Why Do Dtg Keep Telling Lies?

Exactly what I want

 

Community: I want the issues which have plagued the game for several years that you promised you would fix several years ago fixed.
DTG: Here's a Thomas the Tank Engine DLC or a livery pack or a scenario pack or whatever.
Community: I want you to stop with the yearly releases and fix the current release.
DTG: Here is TSW 6.
Community: I want you to fix the problems with the game you just released and fulfill your promises that you always break.
DTG: Here is another game entirely, Metro Rivals.

The cycle repeats every year. This game is in shambles.

 

Oh boy I cant wait till Train Sim Universe on UE5 where we have to start from scratch again buying DLC and such.

 

Sometimes I wonder if that's the only way these issues may be resolved.

Theyve clearly dug too big a hole with TSW so starting over May be the best option.

 

May I jump on to this one because you guys have hit a nerve with me when it comes to what DTG say or should we say for political purposes lack of. I call it quality of product and after sales performance.

Lies is a word but it can get messy so again to simply say DTG don’t deliver on what it says or promise to provide.

Now in a world of what’s said for something that’s not actually sold is a completely different story yet when it comes to past product releases and what was said at the time of these releases should come into play now as much as they did when said initially.
Here lays another point of what’s being said is to fix a core problem or one just as a good gesture or to improve the game in general.
What I mean is it’s not important or essential to core customers experience to implement a fix or implement.

So take the blur of wheels as example it’s not nice and DTG might of said it would fix them. It hasn’t but it’s not detrimental to how the core game works.

DTG in a legal sense only has the responsibility to fix bugs that hamper gameplay or mass performance for users.
Bugs are now except as part of any games sold within the UK market due to how games are made.
Development or devs don’t always play the games themselves to pick up bugs or issues so this is where we the consumer comes in to play.
Bugs or issues may only be found when released to market. Ie unforeseen bugs or issues in the systems out of the studio.

So bugs are part and parcel of games today and developers rely on data received by players reporting by the appropriate channels of reporting. This is so bugs can be traced and fixed as it allows devs to see what’s the system is saying about reporting status from PSN servers and their product now in market conditions. DTG will fix and update these issues immediately if a problem occurs with the first few hours of release and sometimes a few weeks later a larger fix or improvements.

Yet what about all the small issues or things that get missed during all the hype around new releases even new games.
As each year passes and why I agree with where your coming from is the rush of content but the lack of fixes or improvements to past content that was once a premier title but now forgotten along with the bugs or any changes that was made by DTG publicly yet never happened for what ever reason.
What I feel DTG still fail to understand is how damaging it can be if left. Damaging to customers confidence and to DTGs reputation.

Speaking on a personal level too the game and the company fails to see how it effects certain customers be treated as a customer lashing out and having a rant it shows people have had enough. If its affects people on such deep levels then something serious is going on.
Are you telling me a customers only way to be heard to publicly is to degrade themselves to get a product fixed.

Do customers feel so lost or even legally entitled to a product to be fixed are left in the dark by DTG because their latest title is out and the same thing happens all over again. The same formula of shiny new game but as the months go on and the more DLCs released come with new bugs once in open market. The fixes become to much and not beneficial to developers cost if spent more fixing them over making newer content for next years release.

It here I feel it becomes more personal to the user or customers because by now people see the trend and some even are no longer with TSW for that reason of pushing content for money over fix what they said and must be done for any particular product a customer is not happy with at time of release. It’s on this basis I also feel customers no longer feel as an individual person anymore because their opinion of product on complaining via customer support and it’s ticket system is not good for DTG to act so still nothing gets done.

Even years later in an apparently new game over the last. Where?. And where do consumers stand in a legal sense if a product is not working as described and does DTG have a say on 3rd parties products as I have most problems with them.
Who is responsible or liable for what. Who fixes or takes the hit on cost.

I’d have to say the customer if a company takes money yet leaves a product in poor condition. And it has to be the customer taking the hit for when a customer raises a ticket it’s the same generic message or measure to prevent any company spending time or money on the fix.

It’s not right and not when customers are being treated like fools while DTG flash a new game.
And I’m not being funny but don’t matter which way you cut it I can’t by a single product knowing DTG don’t care if I have wheels on my train or not. We not customers, just quick cash flows or ATM to DTG. Sell when it great but when things go wrong you don’t hear a peep.

They took the money and run, leaving customers feeling disillusioned by the experience while DTG go on like nothings happened.

