Today’s been a bumpy release, which has left many of us annoyed, but putting aside those issues and what we’ve got for ourselves is a brilliant route. I already think that the scenery and modelling is some of the best ever in tsw, the amount of detail is stunning. What’s also important to me is how alive a route feels, and this one has nailed it. Lots of traffic, people everywhere, it’s got what so many routes are missing. Yet another third party setting the bar high, once the issues are sorted out I’m confident this will become one of the best tsw routes ever. Superb work by everyone involved.
Blame DTG for that one, not All Aboard. AAS in this case deserve all of OP's praise, it isn't their fault the base game itself is flawed and their craftsmanship and skill is no less deserving of recognition.
Already do blame DTG but doesn’t deny that fact we shouldn’t praise something to its in a good condition for everyone
So if you bring me your car for some restoration work, I do an absolutely amazing job on repainting it but you still can't drive it yet because someone else hasn't finished working on the engine, does that mean I am undeserving of praise or recognition for my work?
Definitely agree with the OP, very solid attempt considering it's first route created for scratch. Yes it's had a troublesome birth, but it's going to age so slowly it will be forever a definite highpoint for the franchise......
It’s a solid start albeit with its issues which are mainly out of their control. I hope the guys don’t become too disheartened they seemed like nice guys from the stream.
Impressed with the level of detail having only walked a section of the route. Station interiors and exteriors are a welcome addition, as are the unique bridges and buildings along the southern urban section.. it certainly feels like Birmingham!
Two massive platforms (petty sure the console side is bigger than pc for this game) are stuck with the buggy version for now and we don’t even have the guaranteed it won’t still have problems like blurry textures (more of a core thing but still works here) and to add still quite a bit is missing from the route that’s coming in a post patch that could be days from now or multiple months that’s the issue I’m not saying they don’t deserve praise but at least wait to every thing is working
Did you paint the car knowing about these issues & let the customer pay, leaving them to find out later that the car won’t start? Stupid analogy by the way. The whole thing has stank since the preview. Fog used on the stream to mask the hitching, AAS themselves saying they weren’t aware of console issues & then the ambassadors being prevented from showing the route on console. Cherry on top was the wrong build being pushed. I don’t really care what proportion of the blame goes to who, frankly anyone from DTG or AAS could have bothered to give us a heads up, rather than try & hide the condition of their shared product.
It genuinely warms me when people who usually have conflicting points of view come together and actually agree for once! I've said my bits in other threads, so I won't bore anyone by consistently repeating myself. But, to keep it short, this is one superb route and of such a brilliant detail from the rolling stock to the scenary that it's simply phenomenal in my point of view... I'll probably get some slack from some corners of the community, but I'd go a far as saying this is like the jump from Hornby 'RailRoad' quality, to Hornby premium products, by setting a benchmark for scenary and attention to detail. It does have some minor issues (expected with any DLC) but that can be sorted from AAS, we are only on day 1 mind. A game changer for UK content I think... Any of the major frustrations I've got can be directly attributed to DTGs major core issues and them consistently making the right noises, but not actually following through on improvements that are having a major impact on DLC across the board regardless of the developer.
End of the day, especially for this game, the angry people are going to keep being angry, I truly think they can only be internally happy with Sharp stick at their side and a target to stab it into.....
Don't think All Aboard are directly responsible for this mess. at the end of the day, DTG are the publishers, and they are responsible for checking everythings ok for release (which has clearly not happened here) I mean, how many times have they published the wrong build again? Fourth time? Is it some sort of tradition? No way its a mistake, they've had 3 chances in the past to properly fix it?
The customer in this hypotetical knew the state of their engine, just as we the player knew the state of the core game. I am just a painter, the engine has no bearing on my work and frankly is not my problem. The same, I believe, applies for AAS and how the core game affects their product. They did their work and they did it well, it isn't their blame to bear for how DTG messed their product up with their faulty core game. Why should they, third party devs making their first foray into a new engine and toolset, be punished or discredited for the faults of another? Or is it your opinion that they should have never bothered in the first place? This however, I will agree with whole heartedly. It's one thing to have a faulty base game messing with the quality of a 3rd party product, it's another thing to blatantly and shamelessly lie about it. From what I've seen however AAS picked the services for the preview but it was Matt who selected the foggy weather conditions, and he seemed to quietly do it of his own initiative. Make of that what you will.
