible with neutral sections, so we didn't include them."

Question was asked at time stamp: 2:08:50

Basically a polite way of saying zero F's given.

 

Thanks. A pretty feeble excuse and shows how shoddy some of the modelling of British AC traction has been if correct.

 

Yeah, basically DTG hadn't bothered to add neutral section functions to the trains so they didn't bother to add them to the route.

Not sure why they couldn't have added them to the trains as well as the route, considering they're adding lots of other things to the 350 that DTG didn't bother to do.

 

You notice it on MAC where they are included that only the Class 87 railtours do it properly. It's strange as I have seen them work more consistently on other routes. Liam managed to get them to mostly work in a basic way on WCMLS including on the Class 350.

 

It is for me because it means you have to be extra vigilant which means more immersion when driving an electric loco/unit.

I notice they did have the signs for neutral sections, so I will just have to pretend they are active

 

That's what I normally do on other routes

 

So the reason neutral sections aren’t working is because DTG didn’t implement it in like the 390 and 350? I swear 350 has it implemented and you do have to put it in neutral? 390 is a bit more simple. I will ask my mate who drives them IRL

 

Neutral sections add to the immersion and if this is a simulation rather than a train game then they should be functional. That said, for the UK at least the effect of powering a modern train through a neutral section is not too calamitous but for those of us wanting to run the 86 or 87 it removes part of the experience.

Watched the first half hour or so of the stream earlier and no doubt this looks a well made route which has had plenty of love poured into it. Did have my behind wiggling on the fence a bit but still probably going to wait and see or for a sale. Ultimately, as said, it’s another interurban electric route of which we already have several in game. Network Rail don’t help as their policy of maintaining (or rather not maintaining) lineside foliage means modern route builders can basically set the route in a linear forest and get away with it. Even between Birmingham and Wolverhampton there were stretches just passing through the avenue of trees. Yes, that’s a reflection on real life but it doesn’t make for such an interesting drive.

Then there’s still the timing (and pricing) issue. Most of us have still only scratched the surface of the three new routes and additional trains which came with TSW6. Not to mention having to pause playing due to the botched patches. Now was really not the time to churn out another route so soon after depleting the Steam funds on the big purchase.

One thing I have relented on though is the fog on the demo, it didn’t obscure as much as I thought it would. However the route was very stuttery on Matt’s mega PC and assuming this is not the first time he drove it, can’t really blame that on shaders compiling. So definitely worth waiting to see how it performs out in the world, as it were.

 

Got a reply from my mate who drives these trains.
Here is the Procedure if it was implemented.

Shut off power and coast through neutrals. If you have power on there's a chance of causing damage to the transformers on the train.
However there are built in suppressor units on Pendos to prevent damage, if you forget to shut off power.

Shame DTG never implemented neutral sections in the 390. Silly really.

 

They were literally modding the 350 to have loads of stuff the WCMLS one doesn't so surely a neutral section functionality isn't that much of a stretch??

 

That's exactly what I was thinking. Sure, they can't do anything about the 390 not having the feature implemented, but as they've modified the 350 for this route...

 

Neutral sections add to both gameplay and immersion. It gives you an extra thing to think about when driving electric traction and it increases realism. This has been a feature in TSC for a long time and it's a shame there are still routes being shipped without the feature in 2025.

 

To answer neutral sections not being implemented on Birmingham to Crewe, the answer on the stream whilst true, we could of gone a bit deeper with. From a train side, theres no actual documentation as to implement this or at least I haven't seen it so I didnt add it to the train, I normally look at other DTG trains for how things work and well as mentioned DTG haven't put it on other trains so I have nothing to look at. Nor do I want to go poking at say the 87 without getting permission from JT first. It is something we are wanting to look at for potential future DLC though so we will see

 

Fair enough Kezz, as always appreciate your honest answers. We appreciate this transparency so thank you.

 

Looks like the 170/323's will be the busiest part of the route - and the better windows. Hopefully a few streamers will look at those over the weekend.
Of course, the 350 had the most preview time, to showcase the announcements.
Don't think there was any 'technical' reason for the fog - just a bit of atmosphere/immersion.