I’m just left with no answer to anything. A Loyal customer and community member means nothing.

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Then come the people throwing tantrums because their DLC are stuck on an outdated platform and they have a choice between buying them all again or staying on TSW6. UE5 would be a huge rebuild and would probably take several years to perfect.

 

I think they have. Dug such a deep hole of bugs that it be much easier to start again with UA5.

Also keep adding so much from different developers and all the bugs or errors that come from being released to market is again probably not gonna help matters. Again a mess and why a fresh start could help. But building again only means more complex data so more bugs come with higher data or performance with UA5. The more complex the system the more likely hood of bugs.

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Was it this one?

 

Can't wait to see @angry#6825s reply to this post

 

That's a scratch pole for trains, they love it

 

Bugs have always been part and parcel of development because of the way they are made, i.e. by fallible humans thinking up solutions to logic problems, then manually typing them using complex computer languages. Bugs are more likely to be left in release builds nowadays because games have progressed from hundreds of lines of code to thousands or millions; because of this complexity, development is split between tens or hundreds of people working on separate bits then stitching them together; games, when not exclusive or particularly on PC, are made for hardware that is different from user to user, and again particularly on PC with many different conflicting drivers and peripherals connected, etc.; and because the internet exists, thus publishers know they can make money now and (hopefully) patch it later.

As for the point about developers not always playing the game themselves to pick up bugs: from my knowledge by proxy (I am not a developer, my brother is) I have not heard of a development situation where the team members don't play the game themselves. Of all the projects I have been aware of, developers do always play their own games as they go along, and are always picking up on and fixing bugs as they go, every single day, most of which you the player will never know existed. It would be really impossible not to play and test as they go along.

But of course bugs will make it into release builds, for reasons already mentioned. Sometimes everything, or almost everything, is working on the day a build has to go for mastering, then when it's put together by the build machines something goes awry because someone out of 400 people decided to tweak something that affected another bit of code inadvertently and unexpectedly. But it's too late. The deadline is set. But they will already be working on fixes while it makes its way to mastering and finally stores.

 

Imagine the days of once the product was out the door, that was it, a la NES/SNES/N64/SEGA equivalent games.

Obviously the coding was a lot simpler, but they still must of done a lot more stress testing, because if a game breaking bug cropped up after launch, that was basically game over.

The ability to be able to patch everything has lowered standards of pre-release testing considerably I imagine, because you always have that safety net.

Which is great, but also leads to some unfinished stuff that really was not ready at the time of release being pushed out.

 

There are a lot of games that released in poor states in the past few years, but I'm not sure it can really be blamed on the ability to patch games. There are so many recent games that were completely fine on release, and of course plenty of games released before patches became common that had major issues. Gran Turismo 2 was in a pretty bad state when it first released, and a large chunk of the game had to be cut to save time.

 

I’m waiting for some TOD4 treatment

 

I’m still waiting for that TFW 150 update that was supposed to come “at launch”.

 

Oh, there were still a few quite infamous ones!
If you ever plan on playing Battletoads for the NES with a friend be sure to get the PAL release! Level 11 is literally impossible otherwise!

 

It probably will somehow still use the old Dostos and 143s and both will still have no sounds worth to be called sounds. xD

 

And building assets from Rail Simulator (2008)...

 

No, the objects from Rail Simulator (2008) would be too good for us.
I think they would use MSTS objects.

 

Also they said at when tsw5 came out, the 377/2 would layer on to lbn

 

I think I prefer th TFW150 sounds than the ones they recorded for the GWR one... What're your thoughts on that? I was proper disappointed.

 

I think both have flaws, but the GWR one comes out on top for me, no other reason than the fact that the running sounds have some depth & rumble to them.

A lot of trains in TSW feel almost weightless on the tracks, but the 153 & GWR 150 are 2 of the few exceptions to that rule IMO.

 

That's what I thought when TSW was released. They are starting fresh, so they will not make the same mistakes.
Look where we are now.

 

Train Sim World is now as old as Train Simulator Classic was when Train Sim World released...

 

I loved this games when I started with TSW 2, then 3 on PlayStation, but I started noticing the bugs and the lack resolution by DTG. Then 4 came and the editor so I switched to PC and purchased all my DLC again... But I couldn't get to grips with the editor and I was having crashes and couldn't find my files, so I gave up on it...
When 5 came along I hoped it was going to improve and we'd get some resolution to the problems. Alas, they got worse with the performance issues, micro stutters and FPS drops. I've slowly lost the desire to play the game.