I think some of you are forgetting. The op here is 100% correct. Ignoring the issues, the route itself is built extremely well, with well detailed models and scenery, definitely on par with JT. They've actually put some passion and effort into this route and that Is something that should always be admired and credited in terms of development, building a first route is never easy, especially with something as busy as this.
The core game of course always comes into consideration, but then the core game doesn’t always have certain issues, or have them compound so badly. You can take routes such as FTF & say it’s bad for the texture issue, but it’s nowhere near as bad as what this one is doing. In some cases it’s completely distorting the 350. We haven’t seen texture issues this bad since Mildmay. The issues with timetable descriptions not matching up with spawn points is something we have seen before, but this is something the developer should absolutely be checking & testing. SPADs caused by AI again should be something that’s caught in testing. Now unless we’re saying AAS just put everything together, left it entirely to DTG to test & DTG published it without fixing, that leaves AAS in a position where they’ve failed to catch those issues. There’s also something to be said about it being a customers responsibility to ‘know how the core is’, obviously anyone playing TSW long enough does & should do, but that certainly doesn’t absolve any of the devs & publisher of continuing to sell this content in a deceitful manner. As I said, I couldn’t care less who this forum blames for it & whatever consequence that earns them. At the end of the day both DTG & AAS either knew these issues existed, or didn’t bother to check - the end result is both lied & deceived their way to a pay check & it’s frankly scummy behaviour. We can sit & glaze AAS and trick ourselves into thinking they’re the JT of the modern era, but even if this route does get turned around, the lying about consoles not having issues is something I personally wont be forgiving.
That's a bit of a harsh statement to make, I don't think AAS intentionally lied and deceived their own customers, I think AAS truly care and have passion for their products, with its evident scenery, timetable and models.
No they have a right to feel angry and frustrated as a customer. In fairness, it is a public forum, and they can express however they feel about a situation, and members of this forum have every right to challenge statements and prove their credibility, as long as it remains civil.
I am talking about the fact of claiming a company is 'lying & deceiving their way to a pay check' over their first TSW DLC. Are you saying that is okay in your eyes? Constructive criticism is something completely and utterly different..
If the blurry textures and the timetable timings can be sorted out, I can easily see this becoming one of my favourite routes
Not sure how those two things can be linked, hitching is the game loading in new assets. In any case, Matt has said in recent streams that he thinks adding a little fog lifts the lighting - personally I find it helps the lighting at night by adding a little haze for the lights to bounce off, not so sure about daytime though.
The route looks fantastic the detailing is amazing just a shame about the issues blurry textures and stuttering im experiencing them on xbox which i didnt have any on the riviera line that was released perfectly for me but sending out the wrong build its just crazy that shouldnt be happening its happened a few times now
I don’t think you actually read what I said. I clearly acknowledged that the route is pretty broken thanks to texture issues, but the rest of my thoughts are about the route; I’ve focused on the things AAS can control, and on that front they’ve smashed it out the park
Ai SPADs, more incorrect service names and it being broken afterwards, crashes that are pretty damn common, and the worst of them all the fact it’s not even a complete addon and you have to wait for stuff that should have been in the main release. There nothing stopping them from putting a slight delay to make this perfect just like what just trains did for west coast main line 1980s, they had a problem then they just pushed the release back a week and fixed it 90% of this is stuff they had control over
Hi there, so I know you have commented a few different things on this post but ill try and summarise in one reply. Firstly, we are actively working with DTG to see where things have gone wrong, all testing went through DTG, whilst we did do some of our own testing, we were quite a small team at the time so we relied on QA for this. Obviously some things have gone wrong, we had submitted fixes for crashes and so forth that didn't end up in the release build, something that is actively being looked into. In terms of where we are currently, we are working with DTG at the moment to co-ordinate comms around patches and so forth. We have every intention to make sure people have the best experience possible regardless of platform choice. We couldn't give a heads up on something that we simply were not aware of at the time and we have been as transparent as possible in regards to everything. The blame game does no one any good at the end of the day and all we ask is that we be given a chance to remedy the issues that people are facing. We actively have things going through testing for fixes at the moment and we now have our own internal QA team that are working around the clock with our dev team and myself/Dan to ensure that we get things out quickly and smoothly. Comms will come out soon so keep an eye out for that. In terms of the ambassador comments, Alex has clarified this on discord I believe already. Not a decision we had made. A general one, thanks to everyone for the positivity and we are glad people are enjoying the route and thanks to everyone that has provided constructive feedback, we are seeing it and are working to action things in a timely manner. Thanks all!