 

This should be regarded as a hint that the next DLC is already in development, I presume

 

Thanks for the explanation but it appears that DTG themselves might not know how to implement neutral sections on routes or locos and units and it's been left to JT to fathom it out for themselves. Otherwise I can't understand why DTG haven't let 3rd party devs into the secret and insisted that all appropriate DLC they publish have that feature.

 

Didn't Scotrail Express have neutral sections or am I imagining it?

 

Yes, on the EG route.

 

One slightly pedantic observation...

When the auto announcer states the BT Police text number it should be "zero" as in the number not "oh" in the letter. Getting those confused pretty much a stoning offence when it comes to safety critical voice comms on the railway. I'm also a little bit surprised that BTP agreed to the real number (which I'm fairly certain it is) being used in a game or were they even asked?!

 

It did but I think there were issues with it, and it could have been an issue with the train or the route, I can’t remember.

DTG have done neutral sections on several German routes with no issues but there’s no automatic switching magnets with them like JT’s implementation in their route so it might be more simple to just put the signs up and a gap in the wire. It is also intermittent implementation with some routes getting it and others not. It’s not a standard feature yet and seems to be random.

 

it is said as “oh” in the real announcements and let’s face it most of the population say phone numbers that way.

I disagree with you about using the real number too, surely BTP would be happy to be getting the publicity and would have insisted on the real number being used.

 

and let's be honest...who doesn't know that telephone number (unless you're one of those people who hasn't travelled on a train for umpteen years!)

 

I will listen out next time I'm on board a train, but it is a common mistake amongst those not familiar with the phonetic alphabet or untrained in safety comms. If we ever get to the point in TSW where we are talking to a signaller or an AI generated message is responding then they will need to get it right then. 0 is a number, O is a letter...

As regards BTP well hopefully they are on board with this. However there have been instances in the past where DTG failed to blank out or fictionalise the real railway numbers for Maintenance Controllers etc. (internal and BT) on stickers in cabs with the worry that some bright spark might call them when the game isn't working properly.

 

Actually, Matt did say later in the stream that he hadn't had the time to do a full run, hence more stutters than usual. So in fact, yes, blame it on shaders compiling.

 

All BTP related content was ran through with DfT/BTP, there is an ammendmant that didnt make the build for the announcement which is being fixed by DTG currently

 

As far as I recall they always say 'six one oh one six'. I guess for mobiles I sometimes say 'zero seven' and sometimes 'oh seven', so either works in practice - but 'oh' is certainly prototypical for the BTP announcement. I believe there was some announcement from the government about a new BTP announcement coming out, but not heard it myself yet.

 

my number has a 0 in the middle and for some reason I always say “oh seven” and then use “zero” for the number in the middle! I’ll blame it on us Brits loving to mix imperial and metric!

 

It's a fun game to play when someone asks for your phone number and repeats it back to you. I mix the "ohs" and "zeros" up and it is invariably repeated back to you exactly as you said it. I think it's human muscle memory at work, concentration is on getting it right "as heard" by repeating what is said rather than what is correct.

 

I never say any phone number as zero blah blah blah. Always "oh"

 

+1 for working neutral sections.
As others have said, it's absolutely part of the driver experience and we're at TSW6 (technically v7 including CSX-HH), so no excuses for not having implemented them universally at this point. They should also be visible on the Track Monitor, and to be fair Matt did say in a recent stream that it is their intention to add them to the TM at some point. It is also JT's wish that they be visible, expressed by Tom if I recall during a cl86 JT stream.

 

Agree here. In TSW 6 now, To Maximise customer satisfaction things shouldn’t be left out.

 

on WCML South the neutral sections are marked but inactive.....

 

More gameplay footage coming tomorrow morning from TinTin_57 fyi. Probably other creators will be able to get something out too. Should help a few of those fence sitters to see which way they fall

 

I saw the richy rail conversation with the team on YouTube and must say especially when they talked about plans for future and must say very excited

 

They work in a basic way on the slow lines when doing runs in the Class 350. I haven't tried since TSW6 was launched though.

 

I haven't noticed anything like that...... but maybe I just don't see it.