I gave it one last shot with the starter version of 6, and I bought a route that was on sale. It lagged so bad, and that was just the route introduction tutorial...
I gave it a chance though, and tried the same route on 5, it lagged but not as bad, I then went back and tried 6 again, and it still lagged way more than 5.... So nothing to do with the data cache or anything, the games just sucks.

So I'm not buying 6 and 5 is a dead game to DTG... I've lost interest in it all now. Which is a shame, I own almost all the DLC until WCML came out. I can't change anything and DTG clearly have other priorities, so I'll leave it here. I've invested a lot money supporting a game that isn't giving back IMO.

To add, my rig is only a few years old, i9 with a 6700XT GPU, 32GB RAM and NVME SSD...

 

Well said! I feel the same and am using TRAINZ22 and TSC much more than TSW6. Pretty sad since both are old games. The next version of TRAINZ is supposed to have some great new features and game engine updates that I feel will make it superior to TSW6. I am really hoping Auran/N3V delivers on them.

 

Trainz will never compete with TSW6 or TSC until you can set up proper timetabled runs for the player and have the AI sort out the routing for you. The game is also awash with ancient content and too many locos are aliased to old cabs and sounds. It’s only saving grace is the relatively easy to use route editor. In terms of radical changes, I fear N3V have even less “engineering” resources than DTG and previous reissues of the game have been little more than the emperor’s new clothes. It seems the only thing N3V are interested now is trying to hook people into their Netflix subscription model.

 

I recently bought Trainz22 while it was on sale... I've yet to try it though. I should give it a go, thanks

 

I keep looking at Trainz, especially the UK "retro" routes but as alluded to by Vern it needs a rethink in the way "sessions" are set up. Uf Trainz had service mode like TSW I think it would get close to being competitive.

 

It’s stupid really because you can set up incredibly complex things with AI trains, but as soon as you move to take over the train yourself all that vanishes. Leaving a glorified free roam and the driver also having to set the route for themselves. Really no better than Trainz UTC in 2001/2.

 

OUCH !!! i felt that dagger bury itself in my chest .

The Living Railroad passenger function looks promising, alongside the TLR freight function.
But at the moment it is in beta and only to Trainz Plus subscribers.

 

Interlocking Towers are your friend Vern. Create your own paths, no more clicking junctions.
TLR also creates it's own paths and you can create your own or modify the default ones.

 

LOL, everybody is entitled to their opinion. I run US freight only and could care less about timetables. TSW is nothing but awash of ancient content as well with re-used power aliased to old cabs! The payware one can purchase with Trainz such as Jointed Rail and RR Mods is far superior to anything TSW offers. The route editor in Trainz is also far superior to the useless one included in TSW. At least N3V is interested in improving the game engine and adding new features which is more than I can say for DTG. I suggest you have a look at the Trainz Roadmap.

 

I’ve tried Trainz a few times and never liked how the game looks or how it plays. It’s still fundamentally a train set game, and that’s where Trainz does best even now.

 

Everybody has their own likes and dislikes. LOL, it's no more of a train set game than TSW.

 

Thanks for expanding and sharing on the subject of coding/ programming. With all the recent ups and downs Ive experienced myself and then the different stories heard here a there I thought I’d be wise to take some time delving deeper into a devs world.

It’s not something everyone is fully aware when it comes passing opinions, so like anything I feel it’s best to have some understanding before throwing the dirt so to speak. Yet I’ve always been aware of how much coding goes into making games like this and why I am quite lenient when DTG encounters issues of new releases. Birmingham to Crewe release would be a perfect example of this, and the Manchester Airport DLC route. I can except this is how the ball rolls time to time. Especially using new developers for the first time.
A leaning curve for all.

Now from what I have read recently that yes you’re correct about devs playing games. But that’s in the ideal world.
A world where time don’t mean money and devs have all the time in the world.
That’s not a devs world or so I’m led to believe on further research.
In fact reminds me of a traffic planner.
Not a nine to five job and where devs have to much work load hardly any rest and unpaid, under appreciated.
Long hours and when things go wrong could mean more time at work.
All this can result in staff being burnt out, and small mistakes making it to markets.
And if a small team at DTG is responsible for being here threre and every where is to much of a work demand on the DTG staff right now.
Because the more that is going wrong and add more work pressure for new releases, road maps and all the promotional material likes of DTG Harry and Alex etc seems like they never get any rest so would this be a problem when we hear so much being said in haste but time will not allow and so things get changed.