There are 522 total playable services waiting in timetable mode (and some 2,000 in all, including AI). Kezz is the above still true, it seems even YouTube streamers have only around 420 and also, the route is dead in terms of AI traffic, assuming the 2,000 services are not in this current build. Can you confirm please.
I have faith in your team and don't hold your team responsible for the build that was released on consoles. Look forward to the updates and still haven't changed my opinion that you've produced a phenomenal bit of content (PS5 myself).
I think you & I have different opinions on what ‘transparent’ means. Preventing ambassadors from showing the console versions & at the same time telling people you aren’t aware of console issues, issues that turned out existed in swathes, isn’t what I’d describe as being transparent. As for blaming, as I said above, I’m not bothered who gets the blame, I don’t really care for any blame to be placed at all - the fact is both your studio & DTG have done what you’ve done and that’s that. The point needs to be it gets fixed & these issues stop appearing on every content release. As for comms, they’re a joke. We have the comms I’ve laid out above pre-release, which was at best mis-information & at worst blatant lies. Jamie is in the feedback thread waffling about build numbers & confusing everyone, now currently trying to backtrack on that, saying it’s not a build issue but a patch being worked on. Then there’s other comms happening in completely separate spaces such as discord. Frankly the whole thing is a mess from start to finish & is genuinely laughable that no one involved in this release tested a version which half of your customers are expected to purchase.
He likes to stick smileys on the end of his responses to disguise the utter contempt and vitriol he is spewing.
Not disguising anything at all, sorry to disappoint you. Have some smileys to make up for it tho.....
I have praise for what AAS have created. It’s a fine route, no doubts there. It’s DTG that have let AAS down though, as thanks to them for not releasing a fully functional working build on the PS5 this has stopped me making a purchase to support AAS. I’m not spending £30 quid on something to be than told “we’ll fix it later” attitude. I think DTG should be hiring some new staff and form a new team, so that all future checks on launch dlc gets properly tested and giving the green light. DTG clearly knew they were releasing older builds, I just don’t know how stupid they must think their customer base is to think it’s perfectly acceptable.
It's definitely a very good route, New Street station is spot on for how it looks and the atmosphere.
I've had a couple of runs now and while it's definitely rough around the edges, it's still very enjoyable and nowhere near as awful as many on the forum are making it out to be. If the issues are fixed I'm confident it'll be one of the best routes in the game. I would like to know what's happened with the timetable/ layers, as pre release we were told there were over 500 playable services, however the actual number is around 100 less than that. A couple of very small issues I've had that I don't think have been mentioned before- firstly on the one Pendolino run I've had (southbound) first class was at the wrong end. Funnily enough this was in issue on WCML South when that released too. Secondly, on one Voyager service approaching Wolverhampton (from Birmingham) the TPWS applied the brakes when I was approaching the signal before the station. Granted it was at danger, but I was crawling up to it at 6mph and it was still around 100 yards away. Unfortunately I can't remember the exact service as I had to leave the game and forgot to save.
This is correct, there was a DLC requirement issue which may of triggered some AI not showing properly however this is with DTG now and they will update when the patch will be dropping. Hope this helps!
