For us, it would be very beneficial to understand exactly how each loco is set up to work, what is functional/what is not and what is the purpose of every button and switch throughout the entire train etc, as not everyone in the community has a deep in-depth knowledge of every train ever built (some do seem to though!) and this would be really helpful I think. And for them, it would act as a form of QC, as going through all features in detail to explain how they work would flag up internally anything that actually did not work as intended before releasing. Would also make bug reporting a lot more efficient, as we would have a reference for anything we came across. Right now, you never quite know if you have uncovered a genuine bug, or if it was designed like that, or is just a cosmetic feature with no actual purpose. Plus it's always just 'nice' to have a manual, gives the product a slightly more classy feeling, as if the designers have really gone the extra mile. I often see these Armstrong Powerhouse products for TSC and they all seem to have these detailed manuals, as well as all sorts of other info included that leaves little room for ambiguity or confusion and I so wish that the TSW devs would provide something similar!
I think they used to do this, at one point. Although if they did, I don't think they went into great detail.
Yeah it says alot about the game when you have to resort to TSC manuals to figure out certain processes for rolling stock.
Most of them had plenty of detail, check the Class 31 manual as an example - Train_Sim_World_BR_Class_31_Driver's_Manual_-_EN.pdf As they exploit the ability of TSW to model the complexities of operating the locos and units a manual is really a must have to get the best out of them.
Well, most people don't read manuals even if they have to rtfm. Also discovering a train and found out how things are working is fun for me. If I can't move a train, I start the trainings module.
The training modules are in my experience woefully inadequate, a bare minimum of effort expended in their creation by DTG as a tick box exercise.
The point is, nobody reads the manuals and even if they do, do you remember it all when driving? You can do the basic things without a manual, but for a few things it would be very helpful to have one.
Years ago in earlier versions of tsw ,training modules had a bit more , such as recovery from emergency stops . This was quite useful as lots of trains have different recovery techniques. I agree it is the bare minimum now.
I agree. In most cases, they're so basic as to be pretty useless. For instance they usually say nothing about safety systems and how to enable them. That's why I rarely visit the Training Center.
I remember back when I was first getting into TSW and I got completely stuck on a Clinchfield service, and was quite pleased with myself when I figured out why something wasn't working by literally going to a repository of pdf scans of classic EMD engineer's manuals and downloading one for the SD40, which had the precise information I needed which DTG had not provided.
A model for a manual would be the version provided by Searchlight simulations for their TSC Ac4400. If a small developer can do it, DTG has no excuse.
Most of them amount to once or twice around the Training Centre, with exhortations about coasting and forcing on the coloured stop track markers. Very little to nothing about unique features of the traction and certainly no safety system walkthrough. The other disadvantage over a proper manual or at least a pdf sheet, is that you can have that open in another window or on a tablet if you forget something or need to refer to it, rather than having to rerun the tutorial. TBH, not including even a simple manual is not only lazy, also demonstrates a lack of pride and finishing polish by the DLC authors in their product.
Also, the training modules are repetitive. The only difference is if the train has different controls (ie an 87 compared to a 158), other than that the tutorial is the same.
As the author of a few manuals for Lukas' team at Train Sim Germany, I sadly have to agree with this one. The manuals that are there do add value to a route or loco DLC/pack, that is true, but it is also true that there is a wide array of players who do not read the manuals. The one I did for the 101 Expert has been useful for those who used it, and I have recently completed an update in which I also make navigation a bit easier for finding the fault translation/instructions to correct it. That being said, across a few servers, I have had several people ask questions which are *all* answered in the manual. That is despite the tutorials actually mentioning it, as well as the official streams and several influencers also showcasing it. I don't know if there is much we can do to improve their visibility to be honest, they are only really visible to those who spend a lot more time in communities online.
Just out of interest.... Does writing the manuals force you to go through the train and check everything works as intended? For example, would you check all the safety systems work and that the brake demands are all recoverable from and that all the light settings work and display as intended etc. when adding the info to the manual? thanks
That's part of the testing I do to understand the trains I am writing a manual for, with the help of devs/drivers to back this up. The most important thing for me when I write such manuals is to understand the train to be able to explain it.
Yes, great. So this is why I started the thread. I am thinking that if ALL content went through this process, then one of the knock on effects would be that far less bugs would get through. As a really basic example, the 802 released with the Riviera route has a DRA that, once set, you cannot recover from and that is the end of the run. This is such a simple thing to check and I imagine this is something that if you are writing the manual you see and flag up?
I'm gonna assume that it heavily depends on who writes it. And whilst I do test and flag if I find that something does not work the way it was previously described to me, bug fixing and QA in general is a fair bit more complicated. I don't know the history of this particular issue so what I'm saying is purely hypothetical, though it is not uncommon for such issues to not be there in the first place and appear at a later date, or sometimes even appear when publishing a build publicly. We can never be too sure, sometimes bugs or issues that have not been noticed before can just appear. For the prior manuals that were once written by DTG, I can only really assume that they were more meant as a product presentation and description which lists what should be there and interactable and ease you into the game especially if you are playing it for the first time. The level of understanding to write something like that does not need to be as deep in that case. It ultimately depends on who writes what, I think. That being said, even making a manual like the ones made in-house by DTG would have been quite a bit of work, which if it was not very popular/heavily used, probably does not justify the costs and man-hours when this basic process can be put into in-game tutorials. Again, this is all speculation on my end so, I'm sorry of some of what I said isn't 100% accurate, that is just the best understanding I can get from the situation.
Most locomotives these days don't require a manual to understand how they operate. But for older locomotives, it's essential. I have some questions about the BR294.
RTFM does apply in some cases, but then, who reads manuals with dozens a pages when everything is labeled in the HUD and helpful bubbles pop up? Only in properly set up DLC of course ... Obviously, labeled switches to switch on the hotplate or the air conditioner are quite obvious. But the proper sequence to initiate a cold start is not, and when the casual player doesn't bother to play the tutorials, will he bother to RTFM playing on console without a pdf reader?
But it would eat into the profits, think of the poor shareholders! Recently, I miss manuals more and more as I keep running into issues like not knowing how to reset a stuck train, or the proper handling of various faults that appear despite having turned them off on day 1.
Exactly and true. Providing a good manual takes knowledge, writing skill and requires proof reading to correct any spelling or grammar. Manuals cost time and money and detract from profits, and when nobody does a RTFM, are considered a waste of time and money. Are there any legal requirements for 'complicated products' to have a comprehensible manual? Computer games and DLC? Not some machine translation from Chinese you'll find in your cheaply acquired consumer devices at your local outlet?
Ironically, I believe someone has already done that on this very forum. Maybe without the pin, but I'm fairly sure a thread already exists.
I love manuals. I'm pretty sure the reason for my Class 08 fondness is having to resort to the posted manual to get it moving early on and feeling proud of my research.
TBF, Searchlight Simulations has the advantage that a lot of their team work on actual Class 1 railroad IRL, so they have easier access to manuals for more modern locomotives than the general public, though of course older locos are free game as there are plenty floating around on the free market like Ebay, though some newer ones can appear on the market like the AC44, as seen here with one for the Southern Pacific units.