The time just isn’t there to go messing around with years of coding set up like a house of cards. Move one and the whole lot falls.

So again thanks for shearing because I’d like to understand more about the world of programming etc, and what it must be like for the teams at DTG. And going back to us the customer, I find most of the faults I have are small, yet do amount up along with the approach with content releases adds fear of more bugs interfering with a good game. Why because as we’ve now learned and established is to many chiefs spoil the broth.

And because of that are we the customers left with a foul taste in their mouths.
Plus more importantly is the yearly release dates to close, are the teams able to keep such passion for their own products if again it’s just never ending for them. And why we see so much said or even promised yet again the time just isn’t there and so are things being rushed without much play time in development testing, meaning quality starts to slide which makes DTG lives harder to put right the more goes wrong over time. It’s too much of the customers to deal with and DTG staff.

Something must be going wrong with communication, like everyone is running around like headless chickens rushing for a fix here and patch there so they can crack on with new products that bring the money in.

But I see that as the main problem for DTG and us the consumer. That circle of pumping out new products, then the issues, some left unfixed, then some words said yet nothing happens. And before we know it the new title is out and the cycle continues.
All I feel that cycle is doing is making DTG staff life’s hard, and each year driving away loyal customers that get fed up of that trend.
Be what is said and what’s gets seen etc. And the small issues that are just lazy not a massive coding error in these add on packs etc.
Nothing gets fixed on that front yet puts me as a customer of buying if DTG don’t have to time to fix things because all the teams are told now is sell sell sell because after 6 years it’s all I’ve got use to now.

Thus what gives in the end. DTG and this endless cycle or a customer who one days says enough is enough.
Stop treating us like beta testers or ATM machines and more like customers.
And on the flip side to that are we seeing so many mistakes be little or small all because the teams at DTG are being overwhelmed with work. I can never say for sure yet as an outsider looking in I do feel like some staff members are putting are lot of work and personal time in what we are seeing. It must be a lot and so I can’t help feel as much as this thread you or I be a problem for DTG I always feel transparency is key towards a better understanding for all.

I’ve leant it’s not about aimlessly pointing fingers at people or issues but rather seeing things from a different perspective.
Be for a change in a community situation or feedback for game improvements what ever the case may be I always say it’s humans where talking about. Yes they make mistakes yet like us are Human too.

For right now can this forum deal with all this negativity, especially for some when they look outside.
So yes, I agree with what you say and why I’ve been reading up on the matters so I am able to see all this from a different perspective for the purpose of either the discussion thread or for constructive criticism of DTG methods or approach on selling over customer experience or product satisfaction.

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Good point there. Are Devs relying on that safety net as you put it.

✌.

 

Don't be to sure on this because unreal 5 has alot of cool features,but I'm sure it will give DTG it's own set of problems, They have admitted it's another engine with it's own learning curve,so remains to be seen Iam afraid

 

It is how it is... I wouldn't be as harsh as to call DTG names etc.
But what irks me a bit is lack of backward fixing, lack of support for consoles...
I have seen some of the passion and quality thinking behind the scenes in the dev videos and with Matt,
it is nowhere near the level of huge corporate FU to customers like Lego with their low cost approach: "We've released the most expensive lego set, but having it exclusive and hi-quality minifigs will be too expensive".

My main issues with DTG are their patchwork method with upgrading through numbered releases, while moving with new stuff with new issues, while not really resolving the past issues... but I do commend them for releasing the core sim for free, albeit for limited time.

My biggest issue is anti-user compatibility and quality of life approach on PS5. I have bought the canadian Oakwille, Somersett or Peninsula corridor in the past when it was brand new, but I don't have these DLCs available on TSW6???
I bought the expensive DLCs, many for full prices, prices that rival standalone titles and I am cut out of it?
That's grinding my gears a lot! More than forgotten tentpole in the middle of the track.
Is there any solution for this?

Not to mention, why is the DLC available for both last gen and current gen downloading for both, wasting my HDD space, instead of me being able to choose the version? I have to clean it up manually unless I am quick and can the PS4 versions during downloading.
Not to mention missing updates that are available on other systems.

I understand that it will mean less traction and money, but I am fan of quality instead of quantity.
To be fair, except for some redlights and scenario errors with few routes, I haven't experienced any dealbreaking issues so far since TSW 1, except for North London Line, which has some weird track alignments and texture issues still.