Again, we didn't prevent anything. However thanks for your thoughts on the matter, they have been noted
Just an update. Just started another 390 run and first class is the right way around this time. Might have just been unlucky that first time.
If one considers routes, trains/rolling stock and operations/schedules/formation separate, most routes by themselves pass the standard. Some are better done, feel more life-like, have more 'love' spent on them, while others are mere exercises in learning the tools. Are the included trains made by the route builders? Are the schedules, formations, and the whole operation aspects done by the route builders? Or is a ready-to-run route come deadline to be handed over the one of DTG's many 'teams' to get supplied with trains from their stocks? Then handed over to another 'team' to provide the operations parts, formations, schedules? And finally to the 'team' responsible for collectables, challenges and other gaming elements for that finishing touch the prevalent console market wants? I can hardly imagine any third party to be excellent in 3D modeling, texturing, scripting, audio engineering and whatever else is needed all by themselves?
That DTG have released it in a broken condition isn't AABS's fault, the route and sheer amount of layers is absolutely fantastic and the scenery and urban scenes are incredible.
Just explored the top station of Smethwick Galton Bridge the track is laid station is spot on as someone who often passes by on the Worcester to Birmingham line be great if we could have my local route in the game with the 172s maybe we could see it in the future as part of the track is laid
DTG will sometimes hand over models of their own for a 3rd party to modify, such as with the 350 here or the 47, 101, 08 ect for JT routes. Asides from that though, yes it is all 3rd party work. Its the reason ATS only included a modified pre existing loco in their Manchester route, because they wanted to learn route building first and loco stuff second. A little more speculative, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was also one of the reasons JT chose such a simple train as the 142 for their first route.
Just want to add, this is/will be a great route if the blurry textures can be fixed (I haven't yet had a crash on XSX) Minor niggles are station announcements missing out some destination names, no scheduled stop times which i thought were supposed to be fixed by the time of release and also having to randomly open and close passenger doors for some reason.
I played it yesterday for the first time. Had a crash approaching Crewe but, it’s hands down one of my favourite route I’ve come across. The slow cruise between Birmingham and Wolverhampton, which then starts to pick up after Wolverhampton to Stafford where you absolutely send it all the way to Crewe in an area full of twists and turns - I feel this route is a better advertisement for some of the qualities of the 390 then WCML south has ever been. Props to AAB studios, it’s a shame about the rocky start and the issues players are facing but, I honestly think they’ve smashed it out of the park in terms of the level of detail and the execution of the actual route.
The route looks good, there are some bugs, most will hopefully be resolved. Re some of the furious comments I've seen. I'm reminded of a coffee bar outside Liverpool Street station. I was queuing to get a bacon roll and the woman in front of me asked for a "skinny latte and don't put full fat milk in it. Are you listening? SKINNY latte!", I'd already decided that she was an extremely rude person but then she turned to me and said "They mess it up every day". To which I responded "Why don't you try somewhere else then?" This didn't go down well, she tutted at me and stormed off with her latte. If TSW content isn't up to the standard you expect and you have no confidence in developers and/or DTG and it's making you so angry that you have to be rude to complete strangers in a forum. Why do you keep coming back? Give it up. Get a different hobby, because hobbies are supposed to be fun.
Reminds me of when I was queuing in Greggs one time and just as I was about to walk up the till, some elderly lady barges to the front of the queue, demands to the poor employee "I want a warm sausage roll", and upon seeing the employee get one of the cabinet thing all the food is in demand "no I said a warm one"
I do agree to a certain extent. However... It's hard when one company has a virtual monopoly on something. Now that is not the case when it comes to coffee, but in terms of train sims, it is rather more so. Where else to get my train fix? Just look at one of the biggest games in the world, FIFA (EAFC). Widely loathed by so many players, but it is basically the only functioning football game out there with full licenses and so does rather well year on year!
I get where you're coming from but there are very limited options for train simulation on Xbox in which I can drive UK based routes. TSW is probably my favourite game and I enjoy playing it a lot. I don't criticize DTG because I hate them or TSW, I simply see the potential in what TSW could be, if they fixed the abysmal optimisation on consoles.